All That Is Survive! Knives, Post Here Reopened

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Well all my survive knives were top quality and I use my knives in the real world)
Sure you have to wait a bit for them, but it's not such a big deal.
 
james terrio said:
Well, clearly that bodes very well for little details like fulfilling back orders. Because moving the whole company could not possibly disrupt service on orders that are already way behind.

I'm obviously, really missing something here, as far as this company's plan goes.

Let's see...

Take a bunch of money up front and routinely postpone delivery... flood a comparatively tiny repeat market with new models and options/upgrades and t-shirts that may or may not exist... farm almost everything out so there's nearly zero likelihood of making a serious profit... build a reputation based to a large degree on substandard F'n'F (sorry folks, rough machine marks are not a selling point... I have no idea how people have managed to convince themselves that bad grinds and sloppy profiles are a good thing), while "competing" at a price-point with companies that already have a sturdy foothold in the market by way of making - and actually providing -knives with clearly higher craftsmanship for decades...

Not to mention absolutely dismal communication by way of a website that is sort of updated now and then, and FaceBook updates, and sometimes an email to folks that hammered cash into this endeavor months ago...

And the whole time, conveniently ignore the biggest knife forum on the planet while loyal customers plead for info on the knives they've already paid for or are begging to buy... wow.

And now pack up the whole mess and move somewhere else? Seriously?

I really have to ask again, if anyone took that business plan to a banker, would they give out a loan to go do it?

I'm not "hatin'" but good gravy... is this dude writing a textbook on how NOT to run a small business?

I'm honestly asking, because I'm completely flummoxed by this whole thing.
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I've been watching Guy's evolution in creating his knives for a while now. I've been rooting for him to succeed since his (stated) philosophy of producing sturdy, hard-use, semi-no-frills knives made in the good 'ol USA appeals to me.

I mostly like his designs and don't have any serious complaints due to quality or workmanship based on the examples I own/owned (2x GSO-10s, GSO-5.1, several -4.1s of various flavors, a couple of neckers). I can live with the machine marks and mine all have good F&F, grinds, and arrived more than sharp enough for me.

I'm fairly new to appreciating the nuances of knives, particularly custom and/or handmade, and I discovered Survive! Knives about the same time I started getting into knives as a hobby versus a tool I use from time to time. So, I found his knives appealing in a "custom-ish" light without the intimidation of truly custom/handmade knives (I've since gotten over that).

I also like the idea that Guy is creating his own brand-name, wish him well in it, and kind of think it's cool to be a small part of the evolution - if only as a supporter and customer.

All that said, here's the big but: it's apparent - or at least seems - that Guy is becoming a victim of his own success. I agree with most of what James has posted above. I'm never in any dire need to get my hands on any knife RIGHT NOW, so the extended delivery times haven't particularly bothered me with the big exception of constantly changing/unrealistic timelines and the conspicuous lack of communication.

I still believe Guy truly means well and intends to do right by his customers/supporters. However, you know what they say about "best intentions". I hope Guy succeeds and I will most likely continue to support him and buy more Survive! Knives. However, the appeal for me is increasingly overshadowed by his failure to address the issues many are raising.

Also, there are MANY makers out there who can produce knives just as good to much better than Guy's - to custom specs and often quicker turn around. So, I may still patronize Guy & Survive! but I'm leaning more toward spending my money on true custom makers who I know appreciate my business and care enough in me as a customer to take the time to communicate.
 
I think some people here are quick to judge.

Our home burnt down march of last year and I had a GSO 4.1 on order. I made the necessary arrangements to cancel orders because funds were needed elsewhere..... The GSO 4.1 still showed up. I understand that things slip through the cracks and immediately contacted guy about the mishap. Knowing that we had lost everything, he immediately responded and told me that I could keep the knife free of charge because we had been through enough. Guy seems like a very genuine individual.... and whatever troubles they are going through, I think people should give him the benefit of the doubt :)
 
The world is full of folks who are good at making something or good at servicing something(s) but not so good at the business aspects. We have seen this before. Some makers overcome the problem. Some do not.

