A balanced strop

My one leather that was used are blackened now, but still produce great result. Brought back the edge many times, after used with cardboard (just testing though, not really box destruction). I haven't had to go back to stone yet. ;)

Edit to add: as urban dweller, my use is light, paper shredding (3-4mm strips to be, from A4 paper), tea packages (aluminium foil) and shaving. Sometimes, pizza cutting (on the box-cardboard) and then testing shredding the cardboard plate it's on.
However, previously I used to have to go back to sandpaper / stone to bring the bite back & have good shave. Now I don't.
 
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Chris "Anagarika";12044550 said:
Edit to add: as urban dweller, my use is light, paper shredding (3-4mm strips to be, from A4 paper), tea packages (aluminium foil) and shaving. Sometimes, pizza cutting (on the box-cardboard) and then testing shredding the cardboard plate it's on.
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Dude, this makes me so sad! You need to go camping or something.
 
bluntcut said:
gmail me.
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Gmail sent!

These horse butt strips from Springfield leather seem like a screaming deal to me, especially when compared to this:
http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/en-usd/search/searchresults/4532-00.aspx

I am fantasizing about making some belts, but I'm not sure they will be long enough. One thing is for sure, I am going to be making a hanging strop with one of them. I also ordered some tooling scraps at the same time to try my hand at sheath making!

When you are testing out all of these different stropping compounds, are you doing each one on a fresh horse-butt strop, or are you scraping one compound off and then applying a different one?

I hope my testing of the "balanced strop" will be useful to you. I have never used a strop before, so if I can improve the edges I am producing on the Edge Pro, then I think you can safely conclude that anyone can benefit from this "idiot-proof" strop concept. I consider myself just one-half step above an idiot when it comes to sharpening.
 
sharpandsafe said:
Gmail sent!
...
When you are testing out all of these different stropping compounds, are you doing each one on a fresh horse-butt strop, or are you scraping one compound off and then applying a different one?

I hope my testing of the "balanced strop" will be useful to you. I have never used a strop before, so if I can improve the edges I am producing on the Edge Pro, then I think you can safely conclude that anyone can benefit from this "idiot-proof" strop concept. I consider myself just one-half step above an idiot when it comes to sharpening.
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1st class letter on its way.
...
I test compounds from fine to coarse, scrape clean between compound. Sure the strop is somewhat contaminated with smaller abrasives but that shouldn't make much different with the result. I usually sand down (100grit garnet) the leather if I need to go back to finer abrasive. When this piece of leather is worn out, it serves last duty as a cutting test subject. Gotta be stingy with 30cents/foot of leather ;)

Thanks for testing and perhaps good results might encourage others to give this strop a try.
 
I made a 1x30 leather belt then hand rubbed white compound on it. Here is an edge finished on 220 grit AlO stone and stropped on this belt for 4 minutes. Camera at ~45* angle into the edge.
leatherbelt1x30.jpg3v220gritstropped.jpg

This smooth toothy edge cleanly sliced over 100feet of cardboard with ease and remain sharp. I also stropped 3 straight razor (I made in 52100, aeb-l, 3v), all will push cut phonebook paper almost in all directions but straight cross grain (+- 5 degrees).

I consider this belt in the same territory of the slotted paper wheel except for the belt you work with a flat surface instead of curvature of 6/8/10" dia wheel. Also I don't know at this speed the nap in leather does anything or not. When I hand stropped those straight razors, I can push cut pb in all directions. So could control be that or something else (nap/pressure/??).

edit: looking the belt blacken marks, I realized I didn't true/flatten the leather surface before use - doh!
 
Chris "Anagarika";12123053 said:
Do I get this correctly? 220 grit + strop resulting in better edge retention?
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Yes and I used 220 because the Aluminum Oxide stone happenned to be next the 1x30 belt grinder. For rough works, grit between 220 and 600 + strop would give best edge retention.
 
Got it.

On another thread, it's mentioned that strop has to use the smooth side. However on this balance strop, you recommend using rough side, which gave me good result. Any 'hand waving' theory on this?
 
Chris "Anagarika";12125450 said:
Got it.

On another thread, it's mentioned that strop has to use the smooth side. However on this balance strop, you recommend using rough side, which gave me good result. Any 'hand waving' theory on this?
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This is why, to this day, I've never ruled out either (smooth or rough). So many variables play into it: leather character, compound, backing or substrate (wood/cardboard/paper/glass/hanging strop), steel type, edge grind (V-bevel/convex), desired edge finish (coarse/polished), individual technique, pressure, speed of stroke, etc., etc., etc.. I've noticed that some of my knives seem to 'like' one way, and other of my knives respond well to the other. And even then, I often see changes in outcome with further experimentation and evolution in my own skill/technique. In a nutshell, I try to keep an open mind, and it seems to always teach me something new. :)


David
 
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Obsessed with Edges said:
This is why, to this day, I've never ruled out either (smooth or rough). So many variables play into it: leather character, compound, backing or substrate (wood/cardboard/paper/glass/hanging strop), steel type, edge grind (V-bevel/convex), desired edge finish (coarse/polished), individual technique, pressure, speed of stroke, etc., etc., etc.. I've noticed that some of my knives seem to 'like' one way, and other of my knives respond well to the other. And even then, I often see changes in outcome with further experimentation and evolution in my own skill/technique. In a nutshell, I try to keep an open mind, and it seems to always teach me something new. :)


David
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Thank to you, David for turn around and teach/help us forumites :thumbup: I've learned alot from you.

