ABS Expo 2014 Report

Tom Ferry said:
Joe, that maker is one of my heros in the knife community and someone I consider a good friend, successful businessman and confidant with new ideas. A very rare combination in this industry. Much Respect!!!

I would have thought more ABS makers would have participated in this thread but maybe the lack of support at San Antonio is in itself enough to bring about positive change and forward momentum.
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He's my Hero too :)
 
Doug C said:
Joe,

Shot in the dark here…Matt Diskin ?

Doug
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Winner Wiinner chicken dinner :)

The same guy that made that makes these

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He also has a new production knife coming out with Kershaw called the Strobe

And the much anticipated Diskin Flipper will be coming out for Blade ......... I hope :)

I am very proud of him :)

My hope and belief is that we will be seeing more collaboration pieces and more pieces that blur the line between tactical/forged type pieces.

to me these are the F1 cars of the knife world

We already are

Look at the Knight and Wheeler projects

look at Scott's current Wilson Combat deal

Tom Ferry is doing some incredible work and colab pieces

I commend Tom for seeing the rise and going surfing :)

These makers have seen a viable expanding market and they are embracing it

They are also some of the hottest Smiths out there right now

Talent can not be denied

My hope is that the different organizations see the change and join together to move into the future

I respect and hear that the ABS is just a teaching institute but ................ They need to add a class to their curriculum that class is a marketing class because if their members are not in the green they will soon not have any members. If they can not market themselves and spread the message and the magic of the forged blade to the new buying public any way they can it could all be lost

I would say that over 90 % of the people I meet every day and these folks are from all walks of life meaning construction workers to white collar professionals do not even understand the difference between a forged blade and a stock removal piece

The ones that do besides the people on BF are usually the video game or The Lord of the rings group either looking for titanium Katanas or blades forged by elves :)

(Rolf only kidding)

The point is we need to spread the word of the merits of a properly forged knife to a new younger buying market

I see an up and coming hard core performance forged category that will overlap with the growing tactical/Zombie/fantasy market .......I know the Zombie lord of the rings crowd is a bit silly but their money is as green as a Zombie :)
 
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Matt is to me the smartest guy in the game. It's a thrill to watch him work in this trade, really the full meal deal when it comes to the knife game; supplier, dealer, craftsman, and even with all that going on he never seems to be in a hurry. Thanks Matt your a great role model and friend .
 
I was ready to say Matt but I have not seen that knife before but I know he has the ability. Good example Joe. I have one of almost all of Matts semi production folders. A journey man who saw the light? A great freind!
Gary
 
Thanks for the compliment Nick Wheeler. I appreciate it.

There's really too much to respond to here but a few quick thoughts for what its worth.

In regards to Reno and what Jerry and some others said. The SCI show was not carrying the ABS show when we were in Reno. KNIFE COLLECTORS were the main buyers. In addition to collectors Daniel O'Malley and the Connelly boys were major buyers as well. We left Reno one year before SCI left Reno. And we did so knowing SCI was leaving. The future was unclear of what SCI's future plans were so we decided to move to the center of the country where James Bowie fought and died at the Alamo. Seemed like a fit for forged blades and bowie knives. And in talking to some of my SCI customers they left for largely the same reasons as the ABS. Travel was a nightmare and Reno didn't offer what other cities did. Oh and by the way....the show isn't in Reno any more. How long are we going to bitch about it?

I'm not quite sure I understand where all this Tactical vs ABS talk comes from. There are dozens of ABS makers that have been making tactical knives for years. Many years! Harvey Dean has one on his website and he's on the board of the ABS. Tons of guys make switchblades, tactical knives for customers and soldiers, etc. myself included. I think ABS makers choose to make what they make based on what they like making and what they can sell. Not on what B.R. Hughes and the board may or may not like.

I don't see any Us vs Them....meaning Guild vs ABS, or Stock removal vs forged. I think these are issues of days gone by. Look at the AKI show. It works fabulously. My hammer in is a perfect example. Seeing ABS mastersmiths taking notes while Jurgen Steinau teaches or John Young. Again I think talk of bad feelings is just people stirring the pot on a forum.

The only place I've seen these issues are within some of the older leadership of the ABS and Guild. I've seen it first hand when trying to bring the ABS and Guild together for a show.

