5160 edge retention

[Cobalt]

If Buck had continued making the 110 in 154cm, ATS34 or BG42, most of this forum wold own one. I would own a few. My 110 in 420 was possible the worst edge holding in a knife I have ever encountered. ANd it would not take a keen edge.

 

[Duane Sanders]

Thing about Duane is, he is using a very limited experience with other peoples hard to sharpen and brittle knives and painting every modern super steel as the same.


As you know blanket statements with knife steels are almost always wrong unless the statement is "all modern knife steels are metal" lol

I'm with you on the different purposes for different steels and geometry and what fits one person may not be right for the next guy.

That said, denying factual scientific evidence is ignorant, and closed minded.

you can tell everyone how very limited it is as much as you want. Such opinions were developed over a long period of time. Just because it's summed up in one post means nothing to you, so keep that to yourself. In this case you are in a position to learn something. Take advantage of this chance to learn.

Your science reasoning is flawed. Matching science to steel and knife performance is like telling someone their car will always get the exact mileage on the sticker when it was new. The sticker is science, what you get on the road is fact.

 

[shinyedges]

Ok Duane, you have it all figured out. :thumbdn:

you can tell everyone how very limited it is as much as you want. Such opinions were developed over a long period of time. Just because it's summed up in one post means nothing to you, so keep that to yourself. In this case you are in a position to learn something. Take advantage of this chance to learn.

Your science reasoning is flawed. Matching science to steel and knife performance is like telling someone their car will always get the exact mileage on the sticker when it was new. The sticker is science, what you get on the road is fact.

 

[Ankerson]

If Buck had continued making the 110 in 154cm, ATS34 or BG42, most of this forum wold own one. I would own a few. My 110 in 420 was possible the worst edge holding in a knife I have ever encountered. ANd it would not take a keen edge.

I have had my far share of them too over the years, nothing really to get excited about.

Got my 1st one when I was 12, I am 50 now.....

 

[Darrin Sanders]

I'm a knifemaker but what I'm about to post comes from my experience as a knife USER. When I use a new steel I make a test knife out of it and actually carry and use it until I know its strengths and weaknesses. I've carried them all from simple steels like 5160, to tool steels like O1, A2, etc., to high Vanadium CPM steels.
I'm here to tell you that 5160 just isn't that much tougher in actual use than A-11/10V, especially in a small to medium sized knife. It may look like it on paper but it just isn't in real world use. I've personally driven an A-11 blade through cross grain hard Maple with no damage to the edge, through cross grain Osage Orange with no damage to the edge, & finally through a 3/4" diameter Axis stag antler. That piece of antler was close to the tip and didn't even have a vein in it and the only damage was a small shiny spot. This was done with the litter mate to Jim's "box cutter". They were made from the same bar of steel, heat treated side by side in my furnace, and were ground and finished on the same day.
Sharpening. I sharpen these steels the same way I sharpen anything else with no problem. I'll admit that I don't use a "river rock" but I don't have expensive diamond plates either. What I'm trying to say is that anyone with any decent sharpening equip. & skill can sharpen these steels with very little problem. There are people who can't sharpen a knife to save their life and the knife or sharpening equip. makes no difference to people in this category.
As far as edge holding goes, I would say that I could EDC a 5160 knife for approx. 4-5 days before I'd need to sharpen it. My S35VN EDC extends that to 2-3 months. I can carry my 10V knife for 6-7 months before it even needs a touch up. When I carry these knives, I don't baby them, I cut whatever I need to cut and have no problems.
Keep in mind that all this is just MY experience. Your mileage may vary greatly.

 

[singularity35]

Science according to Boris....ehhh Duane...

Everybody wrong, he's right.

 

[shinyedges]

He does have that in common with ol' Boris...

maybe.. Na ..couldnt be lol just goes to show you there are LOTS of the same kind of people out there.

Science according to Boris....ehhh Duane...

Everybody wrong, he's right.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

He does have that in common with ol' Boris...

maybe.. Na ..couldnt be lol just goes to show you there are LOTS of the same kind of people out there.

It's authentically difficult to accept evidence that runs counter to what you want to believe. That's one of the reasons the scientific method may be the most important idea we've come up with as a species. It helps us find what is true regardless of belief.

 

[singularity35]

It's authentically difficult to accept evidence that runs counter to what you want to believe. That's one of the reasons the scientific method may be the most important idea we've come up with as a species. It helps us find what is true regardless of belief.

Agreed. That is why superstition is so dear to many people's hearts. No matter what the evidence to the contrary, it's almost like life and death when faced with the possibility of turning your back on your dearly held beliefs.

 

[shinyedges]

Agreed,

For some reason, I always like to hope people can change and have their eyes opened so to speak but many times a closed mind remains that way.

It's authentically difficult to accept evidence that runs counter to what you want to believe. That's one of the reasons the scientific method may be the most important idea we've come up with as a species. It helps us find what is true regardless of belief.

