A 2016 Forum Knife. An apology, and The Crossroads!

[SadSappySucker]

If we go EE sheep'sfoot would it pretty much be the blade like on the 15 or could it be beefed up like a case 11031? That on a half scout could be cool.

That's pretty much what I had in mind. A full size sheep with an awl secondary.

 

[meako]

When my kids whinge and bicker about stuff I call it "whickering"
I thought this was a discussion thread rather than the definitive "lets decide now...NOW" thread.
Yes it began as Charlie rambling on about something or other but it snowballed out of control into the giant golem we see now.
I do apolologise Charlie -no offence meant (as you know) but I blame you entirely for what is going on here.
Is it my imagination or has everyone seen your name on the thread with its associated gravitas and thought yikes!! ? We won't get a knife this year.
I know I did.
I agree with Jake -howsabout giving Charlie the reins for the design -It must be his turn after the monumental effort he has put in over the past few years-not only with BF trad knife but Traditionals as a whole.
That said -there is a lot of pressure and stress to be borne and I wouldn't want that ladled entirely on to Charlies plate.
It will all be put to the vote in due course . On a more positive note -the last 3 years have started in a similar fashion and everytime the result has been astonishing.

 

[supratentorial]

I never stated that the thread should be closed, that people can't throw out ideas nor that questions shouldn't be asked or answered so I don't know what you're referencing. All I was stating was that, this thread is swerving instead of straightening out in terms of where this project is headed. You have an extreme wealth of information and knowledge Jake, I've pointed that out before in other threads.

With regards to this thread, you've done an excellent job of providing pictures, examples and history of knives that we can all appreciate and that could easily be used to create this years Forum Knife and Forum Knives of the future. I fully hope that you continue!

I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. I'm stating that I don't have a problem with it being closed if it's not helpful to Charlie. I honestly don't know what to do. I agree that we're not necessary on a track. I think Charlie will probably make a new thread when he's ready. Charlie and any other brave souls who shoulder this task deserve our full support.

 

[meako]

AYE:thumbup:

 

[Jsega51]

It's all good guys, I didn't want to seem like I was calling anyone out, making a definitive stand or taking control here. I'm all for ideas and they always lead to some very creative designs! I was just trying to get this thread back on the road, between the lines.

I really like that electrician blade the more that I look at it. What about a "Circuit Scout"...

 

[lambertiana]

Neat idea. What's the length closed? 4.5 inches?

That cokebottle jack is 3 5/8" closed. You're probably thinking of the cokebottle folding hunter, which is usually much larger.

 

[RobbW]

It sounds like Charley and Bill are working on a very special 3-3/4" Equal-End frame, and hoping we will take advantage of it. I for one am willing to support that. I'm sure it will be exceptional, and if it's going into general production this year I'm sure there will be some economies of scale that will bring us a good price.

I've seen this frame with nice wide Clip-point blades, or with Spearpoints that ride deep within the contours of the frame. Either of those would be very traditional and resemble the Northwoods Indian River Jack, but made to GEC standards. A single blade would suit me fine and keep the cost down for everyone. A Coping, Sheepfoot, or Pen blade on the opposite end would increase versatility.

 

[abbydaddy]

I've been pretty quiet on this thread, but I just wanted to add my voice to the chorus asking that we place our trust in Charlie. In the hopes that he will reward our trust with a Forum Knife for 2016.

I'm in whatever knife gets picked.

Though I would still love a Whaler, or a New England Whaler, or a Rope Knife with Marlin Spike... those would be my dream knife options.

 

[Will Power]

I arise from my influenza sick-bed to clarify a few points. But, if I sound delusional it's due to the hallucinations and fever

The Lambfoot looks like a dead-duck project to me, so no point pursuing it. Pity as it might be good but quite obviously it presents problems: it would really need a new frame (expense) and it would not offer GEC much scope for variations or development in the future. Moreover, GEC is a company whose aim is produce American cutlery to the standard and styles of 90 years ago. The Lambfoot is foreign, thus the owner might not be that interested in it. They've yet to produce a Laguiole for instance, and likely won't.....

About single-spring knives, for I infer from Charlie's notes that this is what Bill Howard is working on. My favourite type of knife so that (selfishly) pleases me. I have many factory knives with this arrangement from CASE, Queen/Schatt, GEC, Canal St, Böker Germany and Chinese RR knives. Only one displays slight rub, one of the CASE knives. GEC in particular make the 33 Conductor, 57 Half Whitt, and 68 White Owl and NONE of my specimens stainless or carbon show rub. So I'm confident they can master this process. Last year's CS Forum Knife has NO rub and beautiful sharp snap, on mine at least. Some people may say "But we've already had a single-spring knife in 2015, something else!" Well, they don't say that about the host of Jack knives we've already had (the majority) Anyway, CS's knife was Shadow wood another excellent first. But we should perhaps beware duplicating the blades Clip/Sheepfoot .

