A Simple Statement

[Fferrell1]

That is one rugged lock though sir. :thumbup: If you really did 8K reps that hard, I'm not going to worry about my locks cuz I don't wrist flick...

Dido that ^ . That video is like watching a BMW get crashed into a tree to test the airbags.

 

[Big Mike]

Dido that ^ . That video is like watching a BMW get crashed into a tree to test the airbags.

And they test crash cars everyday.

I applaud CRK's for diving this deeply into this can of worms.


Waiting patiently for more information.


Will this be a game changer?

 

[Adamar]

To Flick or Not to Flick. That is the question.

I would like clarification from CRK if flicking is abuse or not, and whether or not flicking causes excessive lock damage. It appears 8,000 flicks does not cause the damage, then how many flicks does cause damage? Or does flicking along never cause the type of excessive damage we see in the video? Are all the CRK customers who claim lock bar damage do to opening the knife lying?

In the meantime, I offer 2 solutions to this supposed "problem":

1. Use the knife as you would use any fine, high quality, instrument/tool. Open gently without flicking and use the knife as intended.
2. Flick the hell out of the knife and setup up a $10 a month CRK insurance fund. In about a year, you will have enough saved up to pay for a replacement locking scale.

 

[LMT66]

One of two user L-Sebenza's I own. I had it apart for cleaning so I snapped a couple pictures. I estimate this particular folder has been opened 55,000 times. The lockbar has no nicks in it and is flat. I don't "wrist-flick" to open but I do open hard with the thumbstud. Has a consistent 35% lockup with zero issues. Well done CR Knives.

 

[maxbelg]

I am personally convinced that the Sebenza is one hell-of-a-tough knife and that all the damaged locks are due to extreme abuse. Having said that I don't think the type of damage shown is caused by flicking the knife. Flicking open the knife should damage the stop sleeve and pin and not so much the lock-bar. I would expect the lock-bar to become damaged like that with massive spine-whacks and maybe batening the knife etc. So to me it seems that flicking is relatively harmless as seen on the video(especially if one doesn't wrist-flick) Still I don't flick my pocket knives because I'm way past 18 and I'm not a Ninja!!!

Spine-whacking is probably a big no-no however and I believe constitutes real abuse. The knife is designed for cutting and therefore the forces are in the opposite direction and the lock is only designed to prevent it closing on your fingers. As such it should not be super-super strong but rather super-super reliable. I believe the lock of the Sebenza is one of the most reliable if not the most reliable in use, because of the hand position enforcing the lock when gripped tight and more than 20 years of proof in the field as opposed to hanging some weight by the tip in some experimental setting.

I'm sure if one treats a Sebenza with some basic respect and doesn't abuse it, it will outlast all of us posting here on the internet.

 

[iamsmiling]

I am personally convinced that the Sebenza is one hell-of-a-tough knife and that all the damaged locks are due to extreme abuse. Having said that I don't think the type of damage shown is caused by flicking the knife. Flicking open the knife should damage the stop sleeve and pin and not so much the lock-bar. I would expect the lock-bar to become damaged like that with massive spine-whacks and maybe batening the knife etc. So to me it seems that flicking is relatively harmless as seen on the video(especially if one doesn't wrist-flick) Still I don't flick my pocket knives because I'm way past 18 and I'm not a Ninja!!!

Spine-whacking is probably a big no-no however and I believe constitutes real abuse. The knife is designed for cutting and therefore the forces are in the opposite direction and the lock is only designed to prevent it closing on your fingers. As such it should not be super-super strong but rather super-super reliable. I believe the lock of the Sebenza is one of the most reliable if not the most reliable in use, because of the hand position enforcing the lock when gripped tight and more than 20 years of proof in the field as opposed to hanging some weight by the tip in some experimental setting.

I'm sure if one treats a Sebenza with some basic respect and doesn't abuse it, it will outlast all of us posting here on the internet.

You're on track here. Watching the video then seeing the lock face afterwards and comparing that to the two examples of thoroughly trashed lock faces makes it apparent that spine whacking or something way beyond anything I'd ever do to a relatively small folding knife is the culprit. I would imagine the force needed to deform the lock face like that is in line with taking a hammer to the knife. I'm not sure how they did it without deforming the entire knife or cracking the blade.

The video also gave me confidence that the dozen or so times per year I may flip the knife open like they did, while not good for the knife, probably won't ruin it.

 

[Tripton]

One of two user L-Sebenza's I own. I had it apart for cleaning so I snapped a couple pictures. I estimate this particular folder has been opened 55,000 times. The lockbar has no nicks in it and is flat. I don't "wrist-flick" to open but I do open hard with the thumbstud. Has a consistent 35% lockup with zero issues. Well done CR Knives.

Awesome.

I must ask though...if the lockup is only at 35%....why is the wear on the lockbar all the way across the face?

 

[LMT66]

Awesome.

I must ask though...if the lockup is only at 35%....why is the wear on the lockbar all the way across the face?

Is it wear? "Flaking"? Looks pretty normal to me for a user. No pitting or uneven surface felt on it.
Looks more like years of use, cleaning scuffs, micro screw driver marks from moving lint and other debri's out from it and whatever else happens to the surface of a metal. Call it lock-bar liver spots. I've aquired a few of those myself after years of life.