 

[shinyedges]

Hey I posted at 9:09 first, I know it and refuse to believe otherwise I don't care what you say or that your post poped up ahead of mine

Agreed. That is why superstition is so dear to many people's hearts. No matter what the evidence to the contrary, it's almost like life and death when faced with the possibility of turning your back on your dearly held beliefs.

 

[singularity35]

Hey I posted at 9:09 first, I know it and refuse to believe otherwise I don't care what you say or that your post poped up ahead of mine

haha...

 

[Duane Sanders]

Shinyedges, you just can't grasp it. Going back to the mileage on the window sticker. My wife's car gets 32.5mpg average on the highway for her. When I drive it the car gets 38mpg average. She has been through four sets of 50,000 mile tires in the first 100,000 miles of the car and I have changed the brakes completely on it three times in 112,000 miles. The last set of 50,000 mile tires on my truck that does much more work than her car lasted me 60,000 miles. I let her drive the truck for a week and the brakes had 20,000 miles of my drive style left on them. In one week the brakes were done.

Are you going to tell me the science says the car has 200,000+ miles on it based on the scientifically stated miles the tires will get and number of sets its been through? That's what science says. Has to be 200K plus on the car then, there is no way around it.

Some of you need to set the science down. It might work for you but I'm just letting you know science just might disappoint you some day so don't be too upset when it does, and it will.

 

[singularity35]

Shinyedges, you just can't grasp it. Going back to the mileage on the window sticker. My wife's car gets 32.5mpg average on the highway for her. When I drive it the car gets 38mpg average. She has been through four sets of 50,000 mile tires in the first 100,000 miles of the car and I have changed the brakes completely on it three times in 112,000 miles. The last set of 50,000 mile tires on my truck that does much more work than her car lasted me 60,000 miles. I let her drive the truck for a week and the brakes had 20,000 miles of my drive style left on them. In one week the brakes were done.

Are you going to tell me the science says the car has 200,000+ miles on it based on the scientifically stated miles the tires will get and number of sets its been through? That's what science says. Has to be 200K plus on the car then, there is no way around it.

Some of you need to set the science down. It might work for you but I'm just letting you know science just might disappoint you some day so don't be too upset when it does, and it will.

Yep, he's right. Everybody is wrong....:thumbdn:

This guy thinks that nobody except him has used 5160 and that we're all just quoting the scientific results....

 

[bodog]

Shinyedges, you just can't grasp it. Going back to the mileage on the window sticker. My wife's car gets 32.5mpg average on the highway for her. When I drive it the car gets 38mpg average. She has been through four sets of 50,000 mile tires in the first 100,000 miles of the car and I have changed the brakes completely on it three times in 112,000 miles. The last set of 50,000 mile tires on my truck that does much more work than her car lasted me 60,000 miles. I let her drive the truck for a week and the brakes had 20,000 miles of my drive style left on them. In one week the brakes were done.

Are you going to tell me the science says the car has 200,000+ miles on it based on the scientifically stated miles the tires will get and number of sets its been through? That's what science says. Has to be 200K plus on the car then, there is no way around it.

Some of you need to set the science down. It might work for you but I'm just letting you know science just might disappoint you some day so don't be too upset when it does, and it will.

Wait, what?

sci·ence
ˈsīəns/Submit
noun
the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.


So you're saying intellectual and practical study of the structure and properties of knife steels through observation and experimentation will let us down? Please, tell me more about how your practical observations of brakes and tires let you down...

 

[shinyedges]

Your analogy is not correlating to the topic.

Particle steel technology is not going to vary greatly between users when properly heat treated. Whether you use the knife or colonel sanders from KFC uses the knife, the composition and grain structure along with carbide content, distribution, and size will be the same.

Further more , mileage in a vehicle is dependent on a variety of factors one of which is the driver or user if you will. Once a knife is properly heat treated it becomes user indiscriminate in that all of its attributes and qualities are in place.

The advancement in metallurgy has brought finer grain structure, more evenly distribution of carbides and more even sized carbides along with many other benefits. Simple spring steels simply don't have the capabilities of modern steels.

Shinyedges, you just can't grasp it. Going back to the mileage on the window sticker. My wife's car gets 32.5mpg average on the highway for her. When I drive it the car gets 38mpg average. She has been through four sets of 50,000 mile tires in the first 100,000 miles of the car and I have changed the brakes completely on it three times in 112,000 miles. The last set of 50,000 mile tires on my truck that does much more work than her car lasted me 60,000 miles. I let her drive the truck for a week and the brakes had 20,000 miles of my drive style left on them. In one week the brakes were done.

Are you going to tell me the science says the car has 200,000+ miles on it based on the scientifically stated miles the tires will get and number of sets its been through? That's what science says. Has to be 200K plus on the car then, there is no way around it.

