All That Is Survive! Knives, Post Here Reopened

[Kiah]

That may well be, but words mean something. Whether it was meant to be sarcastic or not, it could easily interpreted as being serious.


BTW, good post. :thumbup:

Yeah, maybe could've used a smiley or two. Hard to convey tone via text or see the cheekiness at a glance. I did smile though.

To Guy and the Survive team, I wish you all the best of luck on the next phase of your business. I look forward to the new products and offerings. To Kiah, I still love your work. Each of the seven sheaths of yours that I own are perfect. Keep up the excellent work.

Thanks, friend.

 

[Presumed_Lost]

OK, I understand the opinions expressed here. Maybe some of them are constructive criticism. Maybe some are not. I read the following and immediately dismissed it as someone's sour grapes opinion. It could have been written tongue in cheek. I don't know,but how many folks read it and have lost any inclination to buy one of Guy's knives? Fine you say, Guy deserves to lose business because ofthe way he treats his customers. So, he goes out of business. Problem solved."All of you with any sense of propriety at all should just walk away, right now, before they open their order books again, and feel very good about yourselves for doing it, too. Leave these knives to those fools who don't have their priorities straight about what makes a good knife purchase. If I can help reinforce your morale on that point just let me know, happy to oblige."Constructive criticism. Yesirree bob.That's all I have to say on the subject.

That was me, and, and yes, it was not just tongue-in-cheek, it was sarcasm, hoping to get some people to realize how absurd their arguments were. I thought, in whole, that it was over-the-top enough to be obvious. My sincere apologies if it was not. For the record, I am entirely pleased with the knife I bought from Survive! (so far, I haven't really put it through its paces yet) and my own purchasing experience, zero problems, and I intend to buy again. If anything, all of this nose-in-the-air moral superiority and haughty disdain has made me all the more willing to buy. The sarcasm was futile, of course. It's obvious that these guys (however many there really are) are determined to shout down anyone else and control the tone of the thread however long it takes.It has worked admirably elsewhere. I've seen the "piling on" and "shouting down" before in other venues to the point where it resulted in virtually complete control of what may be said there. The pattern is all too familiar to those who have been on these forums for many years. One might even say that it's recognizable.

 

[Quiet]

I am not saying that you don't have the right to post your opinion. I just think that's kind of silly. They have my money too, but I'm not worried about it.

Carry on.

That's my opinion.

EDIT: While doing something else, this thought popped into my head. This thread started out more or less as a positive look at Survive knives and has evolved
into criticism, some justified, of Guy and his business practices with people "piling on". Some don't even have or have ever held a Survive knife.
I don't know how many people have followed this thread, but how many will not consider ordering a Survive knife based on this thread? If someone wanted
to shutdown a company, this seems like a pretty good way to do it.

As has been said, you have the right to post whatever you want. Go to it.

I am one of those who won't be giving this company any of my business. I'd rather wait for a product from a more established company, like Busse/Kin, Randall, or any number of others. At least they're upfront about their wait times. Also, they return emails promptly, I like that. This whole vanishing act Guy has repeatedly pulled on members here (after having their money?! WTF?) and repeatedly missed deadlines? NnnnnnOPE. Not doing it, no matter HOW many dewy-eyed fans he has here. Sorry.

I said it like fifteen pages ago and I'll say it again. These knives aren't anything worth being irritated over, and I can find plenty of other knives that will perform as well as Guy's will, at similar prices, but with significantly less hassle and vastly better communication. Fans coming in to repeatedly post "Guys, you should stop complaining!" like you have only serve to show me I've got the right understanding of the situation.

For comparison, I recently placed an order for a Skookum Bush Tool. Rod emailed me back and told me candidly, "the wait time is a little over 45 months". Sweet, awesome deal. I have a clear expectation, and I'm not going to expect that knife any time soon. Therefore, thanks to solid, prompt communication, my expectations are properly set. I like that.

Oh, and the best part? He didn't take a dime from me up front, like he has a lot of you folks. Let me be frank for a second, I can't speak for anyone else here, but I would be friggin' pissed if I'd paid for my knife up front, and despite repeatedly pushed back delivery dates, and a lack of communication, I was watching this guy attending all the industry shows and showing off prototypes for all this new stuff he was coming out with. Pretty sure I know where the money for doing all of that came from.

Anyway, short answer is, this thread cemented my mindset to pass on Survive!'s products. I see nothing I can't get elsewhere.

