Allan Blade

Nathan S said:
Agreed. Can't figure out why the good people at British Blades don't feel the same way.

Lets be clear on this, it's not because we lack understanding or sympathy.

We are just taking a different approach to resolving the same issue. We know that Allen has let a lot of people down. We also know that if all the doors are slammed shut, he's gonna walk way from it and everyone looses. Over the last 3 years or so (since Allan has been trading on BB and elsewhere), he has sent out knives to people he owed. Would this of happened if all the trading doors had been shut?

Maybe, maybe not. I honestly dont know.

Point is, Bladeforums is Bladeforums and Britishblades is Britishblades, different places with different ways of doing stuff. Though I believe we are both aiming for the same resolution, we are just heading about it in a different way on BB.

Cougar may be right, but please be asured that just because we are handling things differtently, doesnt mean we are not trying for the same result.

Regards,
Martyn.
 
Martyn@BB said:
Lets be clear on this, it's not because we lack understanding or sympathy.

We are just taking a different approach to resolving the same issue. We know that Allen has let a lot of people down. We also know that if all the doors are slammed shut, he's gonna walk way from it and everyone looses. Over the last 3 years or so (since Allan has been trading on BB and elsewhere), he has sent out knives to people he owed. Would this of happened if all the trading doors had been shut?

Maybe, maybe not. I honestly dont know.

Point is, Bladeforums is Bladeforums and Britishblades is Britishblades, different places with different ways of doing stuff. Though I believe we are both aiming for the same resolution, we are just heading about it in a different way on BB.

Cougar may be right, but please be asured that just because we are handling things differtently, doesnt mean we are not trying for the same result.

Regards,
Martyn.



Please don't take this wrong, but I'm curious about the result or resolution that you and or the folks at BB are seeking ?

If you don't wish to publicize it here, feel free to shoot me an e-mail.
 
GigOne said:
Please don't take this wrong, but I'm curious about the result or resolution that you and or the folks at BB are seeking ?

If you don't wish to publicize it here, feel free to shoot me an e-mail.

We want Allan Blade to carry on making and selling knives and we want the people Allan owes money to, to either get their cash back or get their knives.
 
Martyn@BB said:
Lets be clear on this, it's not because we lack understanding or sympathy.

We are just taking a different approach to resolving the same issue. We know that Allen has let a lot of people down. We also know that if all the doors are slammed shut, he's gonna walk way from it and everyone looses. Over the last 3 years or so (since Allan has been trading on BB and elsewhere), he has sent out knives to people he owed. Would this of happened if all the trading doors had been shut?

Maybe, maybe not. I honestly dont know.

Point is, Bladeforums is Bladeforums and Britishblades is Britishblades, different places with different ways of doing stuff. Though I believe we are both aiming for the same resolution, we are just heading about it in a different way on BB.

Cougar may be right, but please be asured that just because we are handling things differtently, doesnt mean we are not trying for the same result.

Regards,
Martyn.



Please don't take this wrong, but I'm curious about the result or resolution that you and or the folks at BB are seeking ?

If you don't wish to publicize it here, feel free to shoot me an e-mail.
 
Manuscript Found in a Garbage Can

FIRST BANKER: John Dillinger keeps robbing banks. We have to stop him! Let's give all the information we have to the police and help them catch him.

SECOND BANKER: That wouldn't be very nice. No, let's loan him some money. Then he'll stop robbing us and get a job so he can make the payments.

THIRD BANKER: Brilliant! We'll get him to stop robbing us and start working for us. He's an honest fellow at heart, all he needs is a little trust.

FIRST BANKER: Hasn't that been tried before?

THIRD BANKER: Shut up.

SECOND BANKER: As a premium for accepting the loan, we'll give him a free mask.

THIRD BANKER: A free mask, and some free ammunition for his machine gun.

FIRST BANKER shouts unintelligibly (ad lib). He appears to be upset about something, but SECOND BANKER and THIRD BANKER can't understand what FIRST BANKER is so upset about ...
 
You may be right Cougar.