So it's Equal End. What of the practicalities? It's going to be 3.75" single spring then. Are there existing GEC master blades that would fit there? Maybe a Spear from the 85? But certainly the Drop-Point from the well-liked 73 pattern and that would be my choice, great blade and something different too. Secondary? Why not a small Clip or a Modified Pen according to size? Of course, I don't know if it's mechanically possible but I thing it would give us a different knife with useful blades. Bolsters? Tip please, but I can't see that happening. But why not Slant? Makes for elegance and it's not been seen on a Forum knife yet.

Here's some pictures to consider. Modified Pen on Small Texas Jack, Small Clip on Norfolk (also on Whittlers) Swedged Drop-Point from GEC 73. Thanks for your time.

 

[Jack Black]

Honestly! I go to bed and it gets all raucous in here! I'd have got the servants to wake me up if I'd known

When my kids whinge and bicker about stuff I call it "whickering"
I thought this was a discussion thread rather than the definitive "lets decide now...NOW" thread.

LOL! Yes, I think that's exactly what it is, just like the thread we've had every other year. I'm sure that Charlie will love the discussion here, (when it remains polite). I suspect that he'll post another thread with a poll giving limited options, not on the pattern, which seems to have already been decided, but on blades and cover materials. Then we'll get an even bigger influx of newcomers. This is just a discussion thread, and there's no need for any unpleasantness here, if people want to start throwing insults there are other parts of the forum where that is acceptable, and where they can, most likely, be replied to in a similar manner. I don't think it'd really matter if this thread is closed, but it'd be a shame for Frank or Gary to have to do that. If people don't like the discussion here, don't worry, you'll get your knife anyway, and I doubt anything said in this thread will make a bit of difference either way :thumbup:

Jake, you've said absolutely nothing you need to apologise for, in my opinion you've conducted yourself entirely properly, helpfully answering the questions that have been asked :thumbup:

 

[Jack Black]

I arise from my influenza sick-bed to clarify a few points.

Hey, hope you're feeling better soon Will :thumbup:

The Lambfoot looks like a dead-duck project to me

Who are ya calling a duck?! :thumbup:

Pity as it might be good but quite obviously it presents problems: it would really need a new frame (expense) and it would not offer GEC much scope for variations or development in the future.

I doubt it'll happen either, but I don't think there are any inherent problems in the design. There are GEC frames that a Lambsfoot blade would fit very nicely, the 15, 77, or 47 for instance. It would be less complex than producing Charlie's Ancient Barlows for example, and even if they didn't run the pattern again, GEC would be producing a huge number of knives here :thumbup:

About single-spring knives...I have many factory knives with this arrangement from CASE, Queen/Schatt, GEC, Canal St, Böker Germany and Chinese RR knives. Only one displays slight rub, one of the CASE knives. GEC in particular make the 33 Conductor, 57 Half Whitt, and 68 White Owl and NONE of my specimens stainless or carbon show rub. So I'm confident they can master this process. Last year's CS Forum Knife has NO rub and beautiful sharp snap, on mine at least.

That's good to hear Will. I have had a number off RR knives with quite bad blade rub, but it's forgiveable at their price point, and hopefully GEC can do a lot better :thumbup:

Some people may say "But we've already had a single-spring knife in 2015, something else!"

Yeah, too right! :grumpy:

Well, they don't say that about the host of Jack knives we've already had

Hmmm...:grumpy: Though strictly speaking, this would be a Jack knife wouldn't it?

Some good ideas on an EE my friend :thumbup: I do think that as a secondary blade, the humble pen can sometimes be overlooked, there's a reason why it has always been so popular :thumbup:

 

[Jack Black]

Moreover, GEC is a company whose aim is produce American cutlery to the standard and styles of 90 years ago. The Lambfoot is foreign, thus the owner might not be that interested in it. They've yet to produce a Laguiole for instance, and likely won't.....