 

[UffDa]

I am one of those who won't be giving this company any of my business. I'd rather wait for a product from a more established company, like Busse/Kin, Randall, or any number of others. At least they're upfront about their wait times. Also, they return emails promptly, I like that. This whole vanishing act Guy has repeatedly pulled on members here (after having their money?! WTF?) and repeatedly missed deadlines? NnnnnnOPE. Not doing it, no matter HOW many dewy-eyed fans he has here. Sorry.

I said it like fifteen pages ago and I'll say it again. These knives aren't anything worth being irritated over, and I can find plenty of other knives that will perform as well as Guy's will, at similar prices, but with significantly less hassle and vastly better communication. Fans coming in to repeatedly post "Guys, you should stop complaining!" like you have only serve to show me I've got the right understanding of the situation.

For comparison, I recently placed an order for a Skookum Bush Tool. Rod emailed me back and told me candidly, "the wait time is a little over 45 months". Sweet, awesome deal. I have a clear expectation, and I'm not going to expect that knife any time soon. Therefore, thanks to solid, prompt communication, my expectations are properly set. I like that.

Oh, and the best part? He didn't take a dime from me up front, like he has a lot of you folks. Let me be frank for a second, I can't speak for anyone else here, but I would be friggin' pissed if I'd paid for my knife up front, and despite repeatedly pushed back delivery dates, and a lack of communication, I was watching this guy attending all the industry shows and showing off prototypes for all this new stuff he was coming out with. Pretty sure I know where the money for doing all of that came from.

Anyway, short answer is, this thread cemented my mindset to pass on Survive!'s products. I see nothing I can't get elsewhere.

OK, I get that you won't be buying any of guy's knives, but why are you badmouthing him? Because you can?

RE: Industry Shows......

I don't want to skew the topic, but that has been a major gripe of mine also. A knife maker has a 4 or 5 year waiting list, but take 3 months out of the year to travel to knife shows and takes the
same knives that his customers are waiting for to sell on his table.

When I worked for a gunsmith in the PRK, a very famous knife maker visited on his way to a knife show. I bought up this topic. He didn't get angry, but he asked if he was expected to be chained
to his grinder 24/7. When I used to go to the Solvang knife show I would see some very famous knife makers who I knew had years worth of backlogs. It doesn't seem right to me, but what do I
know?

 

[Quiet]

OK, I get that you won't be buying any of guy's knives, but why are you badmouthing him? Because you can?

RE: Industry Shows......

I don't want to skew the topic, but that has been a major gripe of mine also. A knife maker has a 4 or 5 year waiting list, but take 3 months out of the year to travel to knife shows and takes the
same knives that his customers are waiting for to sell on his table.

When I worked for a gunsmith in the PRK, a very famous knife maker visited on his way to a knife show. I bought up this topic. He didn't get angry, but he asked if he was expected to be chained
to his grinder 24/7. When I used to go to the Solvang knife show I would see some very famous knife makers who I knew had years worth of backlogs. It doesn't seem right to me, but what do I
know?

Please show me where I'm badmouthing Guy. Have I called him names? Have I told lies when referencing his poor communication with customers or his repeated slipping of delivery dates? Or are you referring to my insinuation that his taking money for knives up front, and then going to industry shows where he showed off prototypes of new items while he still had customers who had paid for their knives sitting waiting without them, being pretty disingenuous? Because the rest of your post shows that you and I are on the same page there.

One thing that I think this thread is good for, is that it will separate people like me (who won't accept Guy's poor business practices) from the people who believe that his knives are super amazing and worth the wait and are fine with being kept in the dark. I wish those sorts of folks all the best, and hope they get some of Guy's products and are happy with them. I was merely answering your question, and supporting your assertion that yes, this thread HAS turned sales away from Survive (I'm not typing that dumb exclamation mark) knives, but has done so by many, many customers sharing their experiences with us in a candid way, not "piling on" or "shouting down" or whatever other stupid term some would like to use.

And if Guy doesn't like that, well, that's on him, not me, nor any of other folks who longtime lurker non-contributors like Presumed_Lost feel are just bad-mouthing, just to be bad-mouthing.

 

[UffDa]

Fine. Whatever.

 

[james terrio]

JT, if you re-read your post earlier, I hope you can see why some may think the specificness a bit odd for someone who's never held one of the knives, especially from a competitor. I'm not sure I could find a reason to jump into a thread with a sarcastic post about another sheath maker's product questioning their honesty and workmanship for any reason. It would probably look pretty biased. On that note, if you ever get the urge to actually handle a Survive! knife, let me know. You're welcome to borrow one of mine.

Point taken. Sarcasm is widely misunderstood, and in this case, often "seen" when it doesn't exist. That's just a hazard of the written word. I can only comment on what I see and ask about what others have reported. I'm going to leave my comments unedited so people can judge for themselves.

