A close encounter in NYC yesterday...

[T. Erdelyi]

I'm not standin' up for the Police State NYC has become but it's not hard to travel in the City and carry a substantial knife, just don't be obvious about it.

Discretion is the word when it comes to concealed carry in NYC and remember CC is just that concealed, even with guns, just 'cause ya have a CCW permit, doesn't mean you're allowed to open carry, that can cause panic in normal citizens, they begin to feel threatened when they see any kind of offensive device displayed in the open.

Like my Old Man used to say, "Ya can't go into a den of bears wearin' a meat suit and expect not to get mauled."...hide that clip, deep carry that folder, snug up your pivot screws and stop lookin' like an obvious target.

I remember goin' to the Statue of Liberty with my wife and daughter pre 9-11 I had, (no s**t) 9 knives on me, most were Tactical Style folders, I had to walk through a metal detector and when it went wild, as they pulled me off to the side, I could hear my wife tellin' our 4 year old daughter, "Let's get a seat, Daddy's gonna be here for a while..."

The Park Rangers were determined to prove at least one of my knives were an auto or gravity knife, they couldn't, so they grudgingly handed back all my knives with the strong recommendation that I curb my arsenal to 1 or 2 knives next time I visit.

So off I went to visit one of our countries greatest symbols of freedom with all my knives in tow, I was right and within the law and there was nuthin' they could do, (I really didn't believe that then or now.), my point was I wasn't bein' a douche and I wasn't bein' blatant.

 

[maximus83]

Discretion is the word when it comes to concealed carry in NYC and remember CC is just that concealed, even with guns, just 'cause ya have a CCW permit, doesn't mean you're allowed to open carry, that can cause panic in normal citizens, they begin to feel threatened when they see any kind of offensive device displayed in the open.

.....hide that clip, deep carry that folder, snug up your pivot screws and stop lookin' like an obvious target.

Of course, CONCEALED carry of a folder (I assume that NY--like all socialist governments--doesn't want you carrying any fixed) completely eliminates any defensive scenario. Carry a folder deeply concealed in a pocket is great assuming the knife is just a utility tool, which my knives are about 99.99999999999% of the time. But SHOULD you ever need the blade for defensive use, good luck fishing it out of that pocket and deploying it.

 

[T. Erdelyi]

Of course, CONCEALED carry of a folder (I assume that NY--like all socialist governments--doesn't want you carrying any fixed) completely eliminates any defensive scenario. Carry a folder deeply concealed in a pocket is great assuming the knife is just a utility tool, which my knives are about 99.99999999999% of the time. But SHOULD you ever need the blade for defensive use, good luck fishing it out of that pocket and deploying it.

There are other alternatives to a knife deep in my pocket for SD and this is not the subforum for that discussion, you can go to Prac/Tac for that conversation, all I'm sayin' is you can carry a knife in NYC and not be a target for the legal system.

 

[HeavyHanded]

Of course, CONCEALED carry of a folder (I assume that NY--like all socialist governments--doesn't want you carrying any fixed) completely eliminates any defensive scenario. Carry a folder deeply concealed in a pocket is great assuming the knife is just a utility tool, which my knives are about 99.99999999999% of the time. But SHOULD you ever need the blade for defensive use, good luck fishing it out of that pocket and deploying it.

In NYS and even NYC one can carry a fixed blade. In the rest of the state it can be worn concealed. In NYC it must be concealed (and blade under 4") and even then, since NYPD reserves the right to interpret "Reasonable Articulable Suspicion" as "anytime they damn well want to", you could get frisked and have your knife taken at any moment. A "dangerous knife" charge could easily follow even if your knife is a small slip joint.

 

[JPD1998]

I'm not standin' up for the Police State NYC has become but it's not hard to travel in the City and carry a substantial knife, just don't be obvious about it.

Discretion is the word when it comes to concealed carry in NYC and remember CC is just that concealed, even with guns, just 'cause ya have a CCW permit, doesn't mean you're allowed to open carry, that can cause panic in normal citizens, they begin to feel threatened when they see any kind of offensive device displayed in the open.

Like my Old Man used to say, "Ya can't go into a den of bears wearin' a meat suit and expect not to get mauled."...hide that clip, deep carry that folder, snug up your pivot screws and stop lookin' like an obvious target.

