A2 Steel Update

AF said:
For those who missed it, Demko just posted that the Trailmaster, Recon Scount and Kukri Plus will also be be offered in 3V. Sounds like CS got the message.
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Yes and i think the tide has turned, and i think this thread needs to now head in the opposite direction.From everything negative to everything positive.The next positive thing is that Mr Demko said "when we went to Taiwan" which means that these knives will probably WONT be made in China; thats the second bit of good news next to the offering in 3v.
 
Smiling said:
And yeah, Lynn just told us CS will use 4034 and why they chose it, plus he told us how good it is in his opinion.

3V versions of those knives were never mentioned until now, and if they were - all this would be a lot easier to swallow and we would understand.
And Cold Steel would spare themself from 20 pages of roast and some threads on General Knife Discussion...
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It could very well be that all of our complaining on this thread made them decide to do the 3V versions. Don't you think it's strange that they would suddenly announce this info now, after 20 pages of complaining? If they had really intended to do this from the start, why didn't Lynn Thompson announce it in his original letter, the first post in this thread?

Don't get me wrong, it's great news. I'm mighty glad Andrew Demko said that they'll be making 3V versions of all the 8mm thick knives.
 
Chris_Texas said:
With all respect, I think that's insane. There is no way in hell a 4034 Trailmaster would be worth more than $40-$50 bucks regardless of the sheath. Whatever Cold Steel is trying to spin, 4034 is cheap low-grade steel. Period. The Outdoorsman Lite, with a 6" 4034 blade, sells for $20. TWENTY DOLLARS. The Cold Steel Black Bear Bowie, with a 12" blade of 1055 steel, lists for $25 on BladeHQ. Again, that's with a 12" blade. If you want something a bit more upscale, you can get the Boker Magnum Giant Bowie with a 8.1" blade for the low price of only $47. It's quite handsome with a metal pommel, stacked leather handle, leather sheath with a whetstone pocket, and in 440 steel it's certainly no worse than a 4034 Trailmaster.

Again, only $47.

Now myself, I wouldn't personally buy a 4034 Trailmaster at ANY price. I am not saying that to be mean to anyone who buys one and loves it, but a 4034 Trailmaster is just not for me.
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We're only trying to guess what a fair market price for a low end stainless Trailmaster would be.
Outdoorsman: 6 inch blade is a much smaller knife than the TM
Black Bear Bowie: isn't that a quasi machete? 1055 steel, I think that's made in South Africa. Only .11 thick. You can't compare this to a TM.
Boker Magnum Giant Bowie: this is made in PRC, although the steel might be from Germany. And again, smaller knife, only 8 inch blade
Even if made out of low end stainless, the TM is an excellent design, a classic design. And if made in Taiwan, with Japanese steel, that's what I think it would be worth. (Just my own opinion/prediction)

I absolutely agree with you that I wouldn't buy a 4034 TM at any price. And yeah, the Black Bear Bowie would be a much better buy, even though it's a different kind of knife.
 
Chris_Texas said:
There is undoubtedly a demand for the very best. But the discussion here isn't about that. This thread is about the upgrade to A2 that your customers spent the last two years waiting for. The point of A2 was that it was a theoretically significant upgrade from O1. This is why people have waited. But instead of the promised A2, we are being offered 4034. 4034 is not a comparable replacement for A2, nor is it a comparable replacement for the older O1. It is probably not even comparable to SK5.

It's cheap sub-budget grade stainless steel, which is why the 4034 Outdoorsman Lite sells for twenty bucks.

You guys can sell $50 Trailmasters and $40 Recon Scouts if you think that's the best course for the company, but personally I think you guys have lost the plot and are seriously damaging your reputation. Make great knives using great steel, knives you can be proud to sell or own, then sell them for a fair price. That's it.
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Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly. Even if they do offer a high end steel like 3V for these knives, it's just seems the wrong direction to offer a cheap low end stainless version. (I admit I have a prejudice against stainless, maybe from reading Bill Bagwell's book on bowies.) The cheap version should be made of a carbon steel, like 1080-1085. The high end version will save some face for the company, of course, but it doesn't make the low end stainless knives any better. Making the low end with 4034 will end up damaging CS reputation.

4034 is definitely not in the same conversation as SK5. Back when they were using SK5, it was supposedly Japanese steel. Predictably enough, it was of high quality. It was very tough and had decent edge retention and sharpened easily.
 
deadzonepatrol said:
Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly. Even if they do offer a high end steel like 3V for these knives, it's just seems the wrong direction to offer a cheap low end stainless version. (I admit I have a prejudice against stainless, maybe from reading Bill Bagwell's book on bowies.) The cheap version should be made of a carbon steel, like 1080-1085. The high end version will save some face for the company, of course, but it doesn't make the low end stainless knives any better. Making the low end with 4034 will end up damaging CS reputation.