To this point, the customers seem accepting - mostly. I am. I use the knives I buy (Mostly. Sometimes I just can't bring myself to do it. :o)

Some makers do not deliver for years.

He should be more conservative in his estimates.

Negative comments from those who have never held, much less used, the product ?

Negative comments from competitors?
 
Presumed_Lost said:
I've only had my 4.1 for a few days, so I'm allowed to change my mind. It's in the forum by-laws, you can look it up.

I'm going to reverse myself here. I keep lookg at this knife, holding in my hand, turning it over, feeling the form and balance, checking details, then reading the complaints, then looking at the knife again...

I think you all should stay completely away from this company. Don't order, don't consider it, cancel your existing orders if you can. Leave these terrible tooling marks and horrible grinds to those foolish enough not to let it bother them (especially if they can't really notice the glaring "defects" without a lens), those foolish enough not to care even a LITTLE whether a banker would approve the company's business plan, foolish enough not to care greatly which of the United States they're being made in, foolish enough not to be personally offended by the very THOUGHT that some folks who ordered products that didn't exist yet at a steep discount ended up waiting quite a while in some cases.

I mean, sorry, but from everything I've seen so far this is a very nice knife indeed, as was the one other that I've held, and for some incomprehensible reason in SPITE of all those excellent reasons not to buy demand is still such that there just aren't nearly enough to go around... so...

Be offended. Be very offended. I'll help... I'm, um, OUTRAGED that it took, let's see, more than three weeks longer than was originally projected to receive mine, and I tell you right now, I have little doubt that after the next three or four it will be a LONG time indeed before I buy another one from this company. I'm DEEPLY troubled that a company selling goods faster than they can make them might not feel the need of the sage advice of bankers about it, Hell, if they don't need to borrow money they might not even HAVE a business plan for others to judge. Where would we be if more companies didn't go into debt to people who don't know anything about their business, if the people who started and built companies just made their own decisions about running them, I ask you? And how DARE they try to succeed without seeking OUR advice on this forum? Especially those who can pronounce judgement on the knives without having seen one, how can you possibly be more unbiased than that? A young company making their share of mistakes but still managing to make money hand over fist needs our advice to dwell on the mistakes properly.

Not only that, but I think they OUGHT to be made in my native state of Oklahoma, I'm VERY disappointed that they're not, and I'll be even MORE offended if they're moving but not going where I feel strongly that they should. Oh, and you know what else? When I ordered mine the only option for the handle screw finish was "tumbled", and these are BLACK! I think they owe me an apology and an immediate refund for that so I can buy another, maybe a slightly different model, with the RIGHT screws! The nerve.

All of you with any sense of propriety at all should just walk away, right now, before they open their order books again, and feel very good about yourselves for doing it, too. Leave these knives to those fools who don't have their priorities straight about what makes a good knife purchase. If I can help reinforce your morale on that point just let me know, happy to oblige.
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If you look you will see that I have no shortage of Guy's products. I loved Guy's story, some people I respected used and reviewed his products and I sort of jumped in with both feet. I communicated freely my support for this startup. Now almost a year has passed and 7 Survive knives. I have earned and paid for the right to communicate my opinions surrounding this company. If Guy moves operations to Idaho, I do not blame him one little bit. PA is not the most business friendly state from a taxation standpoint, and I cannot deny the beauty of the state of Idaho. Perhaps this is fulfillment of one of his dreams. I wish him luck, and this will have no bearing on whether I purchase, or do not purchase, another Survive knife. But his originating place of business was an influencing factor for my initial excitement, initial support and I sort of developed an esprit de corps with Survive.

