A.G. Russell Traditonal Knives: Should They Be Made In The USA Or Not?

[Kohai999]

Moderator "Blues" moved this over here from Traditional.

I love what A.G. has done for the knife world in terms of quality products, excellent customer service, and great PAPER!!! catalogs...however, these knives are made in China, and while the quality might very well be there, I can't abide at all purchasing traditional folders not made in the U.S.A....and have not yet.

Ya hear me, A.G.?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[rprocter]

Steven, I'm sure AG will "hear" you but your words will be drowned out by the many posters who fully endorse these knives.
roland

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

I love what A.G. has done for the knife world in terms of quality products, excellent customer service, and great PAPER!!! catalogs...however, these knives are made in China, and while the quality might very well be there, I can't abide at all purchasing traditional folders not made in the U.S.A....and have not yet.

Ya hear me, A.G.?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

Made in China or not , these knives just ooze quality. I would bet the price would be double or more if made in the US. I was impressed by the ones I held recently.

 

[CNoyes]

Almost six complete pages of positive comments on these knives before the first negative statement was posted.
It is my understanding that no American manufacturer would agree to make these knives as specified by the Russell design team. That was posted on another knife website. Mr. Russell can correct or clarify that information if he wishes.

 

[rprocter]

It is not just the price (very reasonable) that makes these knives desirable, it is more so the quality. I doubt that there are any knife manufacturers in U.S.A., Britain or Europe who are capable of producing knives even close to the exacting precision of these.
The only production knives i know of that come close are some of those made by Hanwei.
"The times they are a-changing" (whether we like it or not)
roland

 

[Kohai999]

Almost six complete pages of positive comments on these knives before the first negative statement was posted.

What exactly does that mean Charlie?

Does it mean the commentary is somehow invalid? My pants(Carhartt) are assembled in Mexico, my t-shirt is made in El Salvador and the Vans I am wearing right now are from China.

I'll draw my line in the sand with U.S. made traditional knives, thanks.

Your money, all of your money, your choice what or what not to buy...now I can't remember, but did the prototype knives in this series also get made by the Chinese?

No, no that's right, they were done by American craftsman.

Roland, my words can be drowned out by any number of peanut packin' peoples.....doesn't make 'em right, doesn't make me wrong.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Blues]

Thread title changed per request.

 

[stabman]

It should be about the quality, and if you like it.
If the quality is there, and you like it, buy it!
If the quality isn't there, or you don't like it, or the name of the country stamped on the blade bugs you, don't buy it.

"We buys what we like, and we likes what we buy."

 

[CNoyes]

Steve; the comment meant exactly what it said and no other opinion of anything was expressed or implied.
Your stance is your stance. I cannot, nor will not, criticize or object to it. That's your position.

This Chinese made A. G. Russell gunstock jack is the first foreign made pocketknife I have ever bought. I was carrying a C.R.K.T. P.A.L. that was made in Taiwan, but I was given that in a roundtable on another knife site.

I read the thread here at BF about the knives, I went to Russell's website and decided to buy a knife. I'm pleased with it and have been following the thread comments. All had been positive, except for one or two about their size. Your's was the first negative comment after almost six pages of positives. So, I made note of it. It wasn't a dig against you, America, or U.S. based cutlery manufacturers. Just a factual statement.

 

[sheathmaker]

I really, really, really like A G Russell and his boss Goldie. Met them for the first time in person at the Little Rock show last year and again this year. Truly great folks and very easy to like.

I think Elliot is one of the nicest guys I've ever met, along with his partner, Gus.

I don't care if the knives in question ooze quality and it drips on the floor. I still would NOT have one of the Chinese versions up my ass if I had room there for the "Queen Mary". I go one step further than STevie....I don't buy anything Chinese if I can possibly help it (which is becoming darn near impossible).

With Respect for all opinions:

Paul

Edited to add: after some calm thought, I need to add that if I ever did entertain the purchase of a Chinese knife, A G Russell would be the guy I would want it to come from, because I believe he would make sure it was right before he offered it.

 

[SharpByCoop]

Interesting.

Reflect: If the same knife was advertised as being made in Germany, or Japan, or Italy.... Would the reaction be quite as aghast as because they are made in China?

Probably so for STephen. Maybe so for others? I don't know.

I'm indifferent. I'd love to see them Made in USA. But AG's business savvy tells me he can't purchase them profitably here?

This will get political.

Coop

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

Interesting to see those that are against buying foreign ( or is it just Chinese ? ) , yet give no thought to where that PC/laptop they are posting on came from.

Paul , curious if all your sheath making supplies are made in the US ? I would bet not.

It all comes down to best product for the money , why should I pay more for a lesser quality product ?

 

[Kohai999]

Interesting.

Reflect: If the same knife was advertised as being made in Germany, or Japan, or Italy.... Would the reaction be quite as aghast as because they are made in China?

Probably so for STephen. Maybe so for others? I don't know.

I'm indifferent. I'd love to see them Made in USA. But AG's business savvy tells me he can't purchase them profitably here?

Coop

Coop,

This STeven does not have a problem with where A.G. chooses to have his knives made, per se...but for traditionals, I do prefer the U.S. makers. I also have a knife by Ohta in my slipjoint collection, and it is very well made. The Japanese take the homage they give to the U.S. traditional knives very seriously, with great reverence.