Hopefully one day the leadership of the ABS and Guild will put their egos aside, and listen to some of their very prominent and talented members...young and old. Don't they say that the first step in recovery is admitting you have a problem? To the board of the ABS...whether you agree or not you have a problem. So far this thread has 165 responses and 10,000 views. Not all of these responses are based in fact. Some are dead wrong. But many are spot on and written with good intentions, clear views, and from a neutral position. Where there is smoke there is fire.
 
Steven,

You are correct. The New England bladesmiths...Fikes, Fogg, Schmidt among others were beyond their times. They were light years ahead of many in the beginning. I have absolute respect for Bill Moran and admire him more now than ever. Many of the issues the ABS has now would not exist if Bill Moran was alive today. He was a great man.

However what those guys were doing then with damascus was revolutionary. They just didn't market themselves in the same way and therefore didn't get the credit. I remember 20 years ago here in montana at Rick Dunkerley's hammer in some of the guys were telling Don how they came up with an awesome new pattern. Don Fogg just smiled and said...I did that in the 70's in his most quiet humble voice. He's a true master and a better person.
 
joshsmith said:
Thanks for the compliment Nick Wheeler. I appreciate it.

There's really too much to respond to here but a few quick thoughts for what its worth.

In regards to Reno and what Jerry and some others said. The SCI show was not carrying the ABS show when we were in Reno. KNIFE COLLECTORS were the main buyers. In addition to collectors Daniel O'Malley and the Connelly boys were major buyers as well. We left Reno one year before SCI left Reno. And we did so knowing SCI was leaving. The future was unclear of what SCI's future plans were so we decided to move to the center of the country where James Bowie fought and died at the Alamo. Seemed like a fit for forged blades and bowie knives. And in talking to some of my SCI customers they left for largely the same reasons as the ABS. Travel was a nightmare and Reno didn't offer what other cities did. Oh and by the way....the show isn't in Reno any more. How long are we going to bitch about it?

I'm not quite sure I understand where all this Tactical vs ABS talk comes from. There are dozens of ABS makers that have been making tactical knives for years. Many years! Harvey Dean has one on his website and he's on the board of the ABS. Tons of guys make switchblades, tactical knives for customers and soldiers, etc. myself included. I think ABS makers choose to make what they make based on what they like making and what they can sell. Not on what B.R. Hughes and the board may or may not like.

I don't see any Us vs Them....meaning Guild vs ABS, or Stock removal vs forged. I think these are issues of days gone by. Look at the AKI show. It works fabulously. My hammer in is a perfect example. Seeing ABS mastersmiths taking notes while Jurgen Steinau teaches or John Young. Again I think talk of bad feelings is just people stirring the pot on a forum.

The only place I've seen these issues are within some of the older leadership of the ABS and Guild. I've seen it first hand when trying to bring the ABS and Guild together for a show.

Hopefully one day the leadership of the ABS and Guild will put their egos aside, and listen to some of their very prominent and talented members...young and old. Don't they say that the first step in recovery is admitting you have a problem? To the board of the ABS...whether you agree or not you have a problem. So far this thread has 165 responses and 10,000 views. Not all of these responses are based in fact. Some are dead wrong. But many are spot on and written with good intentions, clear views, and from a neutral position. Where there is smoke there is fire.
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Josh I do not think that its a VS thing

In the beginning of this thread it was asked what could bring more people out and interest a younger renewable consumer

A lot of my suggestions are based on this

As for the lion share of buyers being collectors being the ones purchasing knives when the show was connected to the SCI show I'm sure they were

How many were also attending the SCI show and would not have been there if not for it. Most big dollar hunters purchase big dollar guns and knives.

Has attendance of the show dropped off since the decision to leave and go on theIr own ?

Sure tons of smiths make tactical style blade but are they marketing them to this very large portion of the buying public that is interested in these style blades

What is the age of the average buyer attending the ABS show ?

If they were predominately gray and balding like me, I would think they would be looking to do a little farming, at least the younger Smiths would
 
In regards to the SCI Show. No they were mostly established knife buyers there for knives. There were a few exceptions. And as I said. We aren't in Reno anymore and neither is SCI.

