A.G. Russell Traditonal Knives: Should They Be Made In The USA Or Not?

stabman said:
Can't the political stuff be contained in the hole designed for it?
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Oh, PLEASE. My joke (and that is what it was) is as politically charged as saying "a congress pattern made in the UK should be called a parliament". And another way of pointing out that there is no context for manufacture of traditional slipjoints in China. By the way, do you advocate stabbing people? That is what your name seems to imply.

STeven, sorry I missed your call. I was at my son's kung fu demo. An art form that does, in fact, have a strong tradition rooted in China. Unlike "traditional" slipjoints.
 
bluejaunte said:
I was at my son's kung fu demo. An art form that does, in fact, have a strong tradition rooted in China. Unlike "traditional" slipjoints.
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tiananmen-square-protests-massacre-china-june-4-1989-history-pictures-incredible-amazinf-rare-photos-images-007.jpg


Now you've gone and done it. These guys just now found out that westerners have the temerity and audacity of practicing Kung Fu!

;)
 
bluejaunte said:
And another way of pointing out that there is no context for manufacture of traditional slipjoints in China.
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I guess you think they've been using Spyderco knock offs for the past 5000 years...

Politics BS aside, the Chinese are just people, like you and me.
The ones we want to watch out are the politicians. Of any country.
I'm a Brit living in China. Sure, some of the locals are a little strange but no stranger than the people I left at home. Or met in various other countries.

And we can hardly blame them for making cheap, useless goods when we're the people buying them and funding the whole enterprise.
 
Lee Bray said:
And we can hardly blame them for making cheap, useless goods when we're the people buying them and funding the whole enterprise.
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Nailed my point with a "T" and dotted the "i".

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Lee Bray said:
I guess you think they've been using Spyderco knock offs for the past 5000 years...
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I think the knife collecting world will be turned on its ear when you post photos of the stockman and trapper patterns made by the Chinese in 3000 BC!
 
Aaron, are you talking about 'the stockman and trapper' or are you saying that the Chinese never had their own folder?
Perhaps I'm confused.

STeven - since you took the time to help out a stranger from China(me) a year or two back, I figured you weren't making your point from the 'r' word perspective.
 
t1mpani said:
This is one of those things that I have a gut reaction to that can be pretty much summed up with, "that's awful" and yet, I have to cope with the dichotomy that never once in my life have I ever aspired to be bent over a sewing machine for ten hours a day, and it's rather narcissistic of me to say that job should be done by "some American" so long as it isn't me.
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+1. Extremely well-said, and extremely mind-boggling how many folks don't get it.
 
Lee Bray said:
Aaron, are you talking about 'the stockman and trapper' or are you saying that the Chinese never had their own folder?
Perhaps I'm confused.
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Of course the Chinese have had their own folding knives for centuries. We're talking about the culture that gave us everything from gunpowder to wood-block printing. The ones I've seen (not many) are of either the friction folder variety or the slipjoint the Bob Lum Chinese folder was patterned after (the name escapes me at the moment).

What they do not have is a history of "traditional" slipjoint manufacture! If someone can find a Chinese-developed and -manufactured stockman, peanut, trapper, jack, doctor's, lobster, canoe, etc. dated before 1940, I'll be shocked. I'll even buy one from the AG Russell catalog and post proof. Probably that new sow-belly trapper. The shape really appeals to me and I like the clip blade. Too bad it's not made in the USA or Germany. Or the UK. ;)
 
bluejaunte said:
By the way, do you advocate stabbing people? That is what your name seems to imply.
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There are situations in which stabbing people is allowable.
Self-defense, war, etc.
Oh, you were being sarcastic probably, ha ha ha ha ha.
 
It should be quite obvious now why Elliott and I do not want these types of threads or topics in Trad. It just opens the door to discussions better suited elsewhere at BFC.

(Sorry Steven, you are my brother, always will be, but my other bro did the right thing. I know your intention and where you are coming from, but at the same time Elliott and I did not want to leave this door open. Who knows what would sneak in.)

Especially since there are many places on BFC where this can be discussed.

Trad. is a place for folks who enjoy those types of knives congregate and discuss the knives themselves rather than the politics of knives. We have a varied group who participate there and enjoy the atmosphere for the most part. Yeah we are a little kumbayaish, but we try to foster that, because most who participate there enjoy the atmosphere of being able to discuss what they enjoy without the political trappings which often times detract from the discussion of the knives.
 
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Gus,

I get it, sort of.

Let's just say that Elliott's handling of the situation was unexpected....and that is meant without vitriol or argument....you know from direct experience that I am mostly reasonable, and above all else, approachable.

There is this movie called A Boy and His Dog, with Don Johnson, and they have this town park, and everyone has rosy cheeks......they are underground, and above-ground has given way to nuclear disaster. So we have this artificial construct. It hinders honest and direct discussion.....I understand why, a friction-free oasis would be desirable...but that simply isn't how I work....and so, without directly saying so, the statement becomes..."Steven....you are not welcome to post anything contentious in Traditional."

I don't have to like it, and I don't think it's fair...but it is what it is.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

Bastid said:
It should be quite obvious now why Elliott and I do not want these types of threads or topics in Trad. It just opens the door to discussions better suited elsewhere at BFC.

(Sorry Steven, you are my brother, always will be, but my other bro did the right thing. I know your intention and where you are coming from, but at the same time Elliott and I did not want to leave this door open. Who knows what would sneak in.)

Especially since there are many places on BFC where this can be discussed.