I am thinking out loud...

Those mentioned macro physics variables & targets interacts in a sharpening event. It's quite daunting in complexity (perhaps drowning is a better word), so most of us usually happy using results to refine the techniques. Once one acquires enough emperical result driven techniques trick bag -> ah gratifying sharp or are there something still tugging us to find out the theories behind those techniques? There is no real business case for putting major $ to perform basic research on this area. Oh hey, NSF give us some grants :cheerful:

OK, My next post will be more hand-wavingly cheerful.
 
Chris "Anagarika";12125450 said:
On another thread, it's mentioned that strop has to use the smooth side. However on this balance strop, you recommend using rough side, which gave me good result. Any 'hand waving' theory on this?
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Beside the scaling/shingling affect of the abrasives I hand-waved in my earlier posts & video.

The short nap/scale/bristle has 3 important functions.

a. provide sufficiently long enough grain to minimize upward flexing/bending immediately next to the apex.

b. soften a fairly firm surface, taken away pressure from the abrasives, thus less spring loaded than a rigid mesh surface (leather smooth side).
* even if we remove the bending/flexing factor, when the abrasive about to exit the edge the spring will be unloaded, therefore will round/dent the apex. So we want less compression.
* for the case of super hard/thin roo leather (or assume it's glass), no loaded spring - see c.

c. abrading (from abrasives) vectors mostly parrallel to the surface because the soften (b.) surface favor abrasive to flat facet or trailing positions against the blade
* for abrading vector please see abrading diagram in 'Cross sectional bevel geometry' thread.

Ouch my hand-waving fingers poked my clear as mud delusional eyes :p Maybe somehow I get inspire to create diagrams & props to further illustrate what I think why nap/rough side on fairly firm leather works well for this strop.

I know, this blah & strop might be just nonsense for most of you anyway, nevertheless either way please don't hesitate to chime.
 
David, Bluntcut,

Thanks for responding ... :thumbup:

Though the last hand waving part needs contemplation to understand ;) perhaps my already tired mind from a day of work ...... why would a softer one favor paralel vector :confused: as something paralel won't meet to make an edge (kidding :p)

In any case, the proof is in the pudding as said, or at the edge. Your method in totality (leather, nap side, compound and enough pressure) works for me. Gotta test some rougher grit (600 DMT) later.

Now hunting the cross section geometry thread :)

Edit to add :Found it
 
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Thanks for the hunt Chris - This diagram edge-trailing figure. Instead of 'burr formation line', in this case we've 'rounding line' from leather upflexing and abrasive recoiling.

Additional function d. nap/bristle free-end will change direction to go with the flow of the blade motion. increase % of abrasive population that already aligned in favor of lowering the Abrading Vector. Think how sand would align itself on wind-swept grass - i.e. oriented in a stream line, minimum wind resistance profile. For those particles that partially embedded where its cutting vertex poing toward/into/head-on the wind, large % of them will be re-oriented with the flow by the friction pressure from the blade bevel shoulder.
 
Happened to break the tip of my SRM763. So I reshaped it and resharpened on diamond 320 and 600 grit. Stropped on the balance strop.

Worked well so far, it is not as smooth as my usual shave, but still acceptable. After shredding several pages of printed A4 copier paper, it still shave.

Perhaps you're right, a coarser edge will last longer.
 
Update: it retains the slicing agressiveness better, but not comfortable for shaving. I have to repolish this I guess, or strop it more ...
 
Chris "Anagarika";12197964 said:
Update: it retains the slicing agressiveness better, but not comfortable for shaving. I have to repolish this I guess, or strop it more ...
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Try strop some more, it should refine the edge - hence making it less toothy. Instead of sharp teeth, now it would be more like shallow scallop micron-serration. I do this with many of my knives, once the edge is too smooth, I would back hone to certain toothy grit (mostly 400 or 600 or 1K or 4K) then strop.
 
bluntcut said:
I've tested a strop surface made from small manila/jute ropes. After 2 weeks of test, I found this surface is more versatile and much lower maintenance than leather. Although, freshly charged compound on nap-leather produced a slightly more reflective/mirror finish. A well-used manila strop easily matched leather finishes.

+ A manila rope strop
+ Image capture setup
+ A Mora with new 26* bevel reprofiled and finished on on a brand new manila strop loaded with bulk white-compound (12-15um AlO)

View attachment 340220
View attachment 340219
View attachment 340216View attachment 340217View attachment 340218

It gave a clean dry shaved (low angle and not much pressure) of facial stubbles, also removed some skin in the form of dust. Sharp and too coarse :eek:

edit: should mention that this manila rope strop works quite well for stropping serrated knives.
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First, the above edge has a burr.

Second, abrasive size of white compound in in the single digits.

And third, what's the point of stropping for so long? That just tells me the edge wasn't good enough from the stone.
 
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