As to what makers in the ABS decide to make and who to market to is their choice. No one is telling them not to...that I know of. Its up to makers to do the farming as you call it. I agree. We all need to attract new collectors...no matter what style of knife we make. Its up to each individual maker to do that. Just like any form of knifemaking...if you don't sell its probably your fault. Not someone elses.
 
Thanks for the clarification

I know for me I would be more attracted to a show like the ABS show if I could combine it with another. More bang for my buck so to speak

Like I mentioned earlier the SHOT- TKI - Antique arms show makes for a great trip and a lot of shows for the money

Does it matter if its in Reno or Vegas

I would prefer Vegas the food is better and prostitution is legal (only Kidding) :)

Billy Bagwell has told me that the original purpose of the ABS is to teach and educate and not to promote makers

I respect that but I do not really agree. If an organization can not run a prosperous show how can they have a prosperous membership ?

Everyone says change needs to be made but no one really likes any of the suggestions. I wish them well and I will continue to do my best to support the art of the forged blade and especially my friends feeding their families thru it.

I will leave everyone with this and than I'm pretty much finished here. Gotta get up and plow snow again

The renaissance was possible because the arts were patronized by families like the Medici's etc. The Patrons of the arts brought the arts to a level they had never achieved before. With out the Patrons the arts will die. That means with out money and a renewable consumer the funds will not be there to develop and let the arts flourish. So if the ABS wants to keep the art of the forged blade growing it must also take a hand in finding Medici's to pay for it

Just my humble opinion

I hope that the ABS just does not keep on riding that horse right past all the water ...... we all know what happens then
 
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That is the point of this thread. If the buyers in Reno were mainly collectors, where are they now. I agree Reno is a dead issue but it doesn't seem to go away.
I think the reasons have been well covered and I hope this discussion has some positive outcomes.
Josh,Joe, Kevin, Tom, et al, thank you, there is some great discussion here.
Gary
 
Josh,
I disagree with your point of view on the show. I realize that you are very much tied to it being that you were on the Show Committee but just as you state that the Board has issues, so does the Show as well as the Membership (myself included) independent of the Board.

I agree with Gary, if the Reno buyers were mainly knife collectors and not safari club then why did they not follow us to San Antonio? I was there from day one and I know that for myself and many others that SCI was becoming the main collector base at that show. It was inevitable, this year alone in Vegas they had over 23K in attendance. If the ABS show attracted 10% (2300) of those members the show would be insanely successful for everyone, and if we only attracted 1% (230) that would equal the amount of all serious knife collectors at the best shows anywhere. I doubt highly that the Reno show even during its last event brought in more than .5% (probably more like 40-60) SCI members but I do know a majority of those who came in bought knives. So the statement that they were never the main buyers in the show is not my viewpoint, because on my table and many others they were.

I think you have good intentions Josh but you need to take a step back and deviate from previous conceptions about the show. We need to focus on how can we turn the ABS show into an event we all (makers and collectors) want to support. Thats all this is about.

So just what constitutes a truly successful show? Every maker and collector is going to have a different view here and thats what is needed, lots of positive and constructive input.
 
Tom Ferry said:
I think you have good intentions Josh but you need to take a step back and deviate from previous conceptions about the show. We need to focus on how can we turn the ABS show into an event we all (makers and collectors) want to support. Thats all this is about.

So just what constitutes a truly successful show? Every maker and collector is going to have a different view here and thats what is needed, lots of positive and constructive input.
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A truly successful show is one where the promoter of the show made money from the door, and most of the makers sell everything they brought from a business perspective. It is a show where the collectors were able to find that "grail" knife, and where everyone got to meet that "rockstar" maker that they had always heard about(and wanted to spend time with)..tried to say hi to Larry Fuegen one year, and a couple that was at the show talked his ear off for every bit of an hour, lol...and where everyone wants to go back.....cemented a long lasting friendship with Bill Burke at that show over cigarettes just outside the door....seems like yesterday and it seems like 20 years ago, all in the same moment.

I went to every Reno show except the first one, I think. Met Tom Ferry there, scored a Nick Wheeler knife two years running, got a Dan Farr, a Harvey McBurnette and the first Composite Laminated Integral that Burt Foster ever made(which I subsequently Garssonized, and Burt hates me for). Stopped going to the Expo when Matt Diskin and David Mirabile stopped going....there was a draw to going to the show that ceased to be significant when that happened....it has become "see you next year at Blade".

All the opinions expressed here are those of the ones that are looking at it through their eyes. There isn't a "right" or "wrong" per se.....there is an overall feeling here that more can be done to promote the forged blade and more can be done to promote the Expo. I don't think anyone can take offense at that. Some are saying "the ABS does the best they can(not many) and more are saying "this is what I think". That is all constructive and valuable to a show promoter, I would think, at least one interested in promoting a great show.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
JParanee said:
Does it matter if its in Reno or Vegas

I would prefer Vegas the food is better and prostitution is legal (only Kidding) :)
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Prostitution's not legal in Vegas. It is legal in a few specific places in Nevada - not sure Reno or Vegas makes a big difference.

Personally, I liked Reno because it's close to Seattle and it's easy and cheap to get to. Apart from that, Reno sucks. The food's mostly horrible, and the place has made an industry of catering to retired blue collar workers with a gambling addiction....
 
Joss said:
Prostitution's not legal in Vegas. It is legal in a few specific places in Nevada - not sure Reno or Vegas makes a big difference.

Personally, I liked Reno because it's close to Seattle and it's easy and cheap to get to. Apart from that, Reno sucks. The food's mostly horrible, and the place has made an industry of catering to retired blue collar workers with a gambling addiction....
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At least I was right on the food :)
 
Next to Blade Show, Reno was my favorite Show. It always had great knives and A LOT going on. Goods friends (both makers and collectors) regularly attended.
STeven and I always got a chance to catch-up. I did a collector seminar which I enjoyed and attendees seemed to as well. I purchased some spectacular knives there over the years.

I went to the first San Antonio Shows (first & second, I believe) and I enjoyed the shows, however they were very slow compared to Reno. I made it a point to actually try to keep a count of serious knife purchasers (collectors and dealers who regularly purchase custom knives) present at the last SA Show I attended, and if I remember correctly, the count was less than 20. I believe there was 60-70 table holders that year. That's a pretty sad potential purchaser to seller ratio.

I was attending 5-7 knife shows every year and if my current schedule allowed, I would probably still be attending the ABS show as well as Arkansas. In recent years, I have only attended Blade Show on Thursday night for the CKCA banquet. I will be attending the entire Blade Show this year and hope to get back on the Show circuit in the not too distant future.

Perhaps a solution could be to combine the ABS, Guild and possibly one of the Tactical / Firearms Shows creating a sort of 'Super Show'. It could take place in Las Vegas where the shows wouldn't even have to share the same venue, however could be located in close enough proximity to take advantage of efficiencies and the large firearm & knife enthusiasts that such a large and diverse Show would attract. I realize this would require quite an effort for the ABS & Guild, however it may take something this drastic if both organizations are to survive long term.
 
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Thanks to all who have posted to this thread. There is a tremendous amount of important information here, on a vast number of topics. Some of these deserve their own thread, to continue the discussion on that subject.

Until this year's ABS Expo, I have had a table at all of the shows in San Antonio. I did not attend the ABS Expo this year, because I had an opportunity to make business contacts with some folks in the firearms community at the Las Vegas Arms Show, and so I reserved a table in the knifemakers section. It was a late decision to go to Vegas and I calculated that if my sales were good there, I would not have enough knives to put on my table in San Antonio. I was correct in this decision, as I sold nearly everything I had in Vegas. I had my table reservation for the Expo held for the 2015 show. I plan to go to both Las Vegas and the Expo next year.

I want to thank all of the members of the Expo committee for their work on this show. I know that they have devoted a lot of their time to it and have done the best that they know how. But, the mindset that this show is an just an extension of the ABS's efforts to teach and expand the awareness of the forged blade is not sufficient to build a show that people will attend. Through the substantial and commendable efforts of the ABS, the forged blade has been saved from extinction. There are now thousands of bladesmiths all over the world. While it is obvious that awareness and teaching is definitely a part of the Expo, a knife show is a business venture. A successful business venture requires market research to determine if there will be a customer base to support it. The very best shows of any type, are arranged by experienced show promoters and/or people who are from the sales community. They know how to find a venue and date that works for the customers. Perhaps the Expo committee just needs to find some expert help with show planning. You cannot expect business owners to attend a show where they are not confident that they will have sales. The show must be an event that they can't afford not to attend. Bring the customers and the business owners will be there.

The suggestion that ABS members who do not have a table at the Expo are not supporting the ABS is disturbing. We all have our own way of contributing to the ABS's efforts. As a moderator of the ABS Forum, I see the same guys on the forum every day, offering advice and knifemaking how to knowledge. We have people hosting hammer-ins at their shops, guys coordinating the knifemaking schools and seminars, teaching at the youth symposiums, etc. If we start pointing fingers because someone is not participating in what we each perceive as most important, there will be plenty of finger pointing to go around. This is not constructive.

If the ABS and the Guild did a combined show, I would be there. However, I have some concerns with the concept of only allowing Master Smiths. There are not a lot of us Master Smiths. Subtracting those who do not want to, or cannot attend the show, there may not be too many ABS members there. Too, I believe that there are a lot of collectors who have as first priority at a show, to check out what is on the tables of the up and coming Journeyman Smiths. As a businessman, I would have a concern about my sales potential if a show is telling a group of prospective customers; "There's nothing for you here". I understand and appreciate the Guild's view of only having the best makers at the show. But the parameters of the show should not be so narrow as to turn away prospective customers. On the other hand, there must be some distinction between this new show and the Blade Show. Inviting too many knifemaking disciplines and/or skill sets will turn it into another "everybody is there" show.

I've never understood the forged, vs. stock removal thing. Period.
 
sculver said:
Thanks to all who have posted to this thread. There is a tremendous amount of important information here, on a vast number of topics. Some of these deserve their own thread, to continue the discussion on that subject.

Until this year's ABS Expo, I have had a table at all of the shows in San Antonio. I did not attend the ABS Expo this year, because I had an opportunity to make business contacts with some folks in the firearms community at the Las Vegas Arms Show, and so I reserved a table in the knifemakers section. It was a late decision to go to Vegas and I calculated that if my sales were good there, I would not have enough knives to put on my table in San Antonio. I was correct in this decision, as I sold nearly everything I had in Vegas. I had my table reservation for the Expo held for the 2015 show. I plan to go to both Las Vegas and the Expo next year.

I want to thank all of the members of the Expo committee for their work on this show. I know that they have devoted a lot of their time to it and have done the best that they know how. But, the mindset that this show is an just an extension of the ABS's efforts to teach and expand the awareness of the forged blade is not sufficient to build a show that people will attend. Through the substantial and commendable efforts of the ABS, the forged blade has been saved from extinction. There are now thousands of bladesmiths all over the world. While it is obvious that awareness and teaching is definitely a part of the Expo, a knife show is a business venture. A successful business venture requires market research to determine if there will be a customer base to support it. The very best shows of any type, are arranged by experienced show promoters and/or people who are from the sales community. They know how to find a venue and date that works for the customers. Perhaps the Expo committee just needs to find some expert help with show planning. You cannot expect business owners to attend a show where they are not confident that they will have sales. The show must be an event that they can't afford not to attend. Bring the customers and the business owners will be there.

The suggestion that ABS members who do not have a table at the Expo are not supporting the ABS is disturbing. We all have our own way of contributing to the ABS's efforts. As a moderator of the ABS Forum, I see the same guys on the forum every day, offering advice and knifemaking how to knowledge. We have people hosting hammer-ins at their shops, guys coordinating the knifemaking schools and seminars, teaching at the youth symposiums, etc. If we start pointing fingers because someone is not participating in what we each perceive as most important, there will be plenty of finger pointing to go around. This is not constructive.

If the ABS and the Guild did a combined show, I would be there. However, I have some concerns with the concept of only allowing Master Smiths. There are not a lot of us Master Smiths. Subtracting those who do not want to, or cannot attend the show, there may not be too many ABS members there. Too, I believe that there are a lot of collectors who have as first priority at a show, to check out what is on the tables of the up and coming Journeyman Smiths. As a businessman, I would have a concern about my sales potential if a show is telling a group of prospective customers; "There's nothing for you here". I understand and appreciate the Guild's view of only having the best makers at the show. But the parameters of the show should not be so narrow as to turn away prospective customers. On the other hand, there must be some distinction between this new show and the Blade Show. Inviting too many knifemaking disciplines and/or skill sets will turn it into another "everybody is there" show.

I've never understood the forged, vs. stock removal thing. Period.
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That's a very good post
 
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