But it's not a question of blind faith in human nature, naivety or misplaced trust for that matter.

We know who he is and what he's done - he may well do it again, I wouldn't be in the least surprised. However, if we close down his market, he wont make any knives, he will go away, no one will get paid and no one will get what they're owed. It would certainly be naive to think otherwise.

Three years ago I made a decision to allow him to trade on BB. Since then, Allan has sold many knives and has paid "some" of his debts. To my knowledge, everyone who has ordered from him on BritishBlades, has got their knife (so far). We haven't made any attempt to hide the history from people - they can all read this thread if they like anyway. They know what they're getting into.

I'm pretty sure Allan realises that if he trashes a deal on BritishBlades (or one of the other British forums he trades on), he wont get a third chance.

We can debate this all day, but the bottom line is that so long as Allan keeps making knives and people keep getting them, and a few people get knives or money they are owed as well, we will keep letting him trade. Regardless of what you think of the man (and I do understand the anger), there is no other option that gives as much mileage.

Regards,
Martyn.
 
Martyn@BB said:
I'm pretty sure Allan realises that if he trashes a deal on BritishBlades (or one of the other British forums he trades on), he wont get a third chance.

Sure he will, he just has to find yet another forum where people are willing to accept the fact that he rips other people off as long as he doesn't commit crimes against them, until he does, and then he goes somewhere else so it can continue yet again until at some point he runs out of people with this attitude or he just does it to everyone.

-Cliff
 
Oh dear the questions on BB are being asked in slightly more urgent tones. still no knives, surprise, surprise!!!. Even the link to this discussion seems to being passed by PM. To believe that keeping Allen Blade taking orders(and money) will ensure that everyone lives happily ever after, shows a level of naievety that is almost unbelievable. it is the continuing flow of money that allows the man to keep doing what he does...rip people off!!!!
Phil
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Sure he will, he just has to find yet another forum where people are willing to accept the fact that he rips other people off as long as he doesn't commit crimes against them, until he does, and then he goes somewhere else so it can continue yet again until at some point he runs out of people with this attitude or he just does it to everyone.

-Cliff

Guess we're all screwed then, eh Cliff? ;)
 
pmel018 said:
To believe that keeping Allen Blade taking orders(and money) will ensure that everyone lives happily ever after, shows a level of naievety that is almost unbelievable. it is the continuing flow of money that allows the man to keep doing what he does...rip people off!!!!
Phil

Mate, if you're gonna acuse someone of naivety, at least learn to spell it. ;)

Look, In the last 3 years of trading on BritishBlades, everyone who has ordered from him, has got a knife - so far, that is.

If that changes, then our tolerance of him will change also.

But he aint fo a lynchin yet Jimbob. :)
 
Well, you can't expect an old manuscript found in a garbage can to be an exact allegory of current events.... Speaking for myself, I am angry at the criminal, not at the victims.

I understand it is not the policy of the administration over there to suppress information about Allen Blade. Nonetheless, information was suppressed, as recounted in this thread and others by members of both forums. Not all the moderators over there are responsible for those actions; I think that's clear to everybody, but denying that it happened isn't going to help. THIRD BANKER did tell FIRST BANKER to shut up, even though SECOND BANKER didn't.

He's had more than three chances already.

I'm afraid it will soon become clear whether Allen Blade has used his current chance to deal honestly with new customers and make a little bit of redress for old wrongs, or whether he has paid out a few pittances as an investment to enable him to take in far more money for more knives he will never deliver.

We've had a lot of argument here at Bladeforums over the years over whether 'tis better to do business with Allen Blade on a cash basis in the hope that he will use some of the money he earns to pay old debts, or whether 'tis better to boycott him until he makes good (or just boycott him without any expectation that he will ever make good). The one thing we've all agreed on (including Allen Blade himself) is no one should pay him a cent for knives that he hasn't delivered yet. A knife knut sending money to Allen Blade without having the knife in your hot little hand is like a banker giving John Dillinger a free mask and ammunition for his machine gun. The only difference is in the real world, FIRST BANKER is not going to be robbed again. SECOND BANKER and THIRD BANKER are only hurting themselves.