 

[Presumed_Lost]

... longtime lurker non-contributors like Presumed_Lost feel are just bad-mouthing, just to be bad-mouthing.

Gee, you know, you're right, that does sound sort of like bad-mouthing to me. It's so subtle it's hard to tell, but if jit WERE bad-mouthing it's hard to see how it would be much different...Sorry to be a "longtime lurker non-contributor", but fact is every time I get a bit active in forums I witness, or become the target of, exactly this sort of piling-on, shouting-down and ersatz-majority/consensus mob-rule and I end up leaving in disgust for years. Sometimes several years. Thanks for the reminder. Guess I'm just slow to learn.You don't like what G.S. does, you can take your business elsewhere, vote with your dollars. You don't like what I do, too bad, you don't get a vote.

 

[Quiet]

Gee, you know, you're right, that does sound sort of like bad-mouthing to me. It's so subtle it's hard to tell, but if jit WERE bad-mouthing it's hard to see how it would be much different...Sorry to be a "longtime lurker non-contributor", but fact is every time I get a bit active in forums I witness, or become the target of, exactly this sort of piling-on, shouting-down and ersatz-majority/consensus mob-rule and I end up leaving in disgust for years. Sometimes several years. Thanks for the reminder. Guess I'm just slow to learn.You don't like what G.S. does, you can take your business elsewhere, vote with your dollars. You don't like what I do, too bad, you don't get a vote.

Are you seriously going to play the victim card after you posted:

That was me, and, and yes, it was not just tongue-in-cheek, it was sarcasm, hoping to get some people to realize how absurd their arguments were. I thought, in whole, that it was over-the-top enough to be obvious. My sincere apologies if it was not. For the record, I am entirely pleased with the knife I bought from Survive! (so far, I haven't really put it through its paces yet) and my own purchasing experience, zero problems, and I intend to buy again. If anything, all of this nose-in-the-air moral superiority and haughty disdain has made me all the more willing to buy. The sarcasm was futile, of course. It's obvious that these guys (however many there really are) are determined to shout down anyone else and control the tone of the thread however long it takes.It has worked admirably elsewhere. I've seen the "piling on" and "shouting down" before in other venues to the point where it resulted in virtually complete control of what may be said there. The pattern is all too familiar to those who have been on these forums for many years. One might even say that it's recognizable.

If this wasn't mealy-mouthed passive-aggressive whining, I don't know what is. Even your last comment "You don't like what I do, too bad, you don't get to vote". No, no, I (like pretty much everyone else here) don't care what you do. There's a difference. You aren't important to me, and I don't care what you do, or what you do with your money. Please try to see past your hilariously oversized sense of self-importance and realize that people who see Guy's business practices candidly as they stand now and report on those here in this thread aren't:

- shouting down
- piling-on
- ganging up on anyone
- "controlling the tone of the thread"*

What IS happening in this thread is that current and past customers are candidly sharing the shortcomings they encountered during the process of buying, and then waiting for their knives while Guy's attentions were obviously elsewhere.

So, if that logic bothers you, and the posts you're making here in this thread are normal with you, I'll be honest: you leaving again "in disgust" for years doesn't really seem like a bad thing. If you can't debate with the other adults here without taking personal insult from it, that's not really an us problem, now is it? Good day.





*Ironically, I bet you if this thread was all rainbows and sunshine blown up Guy's ass, you'd be perfectly fine with that tone, as it aligns with your personal opinion, right? That's what I thought. Then "controlling the tone" would be ok. Right?

 

[Presumed_Lost]

Are you seriously going to play the victim card after you posted:



If this wasn't mealy-mouthed passive-aggressive whining, I don't know what is. Even your last comment "You don't like what I do, too bad, you don't get to vote". No, no, I (like pretty much everyone else here) don't care what you do. There's a difference. You aren't important to me, and I don't care what you do, or what you do with your money. Please try to see past your hilariously oversized sense of self-importance and realize that people who see Guy's business practices candidly as they stand now and report on those here in this thread aren't:

- shouting down
- piling-on
- ganging up on anyone
- "controlling the tone of the thread"*

What IS happening in this thread is that current and past customers are candidly sharing the shortcomings they encountered during the process of buying, and then waiting for their knives while Guy's attentions were obviously elsewhere.

So, if that logic bothers you, and the posts you're making here in this thread are normal with you, I'll be honest: you leaving again "in disgust" for years doesn't really seem like a bad thing. If you can't debate with the other adults here without taking personal insult from it, that's not really an us problem, now is it? Good day.