I remember goin' to the Statue of Liberty with my wife and daughter pre 9-11 I had, (no s**t) 9 knives on me, most were Tactical Style folders, I had to walk through a metal detector and when it went wild, as they pulled me off to the side, I could hear my wife tellin' our 4 year old daughter, "Let's get a seat, Daddy's gonna be here for a while..."

The Park Rangers were determined to prove at least one of my knives were an auto or gravity knife, they couldn't, so they grudgingly handed back all my knives with the strong recommendation that I curb my arsenal to 1 or 2 knives next time I visit.

So off I went to visit one of our countries greatest symbols of freedom with all my knives in tow, I was right and within the law and there was nuthin' they could do, (I really didn't believe that then or now.), my point was I wasn't bein' a douche and I wasn't bein' blatant.

Very good advice....

My only worry is that I take the subway to work everyday and there's swarms of NYPD in most of the stations I pass through. I see people being detained all the time , I don't even know what they did. It could be something as simple as going through the wrong exit door.
Not to mention the random bag searches ( they've already stopped me once in Penn Station).
Once NYPD has determined you've broken a law , I worry that my 2 blade slipjoint is now a dangerous weapon.

 

[ooitzoo]

Very good advice....

My only worry is that I take the subway to work everyday and there's swarms of NYPD in most of the stations I pass through. I see people being detained all the time , I don't even know what they did. It could be something as simple as going through the wrong exit door.
Not to mention the random bag searches ( they've already stopped me once in Penn Station).
Once NYPD has determined you've broken a law , I worry that my 2 blade slipjoint is now a dangerous weapon.

You can, and I have, refuse the bag search. Generally, they will tell you that you cannot enter the subway system if you do. However, unless a cop is following, its nearly impossible for them to stop you from using another entrance.

 

[maximus83]

There are other alternatives to a knife deep in my pocket for SD and this is not the subforum for that discussion, you can go to Prac/Tac for that conversation, all I'm sayin' is you can carry a knife in NYC and not be a target for the legal system.

I don't think this is the wrong subforum: we're talking about knife laws, and that would include knife laws that require you to carry your blade in a way that affects your ability to deploy it. In this case, the issue is how the knife law that requires you to carry the folder COMPLETELY hidden affects your ability to deploy the folder for defensive use.

In my mind, that NYC law makes carrying a FOLDER, FOR DEFENSIVE PURPOSES, a complete non-starter. I cannot see a viable way to carry a FOLDING knife, completely concealed, in such a way that you'd ever be able to deploy it effectively for any defensive use. Their law rules that out.

Now if, as HeavyHanded says, it's the case that you can carry a FIXED blade under NYC law, then you have a good fallback. Fixed blades can be carry lots of ways that you can deploy them quickly-and you won't have to deal with opening the blade as well. Of course a CCW pistol is the best option, but better yet is a pistol backed up by a good blade for defense if all else fails.

Now, like I said above: if you have no thought of EVER using for defensive purposes any of the 9 tactical folding knives you said you carry, and if they are all for strictly utility and cutting tasks, then you should be fine under this law.

 

[T. Erdelyi]

...Now, like I said above: if you have no thought of EVER using for defensive purposes any of the 9 tactical folding knives you said you carry, and if they are all for strictly utility and cutting tasks, then you should be fine under this law.

That was back in 95 or so, I'm more discreet now and like I said there are other alternatives for an SD weapon.

The question as I see it is do you avoid NYC and try to change the laws from the outside or do ya risk it all to stick to your opinions and blatantly carry in an obvious way that'll insure you're a target for the NYPD?

 

[TOM1960]

Of course, CONCEALED carry of a folder (I assume that NY--like all socialist governments--doesn't want you carrying any fixed) completely eliminates any defensive scenario. Carry a folder deeply concealed in a pocket is great assuming the knife is just a utility tool, which my knives are about 99.99999999999% of the time. But SHOULD you ever need the blade for defensive use, good luck fishing it out of that pocket and deploying it.

Like anything else, practice makes the difference. I can deploy mine pretty quickly from a right front trouser pocket. It is a CS "Voyager" folder with a 4" blade. I carry it pivot-down for a fast draw. Fixed blades can be a PITA to conceal. They usually require attachment to a belt and a lot of times, the sheath is what prints through clothing and gives away the person carrying it.