I don't know whether boycotting him could make him pay off old debts faster. It could hardly make him pay them slower, though. And now he isn't even making promises. Now he's quit paying even pittances to Joe Chen, and he's denying he owes anything to the late Rob Simonich's widow. I don't mean to accuse anyone at British Blades of any responsibility for that -- that certainly isn't your responsibility. It's his responsibility.

Now he has some of your money (How much money? Has anyone figured up the total?) and the knives he promised to deliver have not been delivered ... yet ... I'm not angry at you guys at all. You have nothing but sympathy from me.
 
Cougar Allen said:
Well, you can't expect an old manuscript found in a garbage can to be an exact allegory of current events.... Speaking for myself, I am angry at the criminal, not at the victims.

I understand it is not the policy of the administration over there to suppress information about Allen Blade.
Just to be clear on this Cougar, ...my policy, I'm the sole owner of BritishBlades and it was my decision to allow him to trade.
Nonetheless, information was suppressed, as recounted in this thread and others by members of both forums. Not all the moderators over there are responsible for those actions; I think that's clear to everybody, but denying that it happened isn't going to help. THIRD BANKER did tell FIRST BANKER to shut up, even though SECOND BANKER didn't.
It wasnt information that was suppressed, it was the mob. A subtle, but important difference.

Technically. what happens on Bladeforums, happens on here and has nothing to do with BritishBlades or visa versa. Niether website owes a debt to either. It's an important starting point if you are inferring some kind of global responsibility.

However ...yes there is also a moral responsibility that goes beyond websites and it was considered. We were totally aware oif Allans history. I'd read the threads on here and was aware of Joe's issues (and others) and I discussed it with our mods. One of our admins had waited over 4 years for a knife from Allan - the situation was well known to us.

As you say, it's been discussed at length. There is a lot of emotion driving the issues, but what is apparent is thast if the bloke is globally black-balled, he aint ever gonna pay a single penny back. Though that may satisfy the wolves baying for blood, it isn't the most productive solution. I took the decision to allow Allan to trade, because I believe it's the only solution that is actually gonna produce any kind of result - even if it's a painfully slow result, it's more thasn nothing.

Once that decision was made, I wasn't gonna allow a vendetta mob from another forum to invade the place, with the sole intention of digitally eviscerating him - or anyone else. People were warned that a mobbing of Allan Blade on the BB forums would get em banned. That had nothing to do with my affection for the man, or suppression of information. It was suppression of the mob and it's just the way I run the place.

He's had more than three chances already.
It's irrelevant really. If he screws anyone over at all on BritishBlades, I'll stop him from trading - it'll affect his trading status on other British forums as well - it's a small world.
I'm afraid it will soon become clear whether Allen Blade has used his current chance to deal honestly with new customers and make a little bit of redress for old wrongs, or whether he has paid out a few pittances as an investment to enable him to take in far more money for more knives he will never deliver.

We've had a lot of argument here at Bladeforums over the years over whether 'tis better to do business with Allen Blade on a cash basis in the hope that he will use some of the money he earns to pay old debts, or whether 'tis better to boycott him until he makes good (or just boycott him without any expectation that he will ever make good).
This is the crux. I honestly dont know and you may well be right. All I can say is that I think I took the deciscion that provided the most mileage out of the situation, but it was always equivocal. We may soon find out.

The one thing we've all agreed on (including Allen Blade himself) is no one should pay him a cent for knives that he hasn't delivered yet. A knife knut sending money to Allen Blade without having the knife in your hot little hand is like a banker giving John Dillinger a free mask and ammunition for his machine gun. The only difference is in the real world, FIRST BANKER is not going to be robbed again. SECOND BANKER and THIRD BANKER are only hurting themselves.

