A Simple Statement

[sh00ter01]

Perhaps he wanted to delve into the "doesn't have a damned idea what the hell happened to the knife before he got it" "crap".


For all he knows, it could have been used to stab refrigerators, or it could have been duct taped to a broom stick and used to drive nails with the spine of the blade.

And the pictures of the flaking area, suck.

Again, would CRK have done work on the knife if it was beat to shit. Doubt it. It was in good enough condition to service and send back out the door to wolf.

-sh00ter

 

[Socom Elite]

So wrist flicking doesn't put excess wear on the lockbar. Is that what CRK is telling us

I really don't see how it would wear the lock bar any differently if you slam it open. The only thing that might get deformed from slamming it open should be either the stop pin or the blade tang. Those are the only 2 things that are involved in opening the knife.

The deformed lockbar can be from testing the lock strength or stupid spinewacks but its probably from trying to close the blade while the lock is not all the way out of the way. That's the reason I DO NOT LIKE LBS. they prevent you getting good clearence of the lockbar and blade.

My lockbars on my Sebenzas are a little deformed too. Still lock up good though. I'll try and post some pics later

 

[RiverRat84]

This sucks on so many levels.

Knife enthusiasts are passionate.

We take and post pics of our knives
We take and post videos of our knives.
we spend x amount of time on internet discussion forums discussing our knives.
Some of us spend enough on just one that would cover a car payment, rent, on and on. We aren't always easy to please.

Think of the phone calls and emails these people get daily over every single thing. Not to mention taking time to flick flick flick a knife they've spent years working on just to appease the same people that probably irritate the living sh*t out of them. And it won't matter really. Someone will say the testing wasn't done correctly, or it proves nothing, or facts had to of been ommited in the process. That sh*t takes time away from production of knives that we'll most likely end up paying for anyway.

I know, I know it's there job, but humanity is going to play a role at some point and when you've spent your life to create something to see it picked over or people making videos whacking the spine over tables and cinder blocks saying "well see, the lock failed and the spine chipped so obviously CRK is just hype!", well that's got to sting a little and may result in stress, might result in employees being a little defensive when costumers call with issues, may result in someone getting cussed out, or items leaving the factory not totally in spec.

The problem progresses to the point where legitimate issues with a product may not be taken as seriously as they should because they are floating in a wide sea of paranoia and complaints.

After thousands of emails nit picking every little thing it might be hard at times to be understanding when the next person calls with something seriously wrong with their knife. Keep in context if someone looses their cool with you aren't the first person they've dealt with today and you won't be the last.

None of this is directed at anyone. None of this is judgment or attack. I've done my fair share of taking up their time with calls about stripped screws that were my doing to excess fluorinated grease on my Seb out of the box. I'm just a dude on the internet that loves his Sebenzas and would hate to see a perspective newbie miss out on the joy of a damn well built product due to paranoia and misunderstanding.

Ok nicotine is wearing off. Sorry for the rant

 

[Tripton]

Again, would CRK have done work on the knife if it was beat to shit. Doubt it. It was in good enough condition to service and send back out the door to wolf.

-sh00ter

They did NOT repair the issue.

They looked at it and sent it back because it was "abused". Are you talking about the same knife?

 

[blade2klean]

wolf, didn't you say in a past thread you bought the seb used. I may be mixing you up, but if not, you've dodged the question in 2-3 threads

As stated in this tread http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/930159-up-and-down-blade-play-Pictures-added wolf bought the knife used from someone who had the same problem with another of his knives. What are the odds?

 

[blade2klean]

This is going to a he said she said thing, and he noted the play and said the knife was from a trade he did. It is against forum rules to interfere with anyone's sale thread here on BF. So, if she had a problem with, she should have handled it with him privately, or bring it to a moderator's attention and since a mod has the for sale thread back open all is fine with the rules. He also did not say nobody would notice he mentioned it. Again, I do not know the guy, and maybe he trying to pull a fast one, but his feedback is good, and that is all I can go off, but she broke forum rules, that is plain and simple and a representative of a company should not represent her company in such a manner. It looks really bad.

I’ll admit I made a mistake in the placement of my post concerning the knife wolf was trying to sell. At the time I didn’t realize it wasn’t allowed. After the fact, I emailed one of the mods to let them know about it. In my defense, all I was trying to do was to prevent a bladeforum member from unknowing purchasing a knife that needed a $130 lock.

 

[pilote]

...but its probably from trying to close the blade while the lock is not all the way out of the way. That's the reason I DO NOT LIKE LBS. they prevent you getting good clearence of the lockbar and blade.

