A reality check for most makers

It's crap like this, when a thread gets out of control, that really turns me off to Blade Forums, BIGTIME. Maybe when the children become too in control of a thread, it should be closed, and another topic addressed?
 
Hi Betzner,

I have no problem with discussing things off line. What I do have a problem with is someone insulting me in a public forum. I then feel obligized to answer that individual in a public forum.

Now is your chance to step up. You should email Mike off line, ask him to call me and apologize to me. For his lack of integrity, his lying to my face and for not appreciating the hours I spent giving him pricing and marketing advice when no one knew who he was.

But you wont'.

So you can expect more from Mike (hopefully he will use spell check and occasionally start a new paragraph) and I will continue to defend my position.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
Les Robertson said:
John,

The knife was priced correctly by the maker for that point in time. The first dealer that sold that knife jacked up the price and sold it to Kevin. Today that is not a knife that Kevin would buy.

The knife was then consigned to Blade Gallery, where the knife was priced so both Kevin and Daniel could make money on it.

Not one single person along the way had a gun put to their head and was told to buy the knife.


John, Of course you agree with Mike.

But don't you think it is odd, that he sought me out for advise?

Me being such a low life greedy bastard and all??? :D

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
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Les, that Bowie is not one I would buy back as my collection has gone a different direction, but I believe you would agree upon inspection that it is a fine Bowie in spite of the G-bone. It had near flawless fit/finish and superbly executed wolf's tooth damascus. And it was not sold at a price just to make Daniel and I a profit but at what Jerry was asking for a similar bowie at the time.
I'm sure that the buyer got his money's worth at the time of purchase and was quite happy with it. And I believe he could at least get what he paid today considering what Jerry's Bowie's are currently selling at.
 
Les Robertson said:
Hi Betzner,

I have no problem with discussing things off line. What I do have a problem with is someone insulting me in a public forum. I then feel obligized to answer that individual in a public forum.

Now is your chance to step up. You should email Mike off line, ask him to call me and apologize to me. For his lack of integrity, his lying to my face and for not appreciating the hours I spent giving him pricing and marketing advice when no one knew who he was.

But you wont'.

So you can expect more from Mike (hopefully he will use spell check and occasionally start a new paragraph) and I will continue to defend my position.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
Click to expand...

Did someone just suggest I private someone, with whom I have no argument, and admonish that someone for comments made to another??

I don't recall mentioning anyone's name in any of my posts. My posts were directed at the children in the room. Children in school so often feel they must win, must make the last comment, must play the game "my daddy can beat up your daddy". I have no time to deal with the comments of children, it's just that now and then, they need to be admonished.
 
Hi Kevin,

So a knife with a JS is worth as much as a MS?

Would you pay a MS price for a JS knife.

My remarks about the knife are in no way indicative of the knives quality, fit or finish....just handle material choice.

BTW Kevin, and you may have answered this already. How many knives in your collection have Giraffe bone? :D

Would you have Jerry Fisk put Giraffe bone on your next knife? If not why not? :D

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
Wheh! Interesting reading.I appreciate the mention,especially in a positive light.
Me,I think that I will continue to post a pic or two now and then and keep out of the fray.
Dave
 
Betzner,

Well that was amazing!

Someone asks you a couple questions.

Throws a smart alec remark.

How do you respond?

In the same manner you accused me of responding in.

Next word of the day for you is Hypocrite!

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
But don't you think it is odd, that he sought me out for advise?
Click to expand...
I don't find it odd at all , one thing I have learned is to listen ( not just hear ) everyone's opinions , and then draw your own conclusion.

Les if I may ,

I have read numerous posts on BF where posters have stated that so and so's JS knife was better or at least equal to certain MS knives. To me that says , while the stamp should indicate a higher level , that it may not be the absolute. Would you agree ?

I understand you have a dislike for camel bone , probably as strong as my distaste of the look of timascus , but perhaps it is in the way you present your view that makes folks get defensive regarding your comments ?

Discussions get heated , people take shots at each other , but at the end of the day , I bet any of us would give the other person our last dollar if they really needed it.
 
Les Robertson said:
Hi Kevin,
So a knife with a JS is worth as much as a MS?

Not generally, but I would not be surprised if the mentioned piece would hold with his current bowies.

Would you pay a MS price for a JS knife.

Not unless the individual piece was exceptional.

My remarks about the knife are in no way indicative of the knives quality, fit or finish....just handle material choice.

Les, I'm not crazy about G-bone, but many will buy it on the right knife.

BTW Kevin, and you may have answered this already. How many knives in your collection have Giraffe bone? :D

As my collection is open to everyone via my photo site link below, anyone can see I have no giraffe bone. Notice, I do have a very nice Dan Winkler and Karen Shook display set with an elk leg bone handle.

Would you have Jerry Fisk put Giraffe bone on your next knife? If not why not? :D

No, I would not order any piece with giraffe bone because as I said I'm not crazy about it. Now if Jerry made a beautiful piece with a good looking giraffe bone handle, it would not hold me back if the overall piece supported the make of handle.