*Ironically, I bet you if this thread was all rainbows and sunshine blown up Guy's ass, you'd be perfectly fine with that tone, as it aligns with your personal opinion, right? That's what I thought. Then "controlling the tone" would be ok. Right?

What can I say? You've made my case better than I could.

 

[Quiet]

What can I say? You've made my case better than I could.

Actually, I've pointed out all of the issues with your "case", and no one here thinks I'm actually proving your case except you.

As long as we're being honest, I'll join in: what bothers me is when people like you come into a thread where people are sharing their candid experiences (many of which yes, are negative) and then you try to shame those people down, try to stop people from sharing the truth of a situation because you have taken a White Knight personal offense on behalf of the company being discussed. It's also a form of attempted censure. "I can't stand it when people say things I perceive as bad, about a company I'm a big fan of!" That is poor logic, and furthermore makes you look like a paid-for shill.

You know, I have to ask, are you Guy? Are you mad because people (like me) are stating that they won't be tolerating your currently poor business practices?

 

[james terrio]

Let's get back to discussing the topic, not each other.

 

[SaintlyBrees]

I am one of those who won't be giving this company any of my business. I'd rather wait for a product from a more established company, like Busse/Kin, Randall, or any number of others. At least they're upfront about their wait times. Also, they return emails promptly, I like that. This whole vanishing act Guy has repeatedly pulled on members here (after having their money?! WTF?) and repeatedly missed deadlines? NnnnnnOPE. Not doing it, no matter HOW many dewy-eyed fans he has here. Sorry.

I said it like fifteen pages ago and I'll say it again. These knives aren't anything worth being irritated over, and I can find plenty of other knives that will perform as well as Guy's will, at similar prices, but with significantly less hassle and vastly better communication...Anyway, short answer is, this thread cemented my mindset to pass on Survive!'s products. I see nothing I can't get elsewhere.

I came in here to make a comment, but found that Quiet (and marcinek earlier in the thread) has already stated my position quite well. There are more knives and knife makers in this world that interest me than I have money. So when the time comes to buy, one of my criteria is always - Does this maker have issues satisfying his customers? Those that have obvious, ongoing, issues simply aren't going to get my business when I can go elsewhere and get what I want without hassle.

I miss out on nothing except the possibility of dealing with a poorly run business. Guy might be a great person and make a decent product, but it isn't worth the effort and worry should he fail to deliver or communicate as a good business man will.

JMO - and I am not suggesting that others NOT buy from him, that is an individual decision that we each have to make. This is just an explanation of my philosophy and not an attempt to bad mouth anyone.

 

[Quiet]

Let's get back to discussing the topic, not each other.

I like that plan. :thumbup:

 

[Presumed_Lost]

Actually, I've pointed out all of the issues with your "case", and no one here thinks I'm actually proving your case except you.

As long as we're being honest, I'll join in: what bothers me is when people like you come into a thread where people are sharing their candid experiences (many of which yes, are negative) and then you try to shame those people down, try to stop people from sharing the truth of a situation because you have taken a White Knight personal offense on behalf of the company being discussed. It's also a form of attempted censure. "I can't stand it when people say things I perceive as bad, about a company I'm a big fan of!" That is poor logic, and furthermore makes you look like a paid-for shill.

You know, I have to ask, are you Guy? Are you mad because people (like me) are stating that they won't be tolerating your currently poor business practices?

I have to ask, are you Guy? Are you mad because people (like me) are stating that they won't be tolerating your currently poor business practices?

Never met the man, or communicated with him outside of the one order, which I just got a canned response to. I've stated, honestly, that I've owned exactly one of his knives for about a week and have handled one more, same model, that's the sum total of my first-hand knowledge. I would guess that if I were here to defend him I'd put myself in a position to speak authoritatively about a whole lot more, but I can't. Nor am I a "big fan". So far I'm pretty pleased with my one little purchase, that's it.

I don't expect you to believe me, of course, you're on a roll, now you're into into witch-hunt territory and I suppose you'll keep right on going.

And some in this thread have wondered why he doesn't hang out here and deal with this? Seriously?

 

[willythekid]

I have stated this before and will do again, I have never had an issue with Survive's blades... they are actually some of my favorites. But no one has really come on here to complain about the knives themselves. I think Guy could drastically change the perception of his company with a little simple communication. An email here and there letting his customers know that a) their knives will not be delivered when they were told the would, b) why this happened (a humble apology would go a long way) and c) give an accurate time-frame as to when you plan on getting your customers the product they have already payed for. He could come on BFs and explain why there has been so long of a wait for his knives... I would love for him to explain why it took almost a year for him to get orange g10 handles machined for his customers on the GSO-10 preorder. Maybe, just maybe, he should look to someone else if it's taking that long. My point is that Guy gives off the perception that he could give rat's ass what some (not all I realize) of his customer's concerns are. As I wait for my prepaid GSO 3.5 I have heard, second hand through the forum and not through Guy, that we would be receiving them at the end of December, then middle of January and finally someone from Survive to a member here that the would be shipping at the beginning of this month. All not true, just smoke blow up peoples you-know-whats to get them off their backs for a time.