 

[HeavyHanded]

From my point of view a folder in the pocket can certainly be brought out fast enough to make a difference as long as some practice and awareness is used. For myself I carry a fixed blade IWB, but that's for a bunch of reasons, not the least is I don't need any more crap in/on my pockets than I already have.

As far as NYC goes, any knife if detected is liable to be confiscated, charges may or may not follow. NYPD executes so many unjustified (criminal) stop and frisks that having it concealed means next to nothing. Consider they paid out over $135,000,000 in 2010 in claims against the department. Who knows how many charges are filed that tie up court time and are eventually dismissed for lack of cause? The more one looks into it the worse it gets. You might as well just carry pepper spray and a keep an old key on your ring for opening boxes.

 

[medusaoblongata]

You might as well just carry pepper spray and a keep an old key on your ring for opening boxes.

I thought pepper spray was illegal in NYC.

 

[HeavyHanded]

It has to be purchased in the state and you have to supply ID at the time of purchase affirming you're 18 or older and never convicted of a felony etc etc, and it has to fit in your pocket?!?!

Can only be bought at gunshops and pharmacies. ??!!

 

[TOM1960]

It has to be purchased in the state and you have to supply ID at the time of purchase affirming you're 18 or older and never convicted of a felony etc etc, and it has to fit in your pocket?!?!

Can only be bought at gunshops and pharmacies. ??!!

OC has its uses. I bought a can of it for my girlfriend to carry. Here in MA, it is considered ammunition (same as a box of .308 rifle cartridges) so you need a Firearms Identification Card (FID) or a License to Carry Firearms (LTC) to purchase and possess it. She has neither. I told her that if she has to use it, empty the whole can into the face of her assailant in one long glorious burst and then get the hell out of Dodge immediately! Do not mention to LEOs that you used OC and make sure you chuck the empty can. They are quiet and have no serial numbers to be traced.

 

[HeavyHanded]

OC has its uses. I bought a can of it for my girlfriend to carry. Here in MA, it is considered ammunition (same as a box of .308 rifle cartridges) so you need a Firearms Identification Card (FID) or a License to Carry Firearms (LTC) to purchase and possess it. She has neither. I told her that if she has to use it, empty the whole can into the face of her assailant in one long glorious burst and then get the hell out of Dodge immediately! Do not mention to LEOs that you used OC and make sure you chuck the empty can. They are quiet and have no serial numbers to be traced.

Despite being disregarded by some, I have a lot of faith in OC to do two things for a person using it

First, it should allow you to escape. Your assailant might still have plenty of fire, but they're not gonna have much air to work with and they won't be seeing well.

Second, should you be really on your butt a dose of the stuff will make everyone vacate a building or vehicle and should keep things from getting a lot worse (think abduction, car-jacking or home invasion).

I got my wife some and I occasionally carry it myself, the better brands are downright toxic and in all reality are probably a lot more effective for SD than a knife. Also, it only qualifies as physical force, not deadly physical force such as with a knife, bludgeon or gun.

The dumbest part NY's pepperspray law is that the can has to have a label on it at all times.

"WARNING: The use of this substance or device for any purpose other than self-defense is a criminal offense under the law. The contents are dangerous - use with care. This device shall not be sold by anyone other than a licensed or authorized dealer. Possession of this device by any person under the age of eighteen or by anyone who has been convicted of a felony or assault is illegal."

After a couple of months in a jacket pocket or clipped to waistband the label is usually illegible or gone...

 

[kvaughn]

It's stories like these that explain why even though I only live 90 minutes from NYC I've been there less than a half a dozen times in 37 years. I don't even like driving past it on my way to PA.

Me too! Ive lived here for 27 yrs and other than dropping off or picking up at the airport, I havent been in to NYC more than 6-8 times. Like I tell people, "I didn't lose anything there so there's no need for me to go there"--KV

 

[Snakemonkey555]

Gosh, that makes me sick. From what i read here, I am thinking those guys were not even cops. A good cop would not treat a civilian that way. I am an officer myself, and if I were to see another officer harrasing a civilian, I would make sure they get a lesson in manners that they will not forget. Aikido style.[/QUOTE

In NYC you give some ( most) guys a badge and a gun and they have a guilty until proven innocent atitude, sad but true.

