A close encounter in NYC yesterday...

Trident777 said:
Sir I have a question. I am also a NYC area resident. Regarding carry, is concealed carry legal? If I carry a fixed blade 4-6" IWB concealed carry in my pants and it's covered by my shirt, am I good to go? Or m I breaking the law? Am I allowed to conceal carry my fixed blade or large sebenza on my person for sf defense and what not, as long as it's concealed with no clip showing because it's a fixed blade, is that legally within my rights? Do I have to be a chef or some type of job where I can say I use a knife? Or just concealed? And if I am in upstate new York or westchester or Suffolk county new york, then can I openly carry myfixed blade in a Randall pouch type sheath on my waist?Can someone chime in? We got to the point that says gravity and auto knifed, no good. Bad, but What about a fixed blade in waistband carry?
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I'm not a laywer or NYPD but I'll try to help. I wouldn't take anything said on this forum as gospel. The laws you're interested are NYS PL 265 for NY state law and for NYC, its 10-133. You should read these yourself. To answer your questions...
- Concealed carry appears to be the only legal way to carry in the city.
- NYC law limits the blade to less than 4" so you're pushing it (law says 4" or greater is a public danger). It still needs to be concealed but imo you may be charged with possession of a dangerous weapon
- You're supposed to conceal carry your blade. Your Large Sebenza may run afoul of the "gravity knife" issue
- You can't carry anything for self defense. You will be charged with possession with the intent to use unlawfully against others. Don't even say you're carrying a pen/pencil for self defense. It is always always a tool.
- Chefs have been arrested for carrying 2" knives. I remember seeing Tom19176 mention that and he's former NYPD and still keeps in touch with them. Construction workers/carpenters were arrested on the job site with leatherman multi tools on their belts. This could just be because the knives were visible
- I'll let someone more knowledgeable comment on upstate, Westchester and Suffolk. I believe you should be ok per the letter of the law but I'd go concealed.
- Fixed blades are theoretically ok unless the officer feels that its a "dagger, dangerous knife, dirk" from 265.01 in which case you'd be arrested for possession of a weapon and charged under state law.

Guys, please feel free to correct me of fill anything in that I'm missing.
 
So basically we do anything at our own risk when not in the act of hunting, fishing, or cooking (in a kitchen or backyard BBQ) kind of sucks for new yorkers, but after all since this is considered a major target city for terrorists, "they" can do anything they want. Guess I better learn how to karate chop Boxes open with my bare hands if even construction workers can't carry tools. I also read somewhere about congress recently passing a law that law enforcement or the military can lock up or kill any citizen without trial without explanation or proof if "they" claim said citizen is a terrorist or under suspicion of plotting anything, which they need no proof to do. The world truly is a scary place to live in these days...
 
if they request permission to search you all you have to say is "i dont consent to any searches" it is against the law for an officer to search a citizen without a warrant. sad thing is is that if you dont say you dont consent they can do it anyways. if they still search you afterwards, you can take it to court. another thing our grand government neglects telling us about.
 
unfortunatesmith said:
another thing our grand government neglects telling us about.
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Yea, that really is the root of many many problems isn't it? It's kind of naive to expect people to conform to the laws when the resources to find out what the laws are aren't really available unless you have a knowledgeable lawyer. As a result, most american's understanding of their laws is loosely constructed around hear-say and maybes.
 
The more you look into the actions of LE in NYC the crazier it gets. You probably have more rights in Beijing. People that aren't carrying any kind of knife get screwed with hard. It doesn't matter what the physical properties are of your pocket knife, nor does any sort of justification for a Stop and Frisk seem to be needed.

http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/nypolice/ch5.htm


During the Commission’s hearing on police practices in New York City, the testimonies of several community residents reflected a great deal of frustration with this situation.[121] For example, Arthur Mims, a New York City resident, stated that while on his way home one evening in November of 1997, he was stopped by police officers from the Midtown North precinct. “They came over to me and asked me what is in my “f-ing” bag, and they didn’t say “f-ing.” I said I work here. I went over to the door, rang the bell, co-workers came out and said he works here. And with that I was maced.”[122]