My lockbars on my Sebenzas are a little deformed too. Still lock up good though. I'll try and post some pics later

...oh come on; there is PLENTY of clearance to close a Umumzaan with an LBS, i do it everyday without even looking since the day i got it...that zaan lock bar is stiff, i'll bet for good reason; hence the addition of LBS to keep the weak-thumbed from making a "lock bar adjustment" that will ruin the lock...must have been a serious issue for CRK to design it in...the hard use Hinderer XM's have it because it's easy to over-push that lock bar when wearing gloves...and i believe Umnumzaan is considered CR's hard duty knife...

so let's be honest here...the real reason is, you just don't like the way it looks on there LOL...

 

[Professor]

Based on drilling ti with cobalt bits...

Pain don't hurt, and titanium don't chip or flake. It's almost a gummy material that marrs, dings, and dents.

What folks are describing as "flaking" or "deformation" is the normal compression a face wear of softer ti (although hardened with treatment) against hardened S30V.

The big hunks of what appears to be ti missing in pics earlier in this thread is not that at all. It's where the ti was marred, either against the blade tang or otherwise.

Whether or not the ti hardening treatment or lack thereof gave way to this marring is really the only question.

This thread has hit 8 pages and I'm starting to lose focus on what the issues really are. I am but a man.

Prof.

 

[nccole]

I’ll admit I made a mistake in the placement of my post concerning the knife wolf was trying to sell. At the time I didn’t realize it wasn’t allowed. After the fact, I emailed one of the mods to let them know about it. In my defense, all I was trying to do was to prevent a bladeforum member from unknowing purchasing a knife that needed a $130 lock.

I appreciate your admitting wrong-doing and your concern for someone you suspect might be trying to burn someone else, but as a representative of a well respected company, you should know those rules from day one. I feel you are held to a higher standard than just anybody on this site. Again, I do appreciate your intentions of protecting the general public and your company.

 

[blade2klean]

I appreciate your admitting wrong-doing and your concern for someone you suspect might be trying to burn someone else, but as a representative of a well respected company, you should know those rules from day one. I feel you are held to a higher standard than just anybody on this site. Again, I do appreciate your intentions of protecting the general public and your company.

I do feel we are getting off track so this will be my last post on this topic. I need to remind you CRK is not my company. I did not post under the “Chris Reeve” name, I posted under my own. I work for CRK but I am also an individual who has her own ideas and makes her own mistakes.

 

[nccole]

I do feel we are getting off track so this will be my last post on this topic. I need to remind you CRK is not my company. I did not post under the “Chris Reeve” name, I posted under my own. I work for CRK but I am also an individual who has her own ideas and makes her own mistakes.

Fair enough, we have gotten off track.

 

[sh00ter01]

They did NOT repair the issue.

They looked at it and sent it back because it was "abused". Are you talking about the same knife?

Maybe not cause you're off on your info here. They DID re-heat treated the lock bar face for him. They also took $100+ from him for other work and refinishing (silver hardware, etc.). Be a pretty dick move for a company to take money from a customer for a knife that's in a severely hampered state due to abuse.

Based on drilling ti with cobalt bits...

Pain don't hurt, and titanium don't chip or flake. It's almost a gummy material that marrs, dings, and dents.

What folks are describing as "flaking" or "deformation" is the normal compression a face wear of softer ti (although hardened with treatment) against hardened S30V.

The big hunks of what appears to be ti missing in pics earlier in this thread is not that at all. It's where the ti was marred, either against the blade tang or otherwise.

Whether or not the ti hardening treatment or lack thereof gave way to this marring is really the only question.

This thread has hit 8 pages and I'm starting to lose focus on what the issues really are. I am but a man.

Prof.

Your right Ti doesn't flake, it's too soft. BUT the oxide layer that's built up from heat treating the lock face can. It's been chalk up to abusive flicking, but the 'test' show even 8,000 heavy wrist snaps had minimal effect on the lockface. It doesn't add up. Again hopefully their (CRK's) future post will shed some more light on the subject.


-sh00ter

 

[Professor]

Your right Ti doesn't flake, it's too soft. BUT the oxide layer that's built up from heat treating the lock face can. It's been chalk up to abusive flicking, but the 'test' show even 8,000 heavy wrist snaps had minimal effect on the lockface. It doesn't add up. Again hopefully their (CRK's) future post will shed some more light on the subject.

I'm with ya here, except that I still believe it's more of a wear/polishing of the lockbar face occuring moreso than actual flaking. Maybe on a microscopic level, it's the same thing. I just not sure that a hardened steel insert, like on the LionSteel SR-1, albeit harder, wouldn't react the same, albeit slower. The same effect on the ti lockface in essence that occurs to the rest of the handle over time with constant pocket insertion, etc. where it scuffs due to wearing/smoothing down of the micro-fine blasted ti surface.