Everything you say about A.G.'s profit potential for U.S. knives is probably true....that is the reason that I almost exclusively collect handmade slipjoints....individual makers simply make what I WANT, and most if not all commercial manufacturers do not.

Interesting to see those that are against buying foreign ( or is it just Chinese ? ) , yet give no thought to where that PC/laptop they are posting on came from.

Paul , curious if all your sheath making supplies are made in the US ? I would bet not.

It all comes down to best product for the money , why should I pay more for a lesser quality product ?

I give great thought to where just about everything I purchase comes from, John, including not purchasing fish FARMED in Vietnam(went grocery shopping today).

The vast majority of Paul's sheath making supplies come from....wait for it.....The United States of America....I know this because he hooks me up with dyes and such from time to time, and instead of purchasing on the internet, he takes the long drive into El Paso from Kerrville. You don't need to pay more for a lesser product....you need to decide what is most important to you, and as I know you are not a collector(vs the user you have long claimed to be), you probably wouldn't understand my thoughts on collecting anyway.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[sheathmaker]

Interesting to see those that are against buying foreign ( or is it just Chinese ? ) , yet give no thought to where that PC/laptop they are posting on came from.

Paul , curious if all your sheath making supplies are made in the US ? I would bet not.

It all comes down to best product for the money , why should I pay more for a lesser quality product ?

John T., I was through with this thread, but I'll take another turn to answer you since you referenced me by name.

First, I am posting this on an I Mac, which I believe was made in the USA, but may have foreign sourced parts....I really don't know. I do know the price I paid was deposited in the USA in a USA bank to the credit of a USA company. (Apple)

Next, had I started leather work just recently probably a good portion of my tools etc could be foreign sourced, but I started in 1951 so most of my vintage stuff is pure old USA. My later tools are for the most part custom made (very expensive by contrast) by makers here in the USA. In fact I can't think of a single tool or implement in the last ten years that was not custom made. My sewing machines most probably have Chinese cast parts, but the internal parts are Germany, Italy, USA all assembled here in the USA in Commerce, CA by a USA Company (Artisan Sewing supplies).

Leather and supplies are all 100% USA. Wickett and Craig Tannery USA Hides tanned in Curwensville, PA. I don't use ANY import leather, period. Liquids, dyes, other expendable supplies etc. are all from long standing USA companies purchased either direct from the Mfg. or from an authorized USA Distributor. I don't buy on line.

Finally all these parts and pieces are processed and assembled by me, a USA citizen and even better than made in USA, they are made in TEXAS! and mailed using USPS, another USA entity.

So..................You lose your bet!!!

Thanks for asking and best regards.

Paul

 

[ADD]

That ship, er wagon, ...umm... knife, has long past sailed.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4640307/ns/business-us_business/

 

[Kohai999]

That ship, er wagon, ...umm... knife, has long past sailed.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4640307/ns/business-us_business/

"The 87-year-old company said it would keep its headquarters and distribution business in Chicago but decided the Chicago plant where the metal wagons are built is too expensive to maintain. With the plant closing later this year, Radio Flyer will lay off nearly half its 90 employees.

Chief executive Robert Pasin, whose grandfather started the company, said he did not believe the move would hurt customer loyalty.

"We're still a Chicago company. We're still a Chicago brand," he said."

No one will ever care.....until those that do care point out the difference.

Like I wrote before, MY line in the sand is drawn with a U.S. made traditional knife, one carried(and used) every day.

Chicago...I blow my nose in thy general direction.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

Good to hear on your leather working stuff being USA made Paul . As you mentioned the parts inside the iMac , not made in the USA , parts inside the Artisan's , some not made in the USA. Point being , to a degree , it is hard not to support foreign made.

AG is a business man , he does what is right for smart business.

So let me ask this , is it that they are foreign made , or that they are China made that irks folks ?

 

[rprocter]

From what i have read and from a few clips on TV, China now has a rapidly burgeoning middleclass population. When this huge group reaches a threshold (likely nearly there) they will cause political change. The reason for this ever expanding middleclass is the huge manufacturing/export trade that China does. Buying their products supports and accelerates freedom for the billion plus Chinese people. Shunning their products supports the status quo.
Traditional patterns are not of exclusively USA origins, as every Sheffield collector knows.
Early USA manufacturers tweaked British patterns and thus created an American style of Traditional folders. The point is, it has always been evolving. USA custom makers often don't stay true to an original pattern, but use it as a base for their own interpretation and artistry. Tony Bose is an example of this.
Certainly each of us is free to think what we want to, but being rigid in one's thinking (line in the sand metafor) is a misunderstanding of the ongoing history of Traditional patterns and goes against the political changes which i believe these 'thinkers' want to see.
I believe in the courage and commitment of a moral stance, but also believe it is most effective when accompanied by well thought out action.
roland

 

[CWL]

First, I am posting this on an I Mac, which I believe was made in the USA, but may have foreign sourced parts....I really don't know. I do know the price I paid was deposited in the USA in a USA bank to the credit of a USA company. (Apple)

Paul

Nah, all Macs are made in China outside of Shanghai. Believe me, I've been to the factory several dozen times. No computers have been made in the USA for at least 15 years.

 

[Bastid]

Fact:
In some things there is no choice. (Computers for example.) In other things there is a choice.

My opinion:
To me when a choice actually can be made the choice is personal. When it comes to knives we have a choice. It is all good as long as we enjoy the choice we make.

I have been able to handle some of the models from A.G. They are impressive to say the least. Very nice quality, very nice price.