Similarly, Anthony Rivera, a corrections officer of the New York Department of Corrections, informed the Commission of another potentially serious incident that involved the Street Crime Unit:

I was also stopped by a fellow officer while picking up my daughter one day at school, by the Street Crimes Unit. They just came out of their vehicles, about three vehicles, like cowboys from the wild, wild west, with their guns drawn. Luckily I had a shield, and my friend, my fellow officer, had his shield. But if it was a regular Latino out there, we might have been a statistic that you talk about today, our brothers being shot without probable cause, or for any reason.[123]

Other witnesses maintained that minority youth in particular are especially likely to be stopped and frisked in New York City. According to Hyun Lee, program director of the Committee Against Anti-Asian Violence,

[y]outh of color who sit on their front stoops these days are routinely subjected to illegal stops and frisks during random neighborhood drug sweeps conducted by the NYPD. After illegally searching the youth and coming up with absolutely nothing, the police continue the process of detention and questioning for several hours, hoping to acquire leads on other cases. During the detention, the police officers also take illegal Polaroid snapshots of the youth. Although the youth has committed no crime and have no prior record, his or her face is now logged into the criminal justice system. These illegally acquired mug shots are later used to facilitate the selection of suspects when a crime is reported.[124]
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During the first nine months of 2011, 514,461 New Yorkers were stopped by the police.
451,469 were totally innocent (88 percent)
276,664 were black (54 percent)
157,487 were Latino (31 percent)
46,934 were white (9 percent)

Over 50,000 innocent people/month, over 1600/day get detained and frisked - whatever knife you decide to carry there you'd better tie a rabbit's foot to the lanyard.
 
Trident777 said:
So basically we do anything at our own risk when not in the act of hunting, fishing, or cooking (in a kitchen or backyard BBQ) kind of sucks for new yorkers, but after all since this is considered a major target city for terrorists, "they" can do anything they want. Guess I better learn how to karate chop Boxes open with my bare hands if even construction workers can't carry tools. I also read somewhere about congress recently passing a law that law enforcement or the military can lock up or kill any citizen without trial without explanation or proof if "they" claim said citizen is a terrorist or under suspicion of plotting anything, which they need no proof to do. The world truly is a scary place to live in these days...
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Its the US that's becoming scarier. The wording of the law requires you to be held once the accusation is made (their hands are tied so to speak). There's no clear standard for obtaining a release, and US citizens are not immune. This is the law - might be time to apply for citizenship back in the "old country".
 
The NYPD "Stop and Frisk" policy is as unconsititional as it gets.....The form filled out when one is done ( a 250) requires an officer to list why he stopped the person. How often do you think the truth is altered on that line? The only slightly mis representation of the statics noted above is the fact then when an arrest is made or summons issued many officers feel they have documented the stop and therefore do not need to fill out a 250, therefore some offenders who are charged were not recorded in this stat, however, most arrests do not come out of stop and frisks. Many commands require officers to fill out a set number of 250s a month as a part of their activity report. The Fourth Amendment ( and for most part the Second) have been suspended under Mayor Mike folks.....
 
Trident777 said:
So basically we do anything at our own risk when not in the act of hunting, fishing, or cooking (in a kitchen or backyard BBQ) kind of sucks for new yorkers, but after all since this is considered a major target city for terrorists, "they" can do anything they want. Guess I better learn how to karate chop Boxes open with my bare hands if even construction workers can't carry tools. I also read somewhere about congress recently passing a law that law enforcement or the military can lock up or kill any citizen without trial without explanation or proof if "they" claim said citizen is a terrorist or under suspicion of plotting anything, which they need no proof to do. The world truly is a scary place to live in these days...
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This [deleted]is blowing my mind. I never thought I'd have to tell potential employers that I have a criminal record for carrying a 2-inch knife in an honest way. Apparently concealing the weapon is much more honest than being open what you have on your person...