Some of you need to set the science down. It might work for you but I'm just letting you know science just might disappoint you some day so don't be too upset when it does, and it will.

 

[bodog]

Duane, seriously, chill out with what you're talking about. If what you're saying has no merit with anyone, anywhere, it's time to give some pause and consider that you may not know what you're talking about. Your experience lies with soft carbon steels and soft 420HC. There's nothing wrong with that but there is a whole world (seriously) of steels that you don't know about. Hell, most here on this forum are babes in the woods when it comes to metallurgy. Most people speaking to you are only sharing what they've either seen for themselves using other classes of steels or from fairly solid amateur research into the stuff. Are you a paid spokesman for Buck? What's the deal? Your ego and pride are getting in the way of people trying to help you understand some of this stuff.

If you like easy to sharpen, soft steel, that's cool. If you haven't tried anything else then please don't speak about how it's the best. If it works for you, then awesome. But please realize that many others talking to you on this forum have played with the same knives you're talking about and have found them somewhat outdated and outclassed. That's just the truth of it man.

 

[singularity35]

Duane, seriously, chill out with what you're talking about. If what you're saying has no merit with anyone, anywhere, it's time to give some pause and consider that you may not know what you're talking about. Your experience lies with soft carbon steels and soft 420HC. There's nothing wrong with that but there is a whole world (seriously) of steels that you don't know about. Hell, most here on this forum are babes in the woods when it comes to metallurgy. Most people speaking to you are only sharing what they've either seen for themselves using other classes of steels or from fairly solid amateur research into the stuff. Are you a paid spokesman for Buck? What's the deal? Your ego and pride are getting in the way of people trying to help you understand some of this stuff.

If you like easy to sharpen, soft steel, that's cool. If you haven't tried anything else then please don't speak about how it's the best. If it works for you, then awesome. But please realize that many others talking to you on this forum have played with the same knives you're talking about and have found them somewhat outdated and outclassed. That's just the truth of it man.

No because brakes and tires and windshield stickers....

 

[shinyedges]

I wrote almost the exact post to Duane before.

I don't know if he thinks because he used low rc spring steel he has an accurate amount of information to judge all steels or what, but you can lead a horse to water but... well you know the rest.


Like I said earlier I have a reasonably decent number of steels I've used under my belt at around 15 different steels. Some guys on here outright dwarf that number and have been steel nuts longer than I have.

I'm just trying to help the dude. I'm no expert though.

Duane, seriously, chill out with what you're talking about. If what you're saying has no merit with anyone, anywhere, it's time to give some pause and consider that you may not know what you're talking about. Your experience lies with soft carbon steels and soft 420HC. There's nothing wrong with that but there is a whole world (seriously) of steels that you don't know about. Hell, most here on this forum are babes in the woods when it comes to metallurgy. Most people speaking to you are only sharing what they've either seen for themselves using other classes of steels or from fairly solid amateur research into the stuff. Are you a paid spokesman for Buck? What's the deal? Your ego and pride are getting in the way of people trying to help you understand some of this stuff.

If you like easy to sharpen, soft steel, that's cool. If you haven't tried anything else then please don't speak about how it's the best. If it works for you, then awesome. But please realize that many others talking to you on this forum have played with the same knives you're talking about and have found them somewhat outdated and outclassed. That's just the truth of it man.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Shinyedges, you just can't grasp it. Going back to the mileage on the window sticker. My wife's car gets 32.5mpg average on the highway for her. When I drive it the car gets 38mpg average. She has been through four sets of 50,000 mile tires in the first 100,000 miles of the car and I have changed the brakes completely on it three times in 112,000 miles. The last set of 50,000 mile tires on my truck that does much more work than her car lasted me 60,000 miles. I let her drive the truck for a week and the brakes had 20,000 miles of my drive style left on them. In one week the brakes were done.

Are you going to tell me the science says the car has 200,000+ miles on it based on the scientifically stated miles the tires will get and number of sets its been through? That's what science says. Has to be 200K plus on the car then, there is no way around it.

Some of you need to set the science down. It might work for you but I'm just letting you know science just might disappoint you some day so don't be too upset when it does, and it will.

Actually, what you're doing when comparing the lifespan of the tires with different people driving is rudimentary science. You have an average estimate of how long the tires should last and you have a variable in the driving habits of the two people in question. We can draw a fairly certain conclusion that your wife brakes and accelerates much more aggressively than you do because we know those things can have a profound effect on the life of tires. There are still too many variables to be totally certain about our conclusion, but given time and money we could isolate those and figure out exactly which habits are hardest on the tires and which ones extend their life the most. We could even figure out the standard deviation of how much longer your tires lasted with a big enough sample size.

We can apply the same approach to knives and steels. Mr. Sanders mentioned a 5160 blade would last him 4-5 days before touching up. On a fairly regular work day I pretty much promise I would kill the edge on it by the end of the day. That's a situation that's actually analogous to what you described.