When you said that I thought how a proud axe mimics a guy in the bush needing a handle in a pinch and thus uses a stick driving it right through the eye and out the end - and away he goes. Are we back to the idea of lumberjack/timber-man/bushcraft romanticism?! Perhaps fantasy is more appropriate.
6lb axe / RIVETING DISCUSSION ON PROUD HAFTS!!
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When you said that I thought how a proud axe mimics a guy in the bush needing a handle in a pinch and thus uses a stick driving it right through the eye and out the end - and away he goes. Are we back to the idea of lumberjack/timber-man/bushcraft romanticism?! Perhaps fantasy is more appropriate.
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I think you get more wedge in by initially leaving the tongue proud about a 1/4" and then drive the wedge. That way the tongue walls, by expanding some, help guide the wedge in and shave less off the sides of the wedge as you drive it in.
This is the only membership/ subscription i pay for and I appreciate everyone here sharing their thoughts and ideas. And no I'm not drunk, just wanted to say that. Haha.
Thanks Josh I will be hanging the Elwell just like this and then cutting it flush and sanding it down. I don't have a belt sander or anything like that do you think if I held it to my bench grinder it would shave off the excess appropriately? I'd hate to find out it destroys the top. Otherwise it will be hand sanding for me.
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I use a coping saw and an orbital sander personally. The coping saw doesn't leave that many marks believe it or not. So you can cut it and then hand sand and leave the top looking pretty good instead of shiny if you desire. Look forward to seeing your Elwell hung!
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I don't worry about the corner created by the grinder. It couldn't hurt to knock it off as you describe. It's a good idea. Might save the files a little.
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I prefer to leave the haft proud by 1/4". I think there's something to be gained by having the wide swelled wood above the eye. Here in western Washington we have very damp winters and very dry summers. The proud hung axe holds up better. I haven't had a problem splitting with a proud haft. The crack is as wide as the axe and the haft is narrower.
Most of my splitting the past 5 years has been done with my 5 pound Plumb rafting axe. The protruding haft has never been an issue. I occasionally split with a smaller axe and have never had a problem with protruding hafts on those.
That is a very sensible and logical point. Thanks for sharing! and I too have very similar seasons.
Dare I say, there would be some guys out there that have only swung flush axes and that's all they know. Their allegiance to the flush axe is based purely on assumption that if there were to be proud wood on top it would be totally mangled.
Come to think of it you don't really see pictures of axes, whether on forums or ebay or elsewhere, with smashed up proud haft tongues?
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I just wanted to add that when i started hanging axes I left the tongue proud. I've got probably ten or twelve that way. And they've held up fine. Never, in these discussions, have i said it was inferior just unnecessary in my opinion. I have a lot of respect for SP and all the other guys on here and far be it from me to insinuate they are doing it wrong. I've simply been explaining my preference. Plus i think it looks better. But I'm butting out now.
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Yes, I also bevel the edge with a utility knife to protect it.
I do this as well. Not dome shaped in my case, but I bevel the edge so it's not likely to chip.
David Martin
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Yankee Josh
, don't leave. You have a good sense of humor which is needed here. Good photos. I have hit the proud portion of one haft I set on my Hults while splitting. Which started a crack. So, I cut it down further and covered it with epoxy and kept using it. It's held up so far. On this Emory oak I use all my axes and tools for splitting and limb work.
They have to perform well. I work to get the wood in the barn and use them for tree trimming and fence / brush clearing.
If the haft is not sound / cured I can easily tear it up. DM
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I am enjoying this conversation. And I hope we can always agree to disagree. The problem with the proud haft and splitting is twofold:
First, what wood you are splitting matters a great deal. Lets take the example of Emory oak. Oak, and many other species, do not split clean. They leave many fibers hanging the stick together. While it is true that "the crack is as wide as the axe and the haft is narrower" The problem is that on wood that hangs together the sharp fibers still holding eat at the haft on each repetitive swing trying to finish the split. I wish I could show you a picture of my favorite splitting axe. I rehung it with a hand made, air dried, riven, shagbark hickory haft of vertical grain sap wood about 1973. Up until recently, I have heated exclusively with wood. So the history of my splitting axe is; 10 yrs with 6 cords per in VA, 3 yrs with 3 cords in NC , 10 yrs with 12 cords in CO, and 25 yrs with 12 cords in MT. The above mentioned haft, under the eye, is now eaten about half way thru from the problem I mentioned. There is no damage to the top of the haft because it is cut flush. I still use it for a little splitting now and then, because I still trust it. And none of the eaten haft damage was due to over strikes. If you are interested, you might be able to see this axe haft in action splitting in the last part of the axe to grind video, near the very end when I split some fire wood.