And the bill you are referring to is the new NDAA bill. It basically says any US citizen can be detained, tortured or killed in the name of anti-terrorism. Check it out on wikipedia or whatever you like to read on. It's real and I'm surprised more people aren't pissed about it. The Patriot Act has robbed us of enough liberties, why not just hand them all away in one nice big package this time around? I've been here in NYC for almost 4 weeks now. I CANNOT WAIT TO GET [deleted] OUT. This is truly the capital of paranoia. I miss the beautiful countryside.

HeavyHanded said:
The more you look into the actions of LE in NYC the crazier it gets. You probably have more rights in Beijing. People that aren't carrying any kind of knife get screwed with hard. It doesn't matter what the physical properties are of your pocket knife, nor does any sort of justification for a Stop and Frisk seem to be needed.

http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/nypolice/ch5.htm





During the first nine months of 2011, 514,461 New Yorkers were stopped by the police.
451,469 were totally innocent (88 percent)
276,664 were black (54 percent)
157,487 were Latino (31 percent)
46,934 were white (9 percent)

Over 50,000 innocent people/month, over 1600/day get detained and frisked - whatever knife you decide to carry there you'd better tie a rabbit's foot to the lanyard.
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This post was very informative and made me very uneasy. Sickening to hear.
 
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"I never thought I'd have to tell potential employers that I have a criminal record for carrying a 2-inch knife in an honest way. Apparently concealing the weapon is much more honest than being open what you have on your person..." as posted above....

Read employment applications carefully as most only ask for convictions and not arrests and many only ask for Felonies and not lower crimes, so you MAY never need to list this issue .....
 
Wow, NYC is like a different country.

If a knife is a butterfly knife then its considered a dangerous weapon so intent is implied. How is that?

As far as searching you do have a right to decline it. BUT you will still be patted down and something will be felt thus giving the officer probable cause TO SEARCH YOU.

In Texas where I'm an officer, I see clip pocket knives everyday all day long and guns in truck windows.

We do have laws on length and assisted opening (switchblade and gravity) but its very loosely enforced. Depends on the person, situation, time of day etc. The length is more important to me than switchblade type knives.

My job does not depend on the number of arrests or tickets either.

Now I know in Houston they are more aggressive than us out in the surrounding smaller comunities but not like NYPD.

All Police are not bad people. We care about our community we work in. I go outta my way to help people. When I'm training some 21 yr old young gun, I pound into him "serve and protect".

They seriously go crazy over knife arrest in NYC? Wow. I worry about guns while on domestics and traffic stops. Not that I'm not aware of knives too, its just that there are other things to spend time on.

I'm staying in the Republic of Texas for the rest of my life. We're armed to the teeth over here. Anyone can buy and AK-47 or an AR-15 as long as they don't have a felony or been convicted of family violence.

I wish they would pass an open carry law.

Steve
 
Revenuer said:
Wow, NYC is like a different country.

If a knife is a butterfly knife then its considered a dangerous weapon so intent is implied. How is that?

As far as searching you do have a right to decline it. BUT you will still be patted down and something will be felt thus giving the officer probable cause TO SEARCH YOU.

In Texas where I'm an officer, I see clip pocket knives everyday all day long and guns in truck windows.

We do have laws on length and assisted opening (switchblade and gravity) but its very loosely enforced. Depends on the person, situation, time of day etc. The length is more important to me than switchblade type knives.

My job does not depend on the number of arrests or tickets either.

Now I know in Houston they are more aggressive than us out in the surrounding smaller comunities but not like NYPD.

All Police are not bad people. We care about our community we work in. I go outta my way to help people. When I'm training some 21 yr old young gun, I pound into him "serve and protect".

They seriously go crazy over knife arrest in NYC? Wow. I worry about guns while on domestics and traffic stops. Not that I'm not aware of knives too, its just that there are other things to spend time on.