In addition, I would probably buy the Sfreddo I posted above if the price was reasonable as I truly believe it's one of his best pieces to date.

In addition, I would prefer giraffe bone over micarta in every case except on a extreme user under damp jungle conditions.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
Click to expand...

********************8888
 
Hi John,

I have read numerous posts on BF where posters have stated that so and so's JS knife was better or at least equal to certain MS knives. To me that says , while the stamp should indicate a higher level , that it may not be the absolute. Would you agree ?
Click to expand...

I agree 100% with you. I believe that the majority of the ABS MS makers if they had to pass the test with today's standards would not be able to do so.

These higher standards have made those now pursing their MS stamps to do better work earlier in their career. Consequently, there are many JS makers doing better work (at substantially lower prices) than many MS makers.

Seven years ago I changed my business plan to include "Value" pricing. Whether that is an established maker or new maker. Consequently, I find great quality with a better value price among many of the JS makers. Of course it is only a matter of time before they become MS makers (some already have).

At that point it will be interesting to see who is removed from the second tier by the new MS makers.

The collectors will make the choice...not the makers.

I added that last line to appease the purists who only want the thread topic to be addressed! LOL :D

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomCultery.com
 
Hi Kevin,

To sum up:

You have no knives in your collection with Giraffe bone.

You would consider a knife with a Giraffe bone handle at the correct price (read, well below market value. So the knife could be turned for a profit if necessary...nice strategy)

While you wouldn't necessiarly consider a Fisk with a Giraffe bone handle a "deal breaker"..you wouldn't commission a knife from Jerry with Giraffe bone handle.

:D

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
Les, thank for opening this discussion as I was able to just pick up this great Giraffe Bone Sendero. This is a rare piece in deed. ;) :cool:
Again thanks for convincing the previous owner to part with it. :thumbup:

fiskgiraffebone001copy.jpg
 
Hi Kevin,

Nice try. LOL

Actually that looks more like Oosic than Giraffe bone. I hope it is any way, because that is one ugly piece of Giraffe bone. :thumbdn:

Older piece with Nickel Silver.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
Hi John,

Forgot this:

but perhaps it is in the way you present your view that makes folks get defensive regarding your comments ?
Click to expand...

I know I can be a little prickly. At times I go for the jugular when perhaps a lesser vein would do. Believe it or not I'm much more mellow than I was 10 years ago.

John, I occupy a different position from everyone else in this thread.

I am not a collector, a part-time maker or a full-time maker. I am a full time custom knife Entrepreneur. As such my view's and opinions of the custom knife market in general and the after market specifically, will be different from everyone else's.

When people rally for Giraffe bone, but yet have none in their collection. Doesn't that seem odd? After all if it was such a great material wouldn't you have several knives in your collection with it??

The Blade Show offers an exceptional selection of knives...all types. 400 plus tables of custom knives provides an exceptional cross section of the custom knife community. No where is this more evident than in the custom knife judging. No one submits a knife that they are "Sure will lose!" I have been judging at that particular show for over 14 years. I love it. Why, because you get a snapshot in one place of what the makers are doing.

I only judge every other year. So when I compare my notes from previous years (specifically looking for trends and fads from previous years) it is very easy to see what is in favor, out of favor or going out of favor.

See the knife makers talk amongst themselves. They tell their knife maker friends what sells and does not sell. This helps to establish a trend for a particular period of time.

So when you get a chance to look at 200- 300 custom knives at a time...all styles. You can get a pretty good feel for what is happening out there.

Timing will also bring to the front a new style or is pricing.

Giraffe bone showed up as a substitute when Stag started going up and/or became hard to find.

Giraffe bone was inexpensive and easy to work. Then they started getting into the "dyed" rainbow color Giraffe bone...UGLY. What has shaken out is the brown and tanned coloring which on some knives looks good.

If you like how it looks then you should buy it. Just understand that now Sheep Horn is gaining favor. Stag will start to show up again in better pieces at the major shows( still a little expensive) and that Camel bone is probably going to replace Giraffe bone with some makers due directly to the cost of the material.

You should come to the Blade Show and attend my seminar with Bob Neal. Lot's of humor, lot's of opinions, lots of great information. I've been told that my body language and facial expressions show my passion for knives that to some seems to be lost with the written word only on BF and other internet sites.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
Now to be clear, I'm by no means rallying for Giraffe bone, just saying that some pieces look good (as examples shown above) and some folks like the nicer examples.

And I don't believe that a collector that owns such a knife (as the Sendero above) is stuck with it for eternity unless it's given as a gift.
 
Hi Kevin,

I never said that people would be stuck with them for eternity. They will just have a smaller section of the custom knife buying public that will be interested.

Im glad you are now clarifying your position on Giraffe bone. :D

The knife, because it is a Fisk, is older and the person who bought it probably got it right at $1,200 or less will be fine. The same probably could not be said of a maker not in the same position as Jerry.

Worse case scenario he can always send it back to Jerry to get it re-handled. :thumbup:

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrpreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
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