I don't know whether boycotting him could make him pay off old debts faster. It could hardly make him pay them slower, though. And now he isn't even making promises. Now he's quit paying even pittances to Joe Chen, and he's denying he owes anything to the late Rob Simonich's widow. I don't mean to accuse anyone at British Blades of any responsibility for that -- that certainly isn't your responsibility. It's his responsibility.
Yes it is. We (you and I) just do what we think is right Cougar, and it either pans out or it doesnt - and we live with the fallout either way.

Now he has some of your money (How much money? Has anyone figured up the total?)

Personally?

He doesnt have any of my money, I never fancied the odds. ;) :D

For BritishBlades? I've no idea. I'll guess we'll add it all up once we've been stung. :rolleyes:
 
I was never threatened with being banned, just asked not to post stuff that would be likely to start a shyte storm. I suppose if I had posted anyway, that I would have received the warning.

Allan is starting his bad habits again. He is taking money for knives that aren't made. This money is not being used for materialss to make knives, but instead to pay for family medical expenses. A person can't do that for very long before he runs out of materials. At that point real problems can develop.

I really hope that everyone that has paid for a knife from Allan get them. Looking at past history this is a very iffy scenario.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
I really hope that everyone that has paid for a knife from Allan get them. Looking at past history this is a very iffy scenario.

So do I and yes it is.
 
Martyn@BB said:
It's irrelevant really. If he screws anyone over at all on BritishBlades, I'll stop him from trading - it'll affect his trading status on other British forums as well - it's a small world.

Is that dry British humor? You guys knew full well that Alan is a thief and yet you allowed him to sell on your site because he didn't steal from you. Yet. BUT... you think that when you get burned that others will see it as an example and not deal with him anymore. We thought people would have learned from the examples here too. They didn't apparently. The only difference is no one told the BF members about it beforehand if I understand it correctly.

What's the sand look like from below the surface? (That position also leaves your butt up in the air where Alan likes em.:thumbdn: )
 
One of our colleagues at BB stated "I think it is unlikely that they are all lost in the post and I hope that they are coming."

I believe it is likely that they were lost in the post. I believe we will soon see a post from Allan Blade stating that, to save money and lower the risk of any one knife being lost, he shipped all knives in the same package to an acquaintance in Britain. This acquaintance was to then disseminate the knives to their new owners. However, this acquaintance will have reported back to him that the knives were lost in the mail; scooped up by Customs and lost; or were lost during a burglary of his home. In any event, the knives were made and shipped but due to circumstances beyond Allan Blade's control, they were lost.

Allan, I'm sorry I blew your story before you had a chance to implement it, but there is still plenty of time to gin up another one.
 
I used to support Allen Blade,I figured he was sincere and in order to pay back he would have to continue to make money.Since he hasn't made good on his promises to Joe and amounts promised,I see no point in supporting his knifemaking.He should be banned from every forum and it is unethical for anybody to attempt business with this person.If you give him any business you are supporting him and his family financially which he is undeserving.He is unlikely based on his past practice to resolve his debts,so there is no point to continue patronizing his business.
I find it sad that forum members on British Blades were unsupportive of bladeforums and even made remarks about what was tolerated here.Knowing full well what was going on,they continued to support this knifemaker.To me,that added insult to injury, for fellow knifenuts to give business to a person that wronged so many people.
 
TOMBSTONE said:
I used to support Allen Blade,I figured he was sincere and in order to pay back he would have to continue to make money.Since he hasn't made good on his promises to Joe and amounts promised,I see no point in supporting his knifemaking.He should be banned from every forum and it is unethical for anybody to attempt business with this person.If you give him any business you are supporting him and his family financially which he is undeserving.He is unlikely based on his past practise to resolve his debts,so there is no point to continue patronizing his business.
I find it sad that forum members on British Blades were unsupportive of bladeforums and even made remarks about what was tolerated here.

Sorry you feel that way.

You have been told why BritishBlades chose a different way to handle this situation. Take it or leave it, believe it or dont - your choice. Frankly I couldn't give a rats ass either way.

I think you'll find BritishBlades owes Bladeforums nothing more than a courteous nod - a courtesy which is rapidly evaporating.

Good day gentlemen. :)
 
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