 

[Presumed_Lost]

Well, that didn't work at all...

 

[Quiet]

Never met the man, or communicated with him outside of the one order, which I just got a canned response to. I've stated, honestly, that I've owned exactly one of his knives for about a week and have handled one more, same model, that's the sum total of my first-hand knowledge. I would guess that if I were here to defend him I'd put myself in a position to speak authoritatively about a whole lot more, but I can't. Nor am I a "big fan". So far I'm pretty pleased with my one little purchase, that's it.

I don't expect you to believe me, of course, you're on a roll, now you're into into witch-hunt territory and I suppose you'll keep right on going.

And some in this thread have wondered why he doesn't hang out here and deal with this? Seriously?

Nope, you'd be wrong. I don't actually think you're Guy from Survive Knives, because if you were Guy, your posts here would (ideally) have been an apology for keeping people waiting and in the dark for his products. I merely asked you that to poke you a little, pretty much in response to your attempts at poking others with all these assertions that everyone "complaining" is only doing so to "control the tone of the thread". I don't think anyone here is saying "OMG Don't buy from Survive Knives!!! They're terrible, and Guy is secretly an enemy spy, here to sow discord with terrible weapons like Long Wait Times of Doom and Communications Blackout of Apathy!!!"

No one has told anyone here not to buy from Guy. Some, like myself, have said that we will not buy from Guy, because we don't appreciate his current business practices. And that's all. And let me be clear on my position. A company CAN have long wait times for a product, or bad communication....but not both. I've ordered knives from companies before, and I never even got so much as a confirmation email. But that wasn't an issue, when my knife arrived on my doorstep the next week. I've had (and currently have on order) knives that will have long wait times...but those times were clearly communicated to me, by a knife-maker with good (and prompt) communication flow skills.

That's all. So, let's keep things in perspective. I mean, look at the title of this thread: "All That Is Survive! Knives, Post Here Reopened". Why was it locked in the first place? Were people just smack-talking SK and Guy, or were they customers who were pissed because Guy's not a great businessman? I don't know, and don't care. All I know is what I've said. I won't be buying from Guy, but I sincerely and wholeheartedly wish those who do all the best.

Now then, I'm shelving this, because neither of us are the focal point of this thread. Good day.

 

[Sonnydaze]

I've read many of these posts, and figured I would respond. I have one of Guy's earlier 4.1 GSO knives, and it is great.
I recently contacted Survive to inquire about my 3.5 preorder......
The blades are done; they are waiting on the G10 handles, after which the sheaths will have to be made. Probably into March before I get mine. I ordered in September, so yes, I am ready to have it in hand.
Their intended move to a larger facility will permit increased production and hopefully eliminate long waiting times. Obviously, that is how a business grows, and I think it's a great (and necessary for survival) idea.
I was told that Guy is preparing a response, hopefully in this thread, (but perhaps in social media), in order to bring us up to date. I think that would be a stellar idea.
Sonnydaze

 

[willythekid]

I've read many of these posts, and figured I would respond. I have one of Guy's earlier 4.1 GSO knives, and it is great.
I recently contacted Survive to inquire about my 3.5 preorder......
The blades are done; they are waiting on the G10 handles, after which the sheaths will have to be made. Probably into March before I get mine. I ordered in September, so yes, I am ready to have it in hand.
Their intended move to a larger facility will permit increased production and hopefully eliminate long waiting times. Obviously, that is how a business grows, and I think it's a great (and necessary for survival) idea.
I was told that Guy is preparing a response, hopefully in this thread, (but perhaps in social media), in order to bring us up to date. I think that would be a stellar idea.
Sonnydaze

I would love to hear this response... that is what most of us that are upset really ask for. Keep us informed if the product goes that far over schedule. If he doesn't even have a handle done in order to get started on sheaths we are in for a heck of a wait still... hope I'm wrong.

Edit: I wanted to comment briefly on the move to a larger facility in order to increase production... this is what his customers were told when he moved into his present facility. Then he proceeded to take on even more orders he couldn't handle in timely fashion. I hope he straightens this out eventually but for now it just seems like a broken record.