4034 is definitely not in the same conversation as SK5. Back when they were using SK5, it was supposedly Japanese steel. Predictably enough, it was of high quality. It was very tough and had decent edge retention and sharpened easily.
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I’m still hoping for a carbon steel as well instead of stainless, but if we can’t have everything, the 3V announcement is still good news. They said that A2 isn’t strictly out of the game yet, so there is that. Perhaps if it can be obtained from a different reputable source, I’d love some A2 for the big knives.
 
DemkoKnives said:
I am not sure 52100 is available in sheet/plate form , A-2 is a good upgrade over sk5 and O-1 , for those knives . We wanted to improve the knife overall, failing that we decided to hit the lower and higher level with 4034 and 3v. Pending the success of the kukri+ , recon scout and trailmaster in 3v we intend to offer the other 8mm thick stuff in 3v. Unfortunately 3v is really hard to manufacture especially in those large thick blades, and really expensive
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I'm sure it will take a year or two. We can be patient, these are great designs and they deserve a high end steel.

I wish they'd make an A2 version by contracting out to Bark River or some other company here in the USA. Doesn't Hogue also use A2 a lot? I think Hogue is made in USA too. Bark River makes great leather sheaths. It would put the price around $350 for a Laredo, but it would be worth every penny.
 
As in life we agree with some disagree with most.
This turns positive when Cold Steel produces what they advertise in a timely manner.
Will customers still be waiting on a new trail master in any steel in 2022??
No one has given a timeline on the new models and look where we are with a2 promise.
The fact remains if I can remember correctly late 2018 Cold Steel advertised A2 steel knives.
It took this long to finally come clean after months of empty promises. We will never know the timeline that I would love to know on this decision. This would be an issue of using over seas suppliers that refuse to honor the contract and probably having no litigation influence to provide what the contract enforces.
Cold steel has been bad in the past advertising products and never releasing them. In the past they have also released and advertised products the same time. No I do not own a production company yet as a consumer I would think the latter of having products ready to release when they are advertised to be the best way to satisfy and not disappoint loyal customers.
Thompson did say in his second post he HOPED to release 3 models in 3V in the near future and they will be expensive. I wonder when in the timeline this decision was made and availability???
I certainly appreciate Mr. Demko taking time to enter the discussion on this that should have been said by Thompson on his very first post IF it was accurate then. Was it???? Did everyone here make a difference?? GOOD FOR YOU speak out on what you will accept.


I am not a knowledgeable person on metals. I may have missed the posting and if I did my apologies:
I would really appreciate in any knowledge where the san mai steel stand with all these, A2, or 3v.
I have never used my san mai trail master for hard use. I did use and abuse a san mai srk and the edge ended up badly damaged too easy for my liking.

I think this has been a great forum for everyone to express their thoughts, opinions, dissatisfaction and also share their knowledge with others like me who don't have that knowledge.
Thank you for your time
 
Smiling said:
And yeah, Lynn just told us CS will use 4034 and why they chose it, plus he told us how good it is in his opinion.

3V versions of those knives were never mentioned until now, and if they were - all this would be a lot easier to swallow and we would understand.
And Cold Steel would spare themself from 20 pages of roast and some threads on General Knife Discussion...
Click to expand...

That's because at the time there wasn't any thought of 3V Trailmasters. It wasn't mentioned on page one in the initial announcement, or on Mr Thompson's update on page 10.

The question everyone from Cold Steel keeps carefully dodging is obvious: WHY NOT CONTINUE WITH O1 or some other tool steel? Basically every person in this thread has asked some variation of this simple question. Why is Cold Steel suggesting low-grade stainless as a replacement for mid-grade tool steel -- unless the entire point is to cash in at the expense of trusting customers.
 
goldie said:
Yes and i think the tide has turned, and i think this thread needs to now head in the opposite direction.From everything negative to everything positive.The next positive thing is that Mr Demko said "when we went to Taiwan" which means that these knives will probably WONT be made in China; thats the second bit of good news next to the offering in 3v.
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No not made in china
 
gatorsnake said:
As in life we agree with some disagree with most.
This turns positive when Cold Steel produces what they advertise in a timely manner.
Will customers still be waiting on a new trail master in any steel in 2022??
No one has given a timeline on the new models and look where we are with a2 promise.
The fact remains if I can remember correctly late 2018 Cold Steel advertised A2 steel knives.
It took this long to finally come clean after months of empty promises. We will never know the timeline that I would love to know on this decision. This would be an issue of using over seas suppliers that refuse to honor the contract and probably having no litigation influence to provide what the contract enforces.
Cold steel has been bad in the past advertising products and never releasing them. In the past they have also released and advertised products the same time. No I do not own a production company yet as a consumer I would think the latter of having products ready to release when they are advertised to be the best way to satisfy and not disappoint loyal customers.
Thompson did say in his second post he HOPED to release 3 models in 3V in the near future and they will be expensive. I wonder when in the timeline this decision was made and availability???
I certainly appreciate Mr. Demko taking time to enter the discussion on this that should have been said by Thompson on his very first post IF it was accurate then. Was it???? Did everyone here make a difference?? GOOD FOR YOU speak out on what you will accept.