Whatever the case, the stuff pictured early on in this thread with the big-honkin' gouges out of the lockface are the result of some sort of blunt trauma to the lockface. Either by traumatic impact from the blade tang or something else.

Prof.

 

[Darth Detori]

Here's what mine looks like:

The damage to my lock is reminiscent of the picture CRK posted. I'd love to hear they're analysis of why this is since it clearly isn't the hard flicking I was accused of. Given that the only downward pressure ever applied was on the jimping as one would during a hard cutting task, I have to conclude that again I either have a lemon or all of them can't withstand low to moderate pressure against the lock.

An alternate theory of mine is that this is the result of closing the blade slightly too early and the resulting pressure against the lock causes titanium to chip away over time. That said I clear the lockbar 99% of the time, which again means it isn't strong enough.

 

[Darth Detori]

Oh yeah and lock side is b 09

 

[JNewell]

You aren't by any chance a US DA in regular daily life?

I appreciate your admitting wrong-doing and your concern for someone you suspect might be trying to burn someone else, but as a representative of a well respected company, you should know those rules from day one. I feel you are held to a higher standard than just anybody on this site. Again, I do appreciate your intentions of protecting the general public and your company.

 

[kreole]

The damage to my lock is reminiscent of the picture CRK posted. I'd love to hear they're analysis of why this is since it clearly isn't the hard flicking I was accused of. Given that the only downward pressure ever applied was on the jimping as one would during a hard cutting task, I have to conclude that again I either have a lemon or all of them can't withstand low to moderate pressure against the lock.

An alternate theory of mine is that this is the result of closing the blade slightly too early and the resulting pressure against the lock causes titanium to chip away over time. That said I clear the lockbar 99% of the time, which again means it isn't strong enough.

Here is mine from my sole CRK with the same problem; it's similar to yours

I was told it was either extreme flicking or 20k or more openings. In the thread about it (http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/790605-Is-it-normal-for-a-lockbar-to-dent-like-this), I wondered the same thing as you, if pressing the blade closed before the lock bar is fully out of the way could be the culprit. That was my first brand new CRK (second total), so with all the stories of lock bars being ruined through overextension, I had tried to press it over as little as possible, and sometimes that meant hitting the lock bar with the blade before it was fully out of the way. Looking at both of our lock bars, you can see the dent goes right to the detent ball. I don't understand how flicking would cause damage on the side like that. Whether opened very fast (flicking hard) or slow (standard opening), it seems like the same amount of force would be put on the side of the lock bar, just the spring tension from the lock bar trying to move over. On the other hand, not having the lock bar out of the way before the blade is pressed in would cause damage all the way from the detent ball to the lock face. It definitely seems like a possible reason for it.


off topic: earlier I said Mr. Reeve said the sole cause of my problem could be 20k openings. Rereading that thread of mine, he clearly said extreme flicking could also be the culprit. I guess I should've reread it since it's been ~1.5 years, and clearly I forgot the whole conversation. I guess I kept in mind the 20k openings as the only possible culprit given since it wasn't flicked like that. Anyway, sorry for the confusion.

 

[wolf5391]

All in all I have seen multiple people come to light about these issues and there is obviously something wrong.

The company will accusse me of abuse? so be it, and I wont purchase any more of there products. More sebenzas to buy for you guys

This is my final post in this thread, I have tried to drill a point that cannot be understood by many people. Anything can be a "dud"/ "lemon" and thats why theres a warranty department. If the warranty doesnt honor legitamite wear from use and not abused then what good is it? In the end I have learned My lesson and unfortunately have learned not to trust crks warranty or employees.

Good day to everyone, and have a nice day

 

[nccole]

You aren't by any chance a US DA in regular daily life?

Well, since I am not positive what a US DA is (United States district attorney?), and what exactly you are getting at, I will say no for now, but if you want to explain further, maybe I am.

 

[flipe8]

I've just read through the entire thread with interest. I've carried a CRK folder as my primary EDC going on 7 years now and absolutely consider myself a fan, but my Small Regular has very similar marks along the edge of the lockbar as those pictured in this thread from different members. I don't flick mine. Period. There's no blade-play, so it doesn't concern me, but I wouldn't be pleased if someone told me I abused the knife, either. I also think it has to do with the lockbar sliding over the harder steel of the blade during openings and closings. Hopefully, this gets settled to most everyone's satisfaction.