Click

 

[cziv]

Is it wear? "Flaking"? Looks pretty normal to me for a user. No pitting or uneven surface felt on it.
Looks more like years of use, cleaning scuffs, micro screw driver marks from moving lint and other debri's out from it and whatever else happens to the surface of a metal. Call it lock-bar liver spots. I've aquired a few of those myself after years of life.

Click

Congrats on 8K posts LMT66 (I can PM you my info for my congratulatory Sebenza ) :thumbup:

That said, you quoted Tripton but never answered his question which is btw, a good question. How'd that 65% of wear show up?

 

[Haze]

The lock bar/face can always be pushed past the point it likes to sit at on the tang. That is why it looks like that, it's the same on my Umnumzaan too but you only see it on the blade obviously.

 

[LMT66]

Congrats on 8K posts LMT66 (I can PM you my info for my congratulatory Sebenza ) :thumbup:

That said, you quoted Tripton but never answered his question which is btw, a good question. How'd that 65% of wear show up?

Thanks!

As for the wear...... I see no wear on my lockbar. Wouldn't wear show up as a surface no longer even? I see surface discoloration but felt no wear nor did I see any with a straight edge across it.

 

[lambertiana]

There is a reason I don't flick any of my knives, and it bothers me when someone looks at one of mine and insists on flicking it. I just don't get it.

That being said, my scientific background leads me to ask a question that needs to be addressed if this is to be called a scientific examination of the issue. Chris showed that his sample knife was able to endure a large number of hard flicks without significant damage. Now, did he do any testing of the lockbars of the test knife and the "abused" knives to determine if the "abused" knives did not have a defect, either in the surface hardening or the titanium itself?

Without that information, this test is incomplete and can't be called a true scientific examination. I'm not saying that the knives in question were not abused, I do not know the answer to that question because I was not there (nor were most of the others who have posted their opinion on that subject). But it would be instructive to at least be able to eliminate this possibility before coming to a conclusion.

Think of it this way - when an airliner crashes, they do a lot of comparison testing with other aircraft like it. But at the same time they will examine the crashed aircraft to determine if there were flaws or damage of some kind in that particular aircraft. Just because the whole aircraft used for comparison did not have hairline cracks in the wing struts, for example, does not mean that the crashed aircraft did not have them. That would be an error in logic.

 

[Big Mike]

There is a reason I don't flick any of my knives, and it bothers me when someone looks at one of mine and insists on flicking it. I just don't get it.

That being said, my scientific background leads me to ask a question that needs to be addressed if this is to be called a scientific examination of the issue. Chris showed that his sample knife was able to endure a large number of hard flicks without significant damage. Now, did he do any testing of the lockbars of the test knife and the "abused" knives to determine if the "abused" knives did not have a defect, either in the surface hardening or the titanium itself?

Without that information, this test is incomplete and can't be called a true scientific examination. I'm not saying that the knives in question were not abused, I do not know the answer to that question because I was not there (nor were most of the others who have posted their opinion on that subject). But it would be instructive to at least be able to eliminate this possibility before coming to a conclusion.

Think of it this way - when an airliner crashes, they do a lot of comparison testing with other aircraft like it. But at the same time they will examine the crashed aircraft to determine if there were flaws or damage of some kind in that particular aircraft. Just because the whole aircraft used for comparison did not have hairline cracks in the wing struts, for example, does not mean that the crashed aircraft did not have them. That would be an error in logic.

Correct.


Test one knife, and you know how that knife holds up.


Test a hundred random knives and at least you'll have some sample data to analyze.



That said, I still give them credit for getting into this.




Big Mike

 

[cziv]

Did you read the part in this thread where CRK is going to be getting back to us with more info. In the meantime he is doing exactly what you wrote. "a lot of comparison testing with other knives like it"

 

[Tripton]

Thanks!

As for the wear...... I see no wear on my lockbar. Wouldn't wear show up as a surface no longer even? I see surface discoloration but felt no wear nor did I see any with a straight edge across it.

Looks like the oxide coating is worn across the whole face. No deformation though, so hell, I think it looks great.


I'd probably argue about the 35%....looks more like 50% on the vid. Really though, who cares?? Looks like you have about another 400 years of use with that knife available to you.

 

[sh00ter01]

Looks like the oxide coating is worn across the whole face. No deformation though...

Yeah, the oxide coating look like it's pretty well gone. I can't tell if it's the image or if there is a small amount of deformation along the base of the chamfer on the leading edge of the lock bar.

EDIT: Added arrows to pic for clarification

-sh00ter

 

[JustinFournier]

Yeah, the oxide coating look like it's pretty well gone. I can't tell if it's the image or if there is a small amount of deformation along the base of the chamfer on the leading edge of the lock bar.

EDIT: Added arrows to pic for clarification

-sh00ter

I agree 100%, there is pretty clear deformation in this pic.

 

[Ken44]

His(LMT66) lock bar is fine, as he said. When you look at things with a macro lens it really makes things look much worse than they actually are. We see that often here on BF.

 

[sh00ter01]

His(shOOter01) lock bar is fine, as he said. When you look at things with a macro lens it really makes things look much worse than they actually are. We see that often here on BF.

That's why I said it may just be the image. Either way, if he's fine with it and isn't experiencing problems (like rock lock), then it's a non issue.

-sh00ter

 

[RetiredGuns]

If the 55000 times opening is accurate then that is 30 openings a day for 5 years straight. I don't generally play with my knives so my openings are probably around 10 a day so if my lock bar looks like this in 15 years I will be thrilled!