A2 Steel Update

Smiling said:
To sum this up:
Lynn and Cold Steel: *announces 4034 steel instead of A2*
Everyone: *starts roasting Lynn and Cold Steel*
Lynn: *chimes in to give some explanation*
Everyone: "Ohhhh..." *calms down*
...
Everyone: *realizes that Lynn didn't answer real questions, talked about steels we didn't mention and is still throwing sales pitch about 4034 being superior steel*.... *starts to roast Lynn and Cold Steel again"*
Click to expand...
Update:
Andrew Demko: *chimes in and answers all questions while also announcing 3V models as well"
Everyone: *rejoices in happiness :D *

Yeah, this thread really is a rollercoaster with lots of twists.
But, it's not common to see the big heads of companies here on forum talking directly with their fans and giving direct answers to questions.

If only Lynn announced 3V models right away when he announced 4034 then my guess is all this roast would be avoided.
My guess is that it's not easy for Cold Steel to make 8mm thick 3V blades, like Demko said, so Lynn did not want to announce them yet since there's still a chance of something going wrong, and to avoid yet another scenario like what happened with A2. But Demko noticed that letting this here go on would possibly be bad for CS so he decided to chime in and let us know real situation.
 
That's great news 8mm is nice and thick as I have some knives in 7mm and that's thick. I bet you couldn't break one with just your hands. Thanks CS sounds like good news for all the CS knife lovers.
 
Call me simple minded but couldn't they may one in good ol' time tested decades proven 1095, or would that be too plain Jane/me too?
Carbon V, SK5, 52100 would be just fine with me as well. I like the Trail Master enough not to need one in gee-wiz steel.
 
(3v tm = $120) Theres no way the 3v trailmaster is going to be this cheap. The 01 versions were around 130-150 ;if you see what the 3v magnum tantos are going for ,between 200-300.00 thats what the recon scout and trailmaster are probably going to cost as well. (It’s either they changed their mind to deal with the blow back) This 3v thing was in the works long before this thread,Mr Demko even mentioned something about getting a special machine to use for the process of making them,im sure they didnt get that machine last week just because of our temper tantrums,which im guilty of too.(all this roast would be avoided) Haha boy we really let them have it,gotta laugh at it now though !God help anyone who passes a low grade steel off on us !haha !
 
Last edited:
Now I now many are happy about this 3V development but it polarizes the affected knives into very high (3V) and very low (4034). Could Cold Steel (Lynn or Andrew) maybe give their reasoning for not using SK5 or 1095 as the minimum standard for a flagship knife ?
 
dirc said:
Thanks again for joining this thread... the 3v news has all of us excited :D

One point I noticed is LT said ... this was Japan 4034 ... I found the Japan spec for it (I believe) -> it's a bit better than we've heard in this thread http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/JUS/c.4175.shtml

Seems to be 0.4-0.5% carbon, around 14% chrome, 1% Mn and around 0.85% Si

its definitely better than 3cr13 (which is typically the true low end (like the new low end kershaws & schrade's standard steel))

it is (imho) a slightly worse rendition of 420hc... (the lack of V for any grain refinement hurts)
if they do get it to 0.5% carbon instead of the 0.4% low end, it should be similar to 4116 steel (which is the #1 mass produced kitchen knife steel, at least for Europe)

it should be pretty tough & hold up well to general youtube abuse, but I expect after tempering they're only going to get around 56 hrc or 57 if they're lucky


fwiw, here is my humble suggestion for the price breakdown

4034 tm = $30 (the only stainless version - mass market perfect)
52100 tm = $60 (the thrift seeking quality benchmark) (you sell the 36mg for under $40 so this should be feasible)
3v tm = $120 (you'll sell a lot of these -> to bf members ... probably a few thousand?)

extra kudos if you manage to pull off any of the upgraded steels this year :)
Click to expand...
I wish those prices where spot on unfortunately the 3v will be much higher. I know for a fact the trailmaster
goldie said:
(3v tm = $120) Theres no way the 3v trailmaster is going to be this cheap. The 01 versions were around 130-150 ;if you see what the 3v magnum tantos are going for ,between 200-300.00 thats what the recon scout and trailmaster are probably going to cost as well. (It’s either they changed their mind to deal with the blow back) This 3v thing was in the works long before this thread,Mr Demko even mentioned something about getting a special machine to use for the process of making them,im sure they didnt get that machine last week just because of our temper tantrums,which im guilty of too.(all this roast would be avoided) Haha boy we really let them have it,gotta laugh at it now though !God help anyone who passes a low grade steel off on us !haha !
Click to expand...
Your correct , I don't know the retails prices yet (and am not involved in that aspect) I do know that the material and water jet cutting would be already close to 100$ , that's before heat treating and other operations before shipping to Taiwan
 
DemkoKnives said:
I wish those prices where spot on unfortunately the 3v will be much higher. I know for a fact the trailmaster

Your correct , I don't know the retails prices yet (and am not involved in that aspect) I do know that the material and water jet cutting would be already close to 100$ , that's before heat treating and other operations before shipping to Taiwan
Click to expand...

Just curious where the cutting, HT, and "other operations" take place?
 