 

[Snakemonkey555]

New York is a big city, with a BIG police force. Got to find something for them to do. Why else would an undercover operation, two officers, find the time to bug a citizen about a tiny piece of metal? Why would they have orders to snap pocket knives around to see if they violate an obscure and useless ordinance?

I saw undercover officers wait near turnstiles and catch fare-beaters jumping them. At least that brought in habitual criminals with outstanding warrants in many cases. How many repeat offenders has Vance pulled in?

They are doing NYPD a lot of long-term harm. I spent most of my life in the City and we were taught to respect the police. That was then ...

Its much easier and safer to harass innocent bystanders carrying a legal knife ( under 4", i think) then to actually go after lethal criminals.

 

[USAFSP]

There are a few sides to this. If you're carrying a legal knife the proper way you shouldn’t be harassed, and in NYC if you’re carrying the proper way you won’t be because it will be concealed and no on is the wiser. If you are not familiar with the local laws of where you will be transiting it is YOUR fault, NOT the fault of the officer who is checking you out. Also just because the legal limit of an area says you can carry a certain type of knife that doesn’t mean you should have every pocket filled with that type of knife. There is such a thing as moderation and consideration when the spirit of the law is concerned. It’s like drinking before driving. The legal limit somewhere may be .08 but that doesn’t mean you can’t get locked up for poor driving when you are .05. It’s called impaired driving. If you are walking around with 9 knives (not picking on anyone in particular), that is NOT considered normal behaviour for someone out in the city. If you’re out in the woods, hiking, camping or other activities like that, then maybe it’s not so drastic but the mental state, as looked at by law enforcement, towards a person that feels they need to outfit themselves with that much steel for a trip out to the city for a day with the family? C’mon don’t act like it’s within your right to just do what you want. Yes, you’re not breaking the law but you’re asking for trouble... It’s not within moderation. I am all for carrying a knife whether it’s concealed or not. I don’t think size, or nomenclature should matter. I’m not trying to cause trouble or troll the thread but there is always another side of every story. This thread appears to make the police out to be the bad guys in the situation. We however were not there and can only take the OP’s word for it. Not to say he wasn’t completely candid in his description of the situation, however when you’re behind the badge in a city of millions and you’re job is to notice any and every little thing about everyone, it’s not surprising that he was easily spotted and detained for the moment. They did let him go, no? Do the cops have better things to do? If they did, they wouldn’t have plain clothes officers out in undercover taxi cabs looking for your knives. No, they don’t have better things to do. Maybe the next guy they grab has warrants and a criminal history. Like I said, there is always two sides to a story. Just my .02 Hope I didn’t offend anyone.

 

[HeavyHanded]

Hope I didn’t offend anyone.

I'm sure there are plenty of good cops in NYC, but the culture they operate under is pervasive. Quotas and a system that suppresses any attempt by the good ones to report or even correct the behavior of the abusive ones, make it almost irrelevant. From my earlier post - 135 million dollars in claims against the dept for ONE year. Do a search of NYC knife arrests or NYPD misconduct - I predict your jaw will drop and you'll stop reading after fifteen minutes. Its hard to believe you're reading about a PD in the USA. If anything I'd say the criticism here is politely restrained.

 

[crazyengineer]

well, I'm not going to NYC soon, but I can still ask, its good to know. I already checked NYC laws for blade limits, and it is under 4" (lol, ya, i'm not carrying anything near that)

but here is my 2 questions, first, will a multi tool, which is obviously a tool on a belt be considered a weapon? What if the blade has been removed leaving all the other tools only?

second, can't nearly every folding knife on the market be opened via a flip/flick/gravity knife type opening?
I personally can open almost any folder you put in my hand with one hand (I can't manage it with things like multi blade slipjoints and things that are partially rusted or what not). I can open my case cheetah with one hand (grab the blade rather than handle and flip down, I only did this once or twice while fishing, I needed the knife open without putting my rod down and had forgot my ZT0350.

also, on a side note, If I bring some sort of Kershaw AO (I won't, this is hypothetical), is it considered a gravity knife if the blade lock is on (this also applies to a buk rush), because if the blade lock is on when closed, it cannot be opened without opening the lock.