All's fair in love and SNARK!!

Status
Not open for further replies.
daizee said:
4 crew and a monkey, all are ok at the moment AFAIK. (I couldn't make that up).
Science party folk like me are basically just lookouts and bystanders at this point.
Click to expand...

I hate monkeys.... ALL of them. I wouldn't give a rat's ass if they all make the extinct list.

Doc
 
bigghoss said:
It's a real command, with a .45. Simple point-and-click interface.

That's a mac, that's about all they're good for.
Click to expand...

you must be a typical a consumer, not a programmer :)
 
worldwood said:
Whats the difference between edge retention and wear resistance?
Click to expand...

Hoo boy. Let's leave geometry out of it for now and just focus on the definitions.

Pure wear resistance means just that... how much a material resists being worn away. It can be tested very accurately by simply grinding or media-blasting a certain steel with a known abrasive, and weighing it before and after.

Edge retention is a lot more complex and involves several characteristics; wear resistance is only one of them. Resistance to chipping or breakage (toughness) plays a big role, too. (think ceramic blades... it doesn't matter much if an edge is highly wear-resistant, if it chips out the first time it encounters anything but fresh fish.) This is commonly measured by something called a "Charpy test". Basically they take a piece of material and see how much impact it takes to break it.

On the other hand, strength/hardness (resistance to deformation) is important too... it's nice if your edge doesn't chip, but not so nice if it just folds over when you try to use it. This is what Rockwell hardness testing measures... how much does the test point deform the steel?

Corrosion-resistance does play a part in all this, but not as directly. It only comes into context when an edge is subjected to moisture, salt etc and literally rusts away.

Generally, there's a fair degree of compromise between these attributes... the old "carbon vs. stainless" debate hinges largely on steels that are tough and easy to sharpen but don't stay sharp very long, and steels that are less tough and more difficult to sharpen, but stay sharp a lot longer... as long as they don't chip. Studying all this has led to some really remarkable steels in the last couple decades, and you don't really have to make such a disparate choice anymore if you don't want to. There's a lot of middle ground, so to to speak, with steels that overlap into the "best of both worlds".


When steel geeks get all wound up about "well-balanced" alloys, that's what we're blathering on about... the "Holy Grail" is a steel/HT protocol that allows for a high degree of wear-resistance PLUS a high degree of toughness, PLUS high strength... and it should be reasonably stable (resist rust) in sometimes very caustic environments.

The short answer is "CPM-3V" followed closely by "Elmax". INFI ain't too shabby either. :D
 
Thanks james!!

I actually honestly though about asking this question in your subforum :D I just didnt know where i should put it, or if it would be "OK" to ask there.

you should make a "Ask Terrio" thread :D but hell then you may never be able to get any work done with all the questions you get in!!

This thread here in Busse S/F talks about Infi VS 3V, Its titled anyone else have a 3v knife out perform their Busse, and is one of the reasons I had this question. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...e-else-have-a-3V-knife-outperform-their-Busse

And there is A LOT of great info there from a lot of different people, Not just Jerry's input either. They are pretty cool about letting people compare anything against his Infi without bashing them for doing so. Thats respectable IMO.

Thank you very much once again for taking me to SCHOOL!! Between you and Daizees explanations I have learned quite a bit tonight! Thanks guys!!!
 
worldwood said:
Thanks james!!

I actually honestly though about asking this question in your subforum :D I just didnt know where i should put it, or if it would be "OK" to ask there.

you should make a "Ask Terrio" thread :D
Click to expand...

I already did. Since that sort of thing comes up pretty often, I'll be including a write-up on it there... just haven't gotten to it yet. ;)
 
I always enjoy reading about steel properties in relation to knife making.
Thanks Daizee and JT for the information. And thanks for keeping it short and sweet. Sometimes it's hard for me to stay attentive if the information gets too detailed or drawn out.
 
You're quite welcome. Sometimes I have the same prob- hey look, a squirrel!

:p
 
James, have you worked at all with M390? I've been really impressed with the one knife I have in that steel. 3V is my go-to for swords and such, right now. I haven't tried Elmax yet.
 
Any of you guys have a suggestion for polishing compound cheaper than Flitz?

I had a tube that was dang near still full, and my mistake i set it where i shouldnt have and didnt remember last time i used it and i go back just now to get it and use some... But the tube was squished and leaking all over thanks to some heavy items just thrown on top of it.

But that stuff isnt cheap, is there a cheaper product that works as good?
 
Crimson, Hows it going bud?


I never had the pleasure of beating on 3V. Soon this problem will be corrected!!!
 
worldwood said:
Yea i thought i may of mixed it up, sorry.

And thank you for taking the time to clear this up for me, you made it much easier to understand :D

To briefly summarize: Wear resistance is just one thing that factors into edge retention. Along with toughness and edge geometry. ???

Please tell me i didnt screw it up again... otherwise i need a dunce cap.
Click to expand...

yep, that's right. Oh, and hardness. don't forget hardness. ;-)

I'm no materials scientist, but I believe hardness and toughness can be summarized as:
hardness = resistance to deformation
toughness = returning to original state after deformation (springiness)
 
crimsonfalcon07 said:
James, have you worked at all with M390? I've been really impressed with the one knife I have in that steel. 3V is my go-to for swords and such, right now. I haven't tried Elmax yet.
Click to expand...

I have not, but it sure looks interesting. :)

daizee said:
hardness = resistance to deformation.
Click to expand...

Correct.

daizee said:
toughness = returning to original state after deformation (springiness)
Click to expand...

Nope! It doesn't have to return to its original state to be considered tough, it just shouldn't break. A bent blade coming back to straight is a function of its hardness. Given the same geometry, an annealed bar of steel XYZ will bend and stay bent... a properly hardened one will bend and spring back to true. Again, that's a function of hardness = resistance to deformation.

Whether or not the blade bends at all has very little to do with either hardness or toughness, but depends almost entirely on its cross section/geometry. A 1/16" blade at either 40Rc or 62Rc will flex quite easily... a 3/8" blade of the same steel and hardness will resist flexing very much. For more reading on that, look up "modulous of elasticity".

It's easy to get confuzzled by all this, because the terms are thrown around willy-nilly by advertising gurus and self-proclaimed egg-spurts... and are sometimes mixed up with a healthy dose of unmitigated BS. But for purposes of clarity and actually getting a grip on how/why steel fails, it's important to understand what these properties really mean.

P.S. don't take my word for it on this stuff, look it up. NOT on a knife forum... there's way too much conflicting nonsense to wade through. Ask an engineer :)
 
Last edited:
daizee said:
yep, that's right. Oh, and hardness. don't forget hardness. ;-)

I'm no materials scientist, but I believe hardness and toughness can be summarized as:
hardness = resistance to deformation
toughness = returning to original state after deformation (springiness)
Click to expand...

Very nice!! Thanks for this info as well, This helps a BUNCH man :D

bigghoss said:
Feeling much better this morning but still got a ways to go before I'm 100%
Click to expand...

Glad your getting better, Everyone over in this house went thru some sort of 2-3 day virus in the last several days as well. ROUGH! Glad it played its role and got the hell on.


Oh and it looks like i wont NOT have a BK9 for much longer at all :D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top