I'm staying in the Republic of Texas for the rest of my life. We're armed to the teeth over here. Anyone can buy and AK-47 or an AR-15 as long as they don't have a felony or been convicted of family violence.

I wish they would pass an open carry law.

Steve
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Also don't forget NYC is only one place in the entire state of NY. I live in a gun/knife friendly county, 65 miles north of NYC. Driving with a rifle in the car or hearing gun fire from hunters or target shooters is normal here. Unfortunately NYC tries to push the anti gun/knife agenda throughout the state, we have a handful of decent lawmakers that realy go out their way to stop some of the nonsense.

One reason I moved out of NYC ( I work there) was because of the anti-gun laws. I had a NYC permit for years, they in turn had a list of all my firearms. One day they banned "assault weapons" ( most magazine fed centerfire autos) and sent me a letter to surrender or supply proof I sold them. I packed them up and brought them to my parents home upstate... I moved shortly after that and canceled my permit.

About NYPD... IMO they have a large force and while there's areas of NYC where crime is more prevalent, there's also places where they are heavily concentrated and can spend all day looking for lesser offenses. I saw a guy being detained the other day in the subway, middle aged gentleman... I don't know what he did, I'm going to assume he jumped the turnstile ( which is a stupid thing to do). He was calm and cooperative. I heard the PO tell him not to worry because he already called in and he had " no priors". Nothing personal just business ;)
 
Completely concealed has to be one of the stupidest laws on earth . Id much rather know if the person I'm dealing with has a knife.
Wouldn't you?
 
Mac1967 said:
Completely concealed has to be one of the stupidest laws on earth . Id much rather know if the person I'm dealing with has a knife.
Wouldn't you?
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Not necessarily. Completely concealed means that LEOs don't notice it either and at the same time, you don't scare the sheeple and risk having one of them rat you out with a cell-phone 911 call. Out of sight, out of mind. I have carried my knives completely concealed my entire adult life and never had a negative LEO encounter.
 
Promotions and job performance based on number of tickets issues and number of arrests, combined with an oversized police force will lead to this kind of harassment of law abiding people. this is how you end up with undercover officers trying to drum up business for themselves by harassing normal people with pocket clips exposed. Police will pay for these actions over time with a loss of public trust, support and cooperation. I see absolutely no reason to interact with a police officer if their motivation and job security is based on quotas for ticketting and arrest. The only thing worse would be if they worked under commission like a car salesman.
 
I used to live in NY... Upstate, LI and Queens. I don't think that I will ever live there again. Rules like this, the taxes and the rampant corruption throughout the state have forever scared what used to be my favorite city.
 
Isn't it fun living in a police state? I mean I'm sure those fine officers where only trying to take away that knife of yours for your and the publics SAFETY. I mean seriously, you could go on a rampage with that 3.5 inch folder since it's so easily deployed by the flick of a wrist. :rolleyes:
 
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Yeah nypd sucks...and so does NYC now. Concealed is the way to go in NYC. I have been stopped dwb (driving while black) and its amusing, as my wife sits there and waits for them to say the "wrong" thing (ie step out the vehicle). Soon as they do..she asks for their badge numbers, they usually say "why"..and out comes her gold badge, then its not funny anymore, well except to me lol. Nypd has permission to overstep their boundaries by mike. They have no respect and they are allowed to be cowboys. A friend of mine recently came from the sandbox and was accosted by new yorks finest..while he was in uniform. They asked him was her carrying any illegal weapons and attempted to search him against his will. I tried to diffuse the situation but was told to step back. Army Rangers are badass..they got a ride on a bus (ambulance)..and learned a hard taught lesson
 
This just makes me angry hearing about it. What the heck is wrong with this country? What sheer douche-baggery on the part of the NYPD is causing them to go around harassing citizens who are clearly doing no wrong, nitpicking over whether a stupid 3" pocketknife can be snapped open by gravity? Shouldn't they be out catching some REAL bad guys somewhere?

We need to take this country back and regain a measure of sanity and common sense in our laws. Including the knife and gun carry laws.
 
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