Now a year, and 7 knives, later plenty has changed. All of my Survive knives are exactly as expected, well designed, good ergonomics, great materials and a joy to carry and use. Along the way there have been broken promises, and other disappointments communicated here. Also along the way I have discovered other makers who hand make their knives, pay particular attention to fit and finish, have similar attributes and applications as does the Survive line, and they impart the feeling that they truely appreciate my business. They are masters of communication as well. As a result, I now own some of these very fine products as well, none of which are made in my home state.

I wish Guy and Survive the best of luck in their business. I do not know if I will buy any more of Guy's creations. Clearly I cannot imagine a requirement to do so as there are no holes that require filling with my Survive stable. I have already filled the small EDC niche with other artisans. Artisans that give me the sense that they really cared about my business, and that hand make their knives. I have evolved in the past year, and so has Survive. We just seem to have evolved in different directions.
 
Thomas Linton said:
The world is full of folks who are good at making something or good at servicing something(s) but not so good at the business aspects. We have seen this before. Some makers overcome the problem. Some do not.

To this point, the customers seem accepting - mostly. I am. I use the knives I buy (Mostly. Sometimes I just can't bring myself to do it. :o)

Some makers do not deliver for years.

He should be more conservative in his estimates.

Negative comments from those who have never held, much less used, the product ?

Negative comments from competitors?
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My thoughts exactly. :thumbup: Has anyone been cheated yet?

Maybe this thread should be moved to Whine and Cheese.
 
Thomas Linton said:
Negative comments from those who have never held, much less used, the product ?

Negative comments from competitors?
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And? So what? If this was a Survive Knives dedicated forum, you might have a point...but it isn't. It's General and everyone is entitiled to throw their opinion in.

I understand james terrio's point. To me, I'm negative on the product without having to handle one. To me there are far too many quality makers out there with good customer service to have to deal with what I've read here.

I'll pass. Not worth it.
 
Certainly a problem, And without correction, the "business plan" will fail.

Certainly everyone is allowed an opinion. Entitlement? Pretty much. Look at some of the opinions posted in other threads.

I guess I wish for better as I have for other makers - some of whom got past the business problems.
 
UffDa said:
My thoughts exactly. :thumbup: Has anyone been cheated yet?

Maybe this thread should be moved to Whine and Cheese.
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Up until this point, I think that most, if not all, criticisms have been constructive ones. And none have accused Survive of cheating anyone. I'm sorry, but I set the bar higher than "no one was cheated" when evaluating a company.
 
McVeyMac said:
Up until this point, I think that most, if not all, criticisms have been constructive ones. And none have accused Survive of cheating anyone. I'm sorry, but I set the bar higher than "no one was cheated" when evaluating a company.
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I have to disagree with that. I have read some pretty nasty stuff in this thread. It's mostly buried in a wall of words that hardly anyone reads.

The question I asked someone who posted in this thread is what do you do when you offer a pre-order and get bombed? Take the 3.5 for
instance. There wasn't even a knife yet, just a drawing and how many orders were placed? Based on my order number, I would guess about
9000. (I could be wrong. I don't know what Guy's numbering system is.) An order like that not only strains his ability, but also the ability
of his suppliers. Perhaps, in retrospect, it would have been wiser to limit the number of orders to something that you could comfortably
handle. I'm not in business, so I don't know.

I look at other knife companies. What I find interesting and somewhat confusing is that they have a hot product and stop making it, yet they
still show it on their website marked sold out........forever! Maybe that's their business plan. :confused:
 
UffDa said:
An order like that not only strains his ability, but also the ability
of his suppliers. Perhaps, in retrospect, it would have been wiser to limit the number of orders to something that you could comfortably
handle. I'm not in business, so I don't know.
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This, sir, sounds a lot like constructive criticism to me. I do not know Guy's numbering system either, but I think that number reflects all orders taken, not just 3.5s.
 
UffDa said:
The question I asked someone who posted in this thread is what do you do when you offer a pre-order and get bombed?
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And the answer is, I don't do pre-orders on batches or runs, and very seldom take deposits on custom stuff.
 
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