I am not a knowledgeable person on metals. I may have missed the posting and if I did my apologies:
I would really appreciate in any knowledge where the san mai steel stand with all these, A2, or 3v.
I have never used my san mai trail master for hard use. I did use and abuse a san mai srk and the edge ended up badly damaged too easy for my liking.

I think this has been a great forum for everyone to express their thoughts, opinions, dissatisfaction and also share their knowledge with others like me who don't have that knowledge.
Thank you for your time
Click to expand...

If you read the reviews on various retail websites there are (or at least were) several mentions of Cold Steel's San Mai failing under use. It's been a thing for years, just like the issues with secure-ex sheaths. As a result, I have never bought a San Mai for anything other than collecting and owning. I have long felt that this is why Cold Steel has the two versions -- the San Mai Stainless for collecting and display, and a tool steel version for beating the crap out of.
 
Chris_Texas said:
That's because at the time there wasn't any thought of 3V Trailmasters. It wasn't mentioned on page one in the initial announcement, or on Mr Thompson's update on page 10.

The question everyone from Cold Steel keeps carefully dodging is obvious: WHY NOT CONTINUE WITH O1 or some other tool steel? Basically every person in this thread has asked some variation of this simple question. Why is Cold Steel suggesting low-grade stainless as a replacement for mid-grade tool steel -- unless the entire point is to cash in at the expense of trusting customers.
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Ultimately, that's gotta be the real reason, to cash in on the low end of the market. Cynical yes, but all companies raison d'etre is to make profits. Offering a high end steel choice wouldn't change the fact that they're basically "selling out", making low end garbage to get quick profits. Not good for the company's reputation. It certainly lowers their appeal to me.
 
deadzonepatrol said:
It could very well be that all of our complaining on this thread made them decide to do the 3V versions. Don't you think it's strange that they would suddenly announce this info now, after 20 pages of complaining? If they had really intended to do this from the start, why didn't Lynn Thompson announce it in his original letter, the first post in this thread?

Don't get me wrong, it's great news. I'm mighty glad Andrew Demko said that they'll be making 3V versions of all the 8mm thick knives.
Click to expand...
We have been planning the 3v thick stuff for a long time and working on the manufacturing of the 8mm stuff for over two years. I think Lynn didn't really want to dip his hand on this one because of so many obstacles especially this year. I have not been watching blade form in a long time . I see and have recommend to Cold Steel that we need to pay more attention here. Thank you all for your patience and input.
 
Chris_Texas said:
That's because at the time there wasn't any thought of 3V Trailmasters. It wasn't mentioned on page one in the initial announcement, or on Mr Thompson's update on page 10.

The question everyone from Cold Steel keeps carefully dodging is obvious: WHY NOT CONTINUE WITH O1 or some other tool steel? Basically every person in this thread has asked some variation of this simple question. Why is Cold Steel suggesting low-grade stainless as a replacement for mid-grade tool steel -- unless the entire point is to cash in at the expense of trusting customers.
Click to expand...
sorry not dogging that question, we wanted to improve from 0-1 A2 does that , since that didn't work out we decided to offer low and high range.
 
gatorsnake said:
I would really appreciate in any knowledge where the san mai steel stand with all these, A2, or 3v.
I have never used my san mai trail master for hard use. I did use and abuse a san mai srk and the edge ended up badly damaged too easy for my liking.
Click to expand...
Your guess is as good as mine on San Mai III toughness. Since it's a sandwich steel, a harder stainless surrounded by softer stainless, that really makes it difficult to compare against anything else. Based on your experience though, it seems that it's not anywhere near as tough as A2. And A2 is for sure not as tough as CPM3V, based on the steel charts charpy testing. I have never liked stainless steel in a large knife, a bowie knife.
 
" to cash in on the low end of the market" ; theres nothing wrong with doing that; if everything they offered was in a high end exotic steel they would never survive.A budget line is perfectly fine,you have to come out with products to cater to everyone.Spyderco has their byrd line, Kershaw has those cheap clam pack knives.Maybe people will use them like them see they are offered in higher end versions and wind up with one as well.
 
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