Sorry Will, I missed this point before. While this has always been a consideration at the back of my mind, based on conversations I've previously had with Charlie, GEC produced Charlie's 'Ancient' blade, and I've even seen it referred to as a Lambsfoot. Let's also not forget it was Bill who added a 'caplifter' to a Barlow knife! :grumpy: I don't think the comparison with a Laguiole is a good one, because a Lambsfoot isn't THAT foreign! At least one US manufacturer does produce a knife with a Lambsfoot blade (albeit not in the US) :thumbup:

 

[pertinux]

In terms of manufacturer, our options are obviously less than last year, and it's really good of Charlie to step up again - and Barry and Liam too :thumbup:

Anyone seen Barry/Gunstock Jack recently?

I didn't think so.

Given Barry's early comments regarding undertaking the shipping again, I'm not as confident that he has now "stepped up"; I suspect "was Shanghaied" to be more accurate.

Charlie being so, er, "convincing" and all.

~ P.

 

[oldways]

I do not think the lambsfoot will sell very well.
I know I do not want one.
There is a reason they are rare in America...noone wants them.

 

[meako]

IksKyooze me M'lud but your Imirikhen chums seems to be avin' a barney.

question:How is the lambsfoot "foreign" when the Turkish clip or any of the others seem to be so deeply entrenched in the American psyche and yet were brought there by foreigners?
Thats simply a question ,I'm not touting lambsfeet or any other Ovine based blade.

 

[waynorth]

Well, I have enjoyed the spirited discussions here, and would like to say thanks to all who have contributed their pictures and ideas. It all contributes to future knife designs. If not the next Forum knife, maybe a production knife or an SFO. I bring your ideas up with GEC, and we bounce them around, trying to distill or blend them into this project as well as others.

Here is what I am thinking might be a good one to proceed with.
As you all might surmise, I like getting first shot at a new handle pattern for our annual knife. It makes the final product a little more special. We did a single spring last year, so let's go with a double blade or single blade Jack. That's with one or more blades from one end.
We could do a good old clip and pen, or we could do a sheep foot and clip, like the Carpenter's knife in many old catalogs. Or we could do a single blade.

 

[Jack Black]

It's all good guys

:thumbup:

Sorry, just realised I missed a page of posts

Not trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes here buuut didn't we already get sheepsfoots on BF knives ?

I'd love to see a big Sheepsfoot, but that's a reasonable point Meako (even if they're quite different knives) :thumbup:

Anyone seen Barry/Gunstock Jack recently?

I didn't think so.

Given Barry's early comments regarding undertaking the shipping again, I'm not as confident that he has now "stepped up"; I suspect "was Shanghaied" to be more accurate.

Charlie being so, er, "convincing" and all.

:thumbup:

In terms of an EE, Spear and Pen might not be the 'sexiest' combo, but it works :thumbup:

 

[Jack Black]

I do not think the lambsfoot will sell very well.

And yet this (below sold like hot cakes, and there's been plenty of support for a Lambsfoot in this thread.



I think a forum knife would sell well irrespective of the pattern anyway :thumbup:

 

[tdkfm]

Well, I have enjoyed the spirited discussions here, and would like to say thanks to all who have contributed their pictures and ideas. It all contributes to future knife designs. If not the next Forum knife, maybe a production knife or an SFO. I bring your ideas up with GEC, and we bounce them around, trying to distill or blend them into this project as well as others.

Here is what I am thinking might be a good one to proceed with.
As you all might surmise, I like getting first shot at a new handle pattern for our annual knife. It makes the final product a little more special. We did a single spring last year, so let's go with a double blade or single blade Jack. That's with one or more blades from one end.
We could do a good old clip and pen, or we could do a sheep foot and clip, like the Carpenter's knife in many old catalogs. Or we could do a single blade.

I like this direction a lot. This picture from early in the thread would be my vote for blade combo. Also, thanks for all your work on this.

 

[Jack Black]

Well, I have enjoyed the spirited discussions here, and would like to say thanks to all who have contributed their pictures and ideas. It all contributes to future knife designs. If not the next Forum knife, maybe a production knife or an SFO. I bring your ideas up with GEC, and we bounce them around, trying to distill or blend them into this project as well as others.

Here is what I am thinking might be a good one to proceed with.
As you all might surmise, I like getting first shot at a new handle pattern for our annual knife. It makes the final product a little more special. We did a single spring last year, so let's go with a double blade or single blade Jack. That's with one or more blades from one end.
We could do a good old clip and pen, or we could do a sheep foot and clip, like the Carpenter's knife in many old catalogs. Or we could do a single blade.

I bet you've been having a right old chuckle Charlie! :thumbup:

I like the way you're thinking my friend, can I once again give consideration to a big old Sheepsfoot on the 47 frame, but clip and pen, or whatever would work for me? :thumbup: