al-Zarqawi is DEAD

I had a celebatory sip of bourbon that I had been saving for this day since a cousin of mine was killed back in April 2004 while working as a contractor in Iraq. As the old saying goes, "Some people just need killing." Al Zarqawi got his, and hopefully his buddies will get theirs soon thanks to the info our boys picked up from the exsafe house.

Bob
 
Them 500 pounders ain't what really killed him, good HUMINT and cooperation brought about his demise. The bombs just proved to be the right tool for the task at hand. It's my sincere hope that as more folks grow weary of the senseless bloodshed, and begin to come forward with information, that the bad guys' blanket will begin to unravel big time. We'll never get out of Iraq or Afghanistan until the people of those countries decide that they themselves have had enough of the terrorists' crap. Then, unfortunately, we've got other fish to fry.
One of the biggest benefits of zapping Al Zarqawi, was putting a damper on the sectarian violence he was perpetrating by way of tryng to incite a civil war within Iraq. As, day by day, the Iraqi people learn to get along with one another and think of themselves as Iraqis instead of Shiites, Sunnis, and Kurds, the terrorists/insurgents' foothold in that country becomes more and more tenuous. Ain't going to happen overnight, but anybody wants to tell me progress isn't being made, best have some facts to back that up.

Sarge
 
For all the comparative religion scholars out there, here's the following from the Koran itself (Sura 4:34):

"Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. . . . As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme."

(Emphasis added.)
 
The Bible mentions caning loved ones more times than I can remember. It's astonishing how many people of my country are trying to make people perceive islam as a whole as nothing but hateful, dangerous and extremist, when these types only represent a fraction of those following the religion.

Especially when those people are Christians. I wonder how many people care to acknowledge that Jesus is the most quoted prophet in the Kuran.

You people play a dangerous game. Mark my words, you treat these people with hatred like many of you currently do, and even if we bring peace to the middle east we will have many, many bitter peoples. Bitter minds breed vengeful actions, something I don't think any of us want to see happen again.
 
Return of the J.D. said:
For all the comparative religion scholars out there, here's the following gem from the Koran itself (Sura 4:34):

"Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. . . . As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme."

(Emphasis added.)

Don't blame me; I didn't write it.


Corinthians - Chapter 14:34

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law."
 
Nordic Viking said:
Corinthians - Chapter 14:34

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law."

That's not the only bible passage that says women should "submit to" and "obey" their husbands, but I don't recall any reference to beating them if they don't.

Sarge
 
I wonder if we looked in the Old Testament we couldn't find something unseemly by today's justice.


munk
 
Sylvrfalcn said:
That's not the only bible passage that says women should "submit to" and "obey" their husbands, but I don't recall any reference to beating them if they don't.

Sarge

The bible has been translated a dozen times, the Koran has not. I have no doubt that in 1AD, all women got knuckle sammiches from their husbands.

As munk said before, If you're going to look for dirt in any scripture, you will find it.
 
aproy1101 said:
al-Zarqawial-Zarqawial-Zarqawial-Zarqawial-Zarqawi

IS DEAD~~~~~

THANK THE LORD al-Zarqawi IS DEAD


Oil prices dropped a dollar at the news!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hurray. We should party in the streets so its shown on Al-Jezerra.

New national holiday requested. Great day to be an American. Hopefully his death was slow and painful. I'd have spilled all the morphine onto the sand as he gurgled his way to HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank the US Airforce, Andy.
 
Vivi's and Nordic Viking's points above are well-taken. "Treating [Muslims] with hatred" is dangerous indeed, as Vivi writes--and I do not do so, would not do so, and would counsel against doing so those who find themselves so disposed. (Indeed, I'll go you one further: the most-receptive hearings I've ever received for my own religious beliefs have come after I expressed sincere interest in learning more about the religious beliefs of those with whom I was speaking.) That said, I think we non-Muslims would be well-advised to acquaint ourselves with what our Muslim neighbors believe. I'll also ask one question--I won't answer it, partly because I think to do so would not be polite, and the answer is perhaps entirely out of place in this forum--but I'll suggest keeping in mind this question: if one believes all religions (or any two religions) are precisely equal in the likelihood that they will equip their adherents to live peacefully with others, upon what basis does one hold that belief? Put differently, I've often heard it stated that all religions are equal in their capacity to promote this or that virtue (or every virtue). I ask myself the question: what guarantee is there of this? Or what warrant for this assertion? Understand that I am not proposing an answer in this forum. I am not even going public as to whether or not I believe there is an answer. And I'd suggest that any public answer in this context is likely to start a flame war, which I see no reason to do. I merely toss out the question, and, having done so, I hereby shut up--at least for now.

As to Nordic Viking: rightly pointed out. (Your citation is specifically to FIRST Corinthians, by the way, I think.) But Sylvrfalcn's distinction is well-taken, as well.
 
Thank God for the US Air Force then.
 
4th time is the charm. 500 lb bombs are apparently "justice".

my inner cynic says that he's actually alive and well in "club fed", drinking a rum drink, and checking out the caribbean sunset.

bladite
 
Nordic Viking said:
As munk said before, If you're going to look for dirt in any scripture, you will find it.

Quoted for truth.

Perhaps one would be best served by focusing on the plot, rather than the specifics?
 
Those familiar with my past postings may well think I have been otherwise occupied during the growth of this thread, but I have not felt compelled to respond until now.

I'm already up too late anyway!

As far as the Bible's teaching on women, I know of no other "tradition" beside the Judeo-Christian that has done more to improve and elevate the condition of women in human society. Of course, I have no doubt not heard of everything! :)

I am asking in all sincerity, is there any passage in the Koran that specifically directs men to live lives of sacrifice for the benefit of their wives? The Bible, in Ephesians 5 at least, directs men to follow the example of Christ in sacrificing them selves for their wives, as Christ did for the Church.

Christian men are commanded to honor their wives, provide for them, and love them. Anything similar in the Koran?

Take care,

Tom


PS as far as comparative religion is concerned, I offer this link to an old post. Not directly pertinent, but it does deal somewhat with what JD was discussing. The post in mind is the second to last on that thread.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=338590&page=3&highlight=antithesis

T.
 
The guy was actually alive when American Troops stormed in. He was placed on a stretcher for medical treatment and he tried to roll of and get away. He died shortly after, knowing he lost and with American on all sides. Great way to for terrorist like him die.
 
Debated with myself about posting this. I'm sure that others can come up with a lot of negative verses out of context and I didn't want to start a lot of trouble, but........

Ephesians 5:24-25
Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.
Ephesians 5:28
In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.
Colossians 3:19
Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.

Edit: Sorry, I guess gravertom already made reference to some of these.
 
I celebrate, laud, remark upon the milestone of Zarqawi's death without scourging Islam. Islam is in crisis today. Islam has a problem, a real problem.
PC correct reporting on international news outlets does not help this.

...I believe it's possible to worship as your heart tells you, without having to murder your neighbor. Yes, modern Islam is in crisis. No, I don't want to condemn all Muslims; as a point of settlement of peace on earth we cannot go to our brothers in the Middle East and say: "You are all going to Hell, my religion is better than yours."

If Iraq makes it, all you Leftist mamby pambi cry babies will have seen an historical intervention that determined the future of Mankind, and you were on the wrong side of history. If Iraq only sorta-kinda makes it, it will still be a tremendous milestone for a people living under a Big Rock. Yeah, you oughta call it that, say, 'I Rock', for "I got out from under the rock", of oppression and ignorance. Somehow the idea that things are supposed to happen quick, easy and neat got floated out there as if that was an accurate depiction of world events. It never has been. Democracy was sloppily introduced into a chaotic nerve nexus of the geo-political Earth. It wasn't pretty. It didn't always look good. You could always whine it was failing with every roadside bomb. But the alternative, to leave it 'all alone,' (and they'll come Home, wagging their tails behind them.) do nothing, hope for the best while the Cancer was getting bigger and bigger and the pus sores of rebellion breaking out across the globe were filling, would have been a catastrophy. No, it's not fair. We didn't treat Iraq fair. Nothing is fair. It didn't quite look good.

But it damn well was the right thing to do during the time of the Whirlwind. And people get focused on the little things in front of their faces and forget the big picture. You want your kids to have babies and some reasonable belief in safety and progress? It's easy to look back on the actions of Lincoln or Jefferson and see how clear it all was, when they fought the good fight; but it's not always clear when it's happening in reality, sometimes it's scary, and dark, and it has twisted passages and the crowd (and international press) can jeer at you from the sidelines. In a time when the World was taking tiny baby steps of self awareness, realizing there was a 'we', and all nations were interlinked, and the actions of neighbors and brothers did impact a relative country on the other side of the world, in a time where you were afraid to say what was good or bad because you did not wish to offend all these new found friends across the globe, a little pipsqueak named George Bush was couragious enough to act.

There was a candy store of WMD and Terrorist network building and supply chain possiblities in a post 9-11 world, Iraq, and the West as we know it, could not take the reasonable risk that if unchecked a nuke or biological agent thrown at London or New York would not bring us all down, all the new found neighbors with different values. And you can hate George Bush for that, But History will be Kinder. It will see a flash of meat, of sinew, grit and muscle in a world largely terrified of it's own shadow, and happily living on French new age, Old Europe Baloney.

Baloney or spam. That all mixed together crap, where nothing is known and everything is all the same; it all tastes the same.

Well, it's not all the same. When the Twin Towers fell we saw a new world. We entered a world where a few fools with relatively little expenditure might be able to topple the industrial machine's movement. In a Day. And when That Baby stops, it's not Wall street that yells the loudest; its the Third World who can't afford goods that starves first.

And some people get this, and many do not. The world is not what is was when I was a boy. It has changed. Men have changed. This is a challenge for the Ages.
If we survive this, maybe our DNA is worth something after all. Worth more than putting a MC Donald's on the Moon.
I sure hope so.
Whatever else Bush is, or is not, he got it. He figured it out. Frankly, I was worried he would not. Yes, that's right, you all scared me with your sneering about his sometimes less than stellar perceptiveness.....


End of Rant.
munk
 
Noone controls religion. Religion is like language: Even where none exists, the children will create something.
No religion is completely without hypocrisy, indeed, this keeps many clergy employed, explaining away the seeming contradictions.

It is my opinion that the culture is responsible for most of the strongly-held beliefs, especially the ones that lead to violence.
Thus, it is my further belief that diversity, cultural diversity, is the only real way to peace, to strength, to healthy democracies.
 
munk said:
If Iraq makes it, all you Leftist mamby pambi cry babies will have seen an historical intervention that determined the future of Mankind, and you were on the wrong side of history.

But it damn well was the right thing to do during the time of the Whirlwind. And people get focused on the little things in front of their faces and forget the big picture. You want your kids to have babies and some reasonable belief in safety and progress? Well, it's not all the same. When the Twin Towers fell we saw a new world. We entered a world where a few fools with relatively little expenditure might be able to topple the industrial machine's movement. In a Day. And when That Baby stops, it's not Wall street that yells the loudest; its the Third World who can't afford goods that starves first.

Whatever else Bush is, or is not, he got it. He figured it out. Frankly, I was worried he would not. Yes, that's right, you all scared me with your sneering about his sometimes less than stellar perceptiveness.....


End of Rant.
munk

I hope that Iraq makes it. I think that the war was wrong and immoral but those people have suffered enough.

Munk, how many years do you think we will have to wait? I mean say that there is no difference in the number of casualties civilian and military 5 years from now, would you think we should still hang in there? Also do you think the new gov'ts ties to Iran are a good thing?

At this point all I can see that we've done is what Iran could not do in 8 years of war. Overturn Saddam and install a gov't friendly to Iran in Iraq. At this point at least Baghdad in the 2000's seems a lot like Beiruit in the 80's and Lebanon has not ever really got it together. The Kurds seem to have it together decently, but that's about it.

Matthew 26:52

"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God" (Matthew 5:9).
 
that is a fine question, Hollow. Five years is too long to wait without forward progress.
If a loon manages to leak a bio agent in Paris, or gas the tunnel to England, or a dirty nuke in Hong Kong....it won't take many such 'incidents' to crank us back a hundred years in progress, or cause us to fail utterly, or, what I fear the most- create a Police State World.

There won't be any lefties and righties in a police state- worried about enough food to get through another day.

Keep 'em fed. Watch TV. Keep Watching the TV.



munk
 
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