Which is perfectly reasonable;you mentioned how much harder it is to work with 3v and getting a special machine for it; so naturally its going to cost more.I still think its well worth it; look what Busse and Carothers charges for fixed blades,not to mention Bark River and other makers; they are all way way over 200.00.The Trailmaster, 9.5" long, 5/16" thick thats a lot of 3v including the tang that wont come cheap,thats almost twice the amount of steel as the 9" 3v magnum tanto;people gotta realize that.Its got to be in the 300 range if not slightly more,i would think .
 
Last edited:
DemkoKnives said:
Niagara specialty steel and in PA. then to Taiwan
Click to expand...

Thanks. Find it very interesting that splitting the work between here and Taiwan is more cost effective than just doing it all here. I was thinking everything was done in Taiwan.
 
jlauffer said:
Thanks. Find it very interesting that splitting the work between here and Taiwan is more cost effective than just doing it all here. I was thinking everything was done in Taiwan.[/QUO

We do all that here just to have it heat treated at Peters Heat treat , They have an awesome protocol for 3v. Honestly we really are trying to make the best knife we can.
Click to expand...
 
A.Demko, did you guys ever consider A8(mod) for the hard use knives? Like 3V it's pretty expensive but it does make outstanding large tough knives. It could make a pretty darn impressive Trailmaster. If you are going to import steel into Taiwan you have all kinds of choices including but not limited to 3V.

Much of the local steel industry Taiwan smelts in the PRC and Vietnam etc. ( what a cluster of fiascos that has been for the Vietnamese) and having subpar batches like the A2 you guys tried buying show up isn't really surprising. Even Japan has ties to the PRC steel industry so buying Japanese company steel sent to Taiwan may come from the mainland as does some US steel sold here but that is changing fortunately. Misrepresenting origins and composition of steel is not all that uncommon . The difference is we will send people to prison for that like one person from an American company has found out recently.
 
SALTY said:
Call me simple minded but couldn't they may one in good ol' time tested decades proven 1095, or would that be too plain Jane/me too?
Carbon V, SK5, 52100 would be just fine with me as well. I like the Trail Master enough not to need one in gee-wiz steel.
Click to expand...
In post # 383 above, Andrew Demko said that they "decided to hit the lower and higher level". They must have thought that their sales in the mid-level are slowing and that they'll consequently go for the polar extremes. Not a lot we can do about the plan to go low end, except for moaning and groaning here.
 
A Recon Scout in 3v with the shoulders cut right should make for a really tough blade. Is the thickness going to be the same as the old recon scout in carbon v with a thick tip? Thanks for all the updates and new knives coming out in some great steel.
 
dirc said:
Thanks again for joining this thread... the 3v news has all of us excited :D

One point I noticed is LT said ... this was Japan 4034 ... I found the Japan spec for it (I believe) -> it's a bit better than we've heard in this thread http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/JUS/c.4175.shtml

Seems to be 0.4-0.5% carbon, around 14% chrome, 1% Mn and around 0.85% Si

its definitely better than 3cr13 (which is typically the true low end (like the new low end kershaws & schrade's standard steel))

it is (imho) a slightly worse rendition of 420hc... (the lack of V for any grain refinement hurts)
if they do get it to 0.5% carbon instead of the 0.4% low end, it should be similar to 4116 steel (which is the #1 mass produced kitchen knife steel, at least for Europe)

it should be pretty tough & hold up well to general youtube abuse, but I expect after tempering they're only going to get around 56 hrc or 57 if they're lucky


fwiw, here is my humble suggestion for the price breakdown

4034 tm = $30 (the only stainless version - mass market perfect)
52100 tm = $60 (the thrift seeking quality benchmark) (you sell the 36mg for under $40 so this should be feasible)
3v tm = $120 (you'll sell a lot of these -> to bf members ... probably a few thousand?)

extra kudos if you manage to pull off any of the upgraded steels this year :)
Click to expand...
I'd estimate the Trailmaster in 4034 cost slightly differently. I'd guess most of the cost is in cutting, grinding and polishing the blade, so I'd scale by blade area rather than weight etc. TM: 9.5 x 1.5 = 14.25. Outdoorsman: 6 x 1.1 = 6.6. So slightly more than double Outdoorsman's $25 for a 4034 TM, call it $50-60 street including better handle materials.
Predictions: 1)They will sell a ton of these. 2) At 57.5 HRC, 4034 will give good service.
 
An interesting note; if the steel is made here and cut, heat treated and finished in Taiwan,wouldnt that qualify it for being made in the U.S.? its heat treated and finished in Taiwan,its not actually fabricated there from the begining.
 

Thanks for the information, Andrew. Cold Steel s efforts to maintain high quality and a good price are much appreciated.
 
I find it amazing just how silly the reality of price variance can make across the globe round trips a profitable setup

esp when we have specialty heat treatment companies all over...
esp with covid clogging up normal parcel/mail/shipping options globally for another year

but yes, if you have patience & long time scales available, that should work
 
I am still willing to add my name to a wait list on 1 each of the TM and RS models in 3V. I expect the price would depend on how the knife is finished:

I would gladly pay a premium for Micarta or G10 handles, and a good well fitted and functional kydex or leather sheath would be a serious plus, and even better if the blade is polished. If you are going premium, you may as well strive for the best possible package.

N2s

Are any of you ready to commit to these knives?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top