Trad. is a place for folks who enjoy those types of knives congregate and discuss the knives themselves rather than the politics of knives. We have a varied group who participate there and enjoy the atmosphere for the most part. Yeah we are a little kumbayaish, but we try to foster that, because most who participate there enjoy the atmosphere of being able to discuss what they enjoy without the political trappings which often times detract from the discussion of the knives.
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I'm butting in here even though it might annoy some. STeven, come on, you surely know that this statement of yours is a misrepresentation: "..."Steven....you are not welcome to post anything contentious in Traditional." ".
Not "contentious", political. Elliott has made this so clear that even i 'get it' (although it took awhile as we've had disagreements about this in the past).
We can be contentious in Traditionals. For example, if I started a thread "Case Knives are Crap", very contentious but it would not be banned or moved because it's about knives.
I'm sure you're bright enough to 'get it' but you seem to enjoy being contentious with your petulant postings.
roland
 
rprocter said:
I'm butting in here even though it might annoy some. STeven, come on, you surely know that this statement of yours is a misrepresentation: "..."Steven....you are not welcome to post anything contentious in Traditional." ".
Not "contentious", political. Elliott has made this so clear that even i 'get it' (although it took awhile as we've had disagreements about this in the past).
We can be contentious in Traditionals. For example, if I started a thread "Case Knives are Crap", very contentious but it would not be banned or moved because it's about knives.
I'm sure you're bright enough to 'get it' but you seem to enjoy being contentious with your petulant postings....roland
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Is see no difference in saying that I prefer knives made in the U.S. as saying I prefer knives handled in pearl or stag....it isn't political, it isn't a religious position and it isn't petulant...."Case Knives are Crap" wouldn't even be an accurate position to take. I said my bit...and am pretty much done with the sidebars....but would be looking to see if there is any other discussion concerning and encouraging A.G. to work with more U.S. made models.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
I think A.G. Knives should be made where it is most profitable for him
Make them from a VARIETY of countries (and prices and models)
Let ME decide if I want to buy it or not

If you don't like A.G. Russell Chinese made knives
DO NOT BUY THEM
(The knives made in China are noted as such on A.G.'s website)
Cast your economic vote
If enough people feel the same way as you do===>
Then A.G. will see the decline in sales and adjust his prices and/or product offerings (and/or country of origin)

And don't try and make me feel guilty because I am somehow contributing to the decline of the manufacturing sector if I buy Chinese made knives
(I make my purchasing decisions based solely on quality and price...not politics or geography)
Actually, the manufacturing sector in The US is doing quite well
Productivity wise, that is
The number of employee's in the manufacturing sector is continuing it's skid
It's because of automation (robots, etc)
NOT because every one is buying Chinese made goods from Wal-Mart and A.G. Russell

If you want to discuss the manufacturing sector in The US====>
Make a post in The PA
I'll gladly join in the debate........:)
 
Trent, always sweet to see a post of yours. I think you are BF's "Resident Economist". I'd never debate that stuff with you. You've got 'all' the figures and studies and convincing presentation, interspersed with irony, sarcasm and humor. That's part of why "Trent Rock's" !
roland
 
The Butcher, the Baker, the Candlestick Maker...

140 or so years ago when 7 in 10 of us were directly employed in the agriculture industry in the USA, we either were one of those three people, or certainly knew them by name. Today, when maybe 3 in 100 of us are directly employed in the agricultural industry the masses get their daily bread from a national chain store that routinely sources it's produce from around the world. You can still get meat and bread from locally owned butcher shops and bakeries, but these are almost exclusively "boutique" shops, and the candle maker hasn't been relevant in my lifetime (to quote Muddy Waters, I'm way past 21) thanks to electricity, and the light bulb.

I see our domestic traditional pocket knife manufacturers sort of like the old local grocers. The future for them probably lies in catering to enthusiasts, like us, rather than the average guy looking for a knife at the Walmart/Lowe's/Home Depot counter, or online. The Chinese are offering a quality product at a low cost that we just can't match in price, without offering a cheap product.

From what I can see A.G. is doing his best to be relevant in both markets, so I say yes, SOME of the "traditional" knives he offers should be made in China if he wants to offer a measurable level of quality at a decent price.
 
Let me ask this question to those who would like to see AG offer more USA made traditionals.

If the 3 traditionals (that were discussed in the original post that this thread was split from ) were made in the USA , would you buy them for double the price of what the china made ones sell for ?

If they were offered side by side , with one being China made @ $65 and the other being USA made @ $130 ( or more ) , only difference was country of origin , quality was exactly the same , how many of you support him by buying the USA made version ? STeven Garsson would follow thru , I have no doubt about that , how many others would ?

My thought is AG knows the market , knows the trends , knows what will sell for how much. He is providing great quality using knives for a great price.... and they are selling pretty darn well it appears. :)
 
John T Wylie Jr said:
Let me ask this question to those who would like to see AG offer more USA made traditionals.

If the 3 traditionals (that were discussed in the original post that this thread was split from ) were made in the USA , would you buy them for double the price of what the china made ones sell for ?

If they were offered side by side , with one being China made @ $65 and the other being USA made @ $130 ( or more ) , only difference was country of origin , quality was exactly the same , how many of you support him by buying the USA made version ? STeven Garsson would follow thru , I have no doubt about that , how many others would ?

My thought is AG knows the market , knows the trends , knows what will sell for how much. He is providing great quality using knives for a great price.... and they are selling pretty darn well it appears. :)
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The sad fact is that I cannot buy the same quality by paying twice what i am selling these knives for. As someone else has said, here on BF "compare with Case-Bose" where the price is 5-6 times. This kind of thread is always worthwhile because someone will order just to be able to show what junk it has to be and then they provide the kind of thread this one was cut out of.
 
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