Second, most of the axes I see pictures of with proud hafts are way too tall without beveled edges.
First, what wood you are splitting matters a great deal. Lets take the example of Emory oak. Oak, and many other species, do not split clean. They leave many fibers hanging the stick together. While it is true that "the crack is as wide as the axe and the haft is narrower" The problem is that on wood that hangs together the sharp fibers still holding eat at the haft on each repetitive swing trying to finish the split. I wish I could show you a picture of my favorite splitting axe. I rehung it with a hand made, air dried, riven, shagbark hickory haft of vertical grain sap wood about 1973. Up until recently, I have heated exclusively with wood. So the history of my splitting axe is; 10 yrs with 6 cords per in VA, 3 yrs with 3 cords in NC , 10 yrs with 12 cords in CO, and 25 yrs with 12 cords in MT. The above mentioned haft, under the eye, is now eaten about half way thru from the problem I mentioned. There is no damage to the top of the haft because it is cut flush. I still use it for a little splitting now and then, because I still trust it. And none of the eaten haft damage was due to over strikes. If you are interested, you might be able to see this axe haft in action splitting in the last part of the axe to grind video, near the very end when I split some fire wood.
Second, most of the axes I see pictures of with proud hafts are way too tall without beveled edges.
If you are not splitting wood with your axe, does the flushness really matter? Also, you're right, most proud hafts aren't beveled and are too tall. A thought just occurred to me. Every now and then, an axe head will loosen up and having a proud haft is useful as I cut the hickory off and then pull out the exposed wedge with pliers. Then I re-seat the head and re-wedge it.
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My position is it doesn't matter. I like the traditional look of a flush cut enough to struggle more if i need to remove a head. It is undoubtedly easier with a protruding haft but that in and of itself isn't enough to sway me. My contention is; Is it inferior? No. Is it necessary? No. It only matters to the owner! I can't imagine, personally, ignoring historical precedent. What axe men did back in the day. I'm pretty sure it was flush so that's good enough for me.
What old axeman mentioned is interesting. I haven't been splitting wood long enough to have that happen yet. But a properly hung flush cut will hold up through many, many years of use.
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I really enjoy this forum. Discussions like this are really thought provoking, and there is a level of respect that is both admirable and rare. While I have certainly used an axe, I’ve nowhere near the experience you all do. I got started refurbishing because I was dumb enough to lend an axe to my then teenage son for a camping trip, and that was the last I saw of it. Prior to replacing it, I decided to research what would be a good replacement, and I ended up here, and now I’m an addict. I’ve made a ton of mistakes on the 100+ axes I’ve refurbished, but always find the solutions and answers here.
My inclination to leave the haft proud has always been strictly aesthetic, as I haven’t the appreciable experience you guys do toinfluence me otherwise. I once cross wedged a double bit because my wedge wasn’t long enough. If I was just making “users,” I’d spend half the time on them that I do. All that being said, I’m going to cut the next few flush! It certainly is easier, and now, I understand, often more effective.
Thanks for letting me be a part of this amazing forum.
My inclination to leave the haft proud has always been strictly aesthetic, as I haven’t the appreciable experience you guys do toinfluence me otherwise. I once cross wedged a double bit because my wedge wasn’t long enough. If I was just making “users,” I’d spend half the time on them that I do. All that being said, I’m going to cut the next few flush! It certainly is easier, and now, I understand, often more effective.
Thanks for letting me be a part of this amazing forum.
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And since we're talking about proud hafts I'll go a step further and say that I prefer the haft to be 1/4" proud and the tight wedge to be recessed 1/8" into the haft so that the end of the haft swells over the wedge and locks it in place. It's not much to look at but in my opinion this is the ultimate hang.
I think axe manufacturers cut them flush because it's a more finished looking product and has more shelf appeal to the unknowing public.
And I know all to well that sometimes woods splits in a 'Z' not a straight line. But I've never seen that 'Z' crack to such extreme as to catch 1/4" of protruding haft. And if it did I wouldn't care. It's a tool.
I think axe manufacturers cut them flush because it's a more finished looking product and has more shelf appeal to the unknowing public.
And I know all to well that sometimes woods splits in a 'Z' not a straight line. But I've never seen that 'Z' crack to such extreme as to catch 1/4" of protruding haft. And if it did I wouldn't care. It's a tool.