An open address, and my last post in this forum..( Or..How NOT to act on a forum )

Status
Not open for further replies.
I think everyone has a right to their opinion. I have been a fan of the OP's channel for a while, but I think this could have been brought up privately or in the other thread, don't really think this needed it's own thread. Some people like ZT's performance, some don't. Not everyone cuts through hardy backer with their knives, but not everyone sits around cutting paper with them either. Case by case basis, guess it depends on what you use it for. I don't think anyone should get offended by what OP said, and really shouldn't bring up constant drama getting started, but this thread shouldn't exist
 
Last edited:
This is the point I was trying to impress on youtube before Cliff Stamp threw a hissy fit.

As someone previously said, the drama isn't caused by the action or the results, it's from the way it is presented.

You posted another video showing Elmax up against S30v and they performed comparably. I don't think anyone would call Spyderco's S30V crap. Saying that Elmax performs poorly or isn't a good blade steel when it holds up against Spyderco's S30v just isn't the best way of phrasing the argument and invites the drama.

The discussion shouldn't be whether or not Elmax sucks, it should be about the advertised performance versus the actual performance. The steel is marketed as being a step up from S30v and the video shows that is not necessarily the case.
 
9blades post says so well what we all need to remember. There can be a lot of good in others posts even when we don't agree with them. We are here to discuss the company, the knives, the steels.

Unfortunately, this thread began as a personal manifesto. When others add personal remarks of their own, the thread is no longer about knives, and no longer dispassionate or even friendly. As a wise man once said, only the first post was off-topic. :D

Perhaps we can see it as a rant, and move it to the appointed forum. But it can never be released from Whine & Cheese, and considering what a brawl would ensue, I'd just as soon close it.

Instead, lets pretend to be serious, as I move it here from Kershaw / ZT
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/718-Knife-Reviews-amp-Testing
 
I have owned both ZT0561 and 0560. Sold both just because the Elmax steel doesn't hold an edge as it should. I'm kind of disappoint since its edge holding are noticeable worse than Benchmade's 154cm.
 
CrimsonTideShooter can you do a real world use video comparing ZT's 801(Elmax) to another ZT 300(S30v) and compare the results side by side in the video?Can you use the same test material like Manila rope or even carpet from the same exact stock?Please compare the ZT's S30v To the ZT's Elmax and post it here?
Thank you,
salmonkiller
 
Just last night, I was watching videos on the new Spyderco Domino on youtube and came across a comment from you on one of them.

"I just hate how Spyderco tries to pass off those scales as full CF. They are about 90% g10 with about 10% worth of CF overlaid on top."

This has been a non issue for the entire 2013 and I recall you being present/participating on the BF thread where Sal presented his side of the story already and squashed the drama by vowing to being clear when a CF knife is a laminate on the catalogs and descriptions. You made a video some weeks later demonstrating the laminate. This is has been beaten to death and is common knowledge at this point.

Then you added a second comment as a follow up to the first:

"Now that I look, they admit what it is. Bout time"

The thing is, it was never denied that it was a laminate and Sal (I trust the man's word, find me proof or a quote otherwise) has said that he never meant to mislead the public as anyone can see that IT IS a laminate, it isnt hidden... They just did not make it clear on their catalogs. So John, you have to take the effort to research if Spyderco is still "lying" about the laminate - why? So you can show the world what you found? Stir the pot again?

What I'm seeing is, it isn't about the validity of what your findings are... It is how you are so ready and willing to throw these companies under the bus for attention. Three or four times I gave you the benefit of the doubt since I do enjoy your vids. I didn't even want to know what happened between you and Mr. Reeve. You do give plenty of positive feedback to these companies also but I do see why people are taking offense towards your attitude and I how you go about your findings.

I hope you are ready for harsh criticism if your knifemaking endeavor takes off. Wouldn't surprise me if people that take offense with your attitude towards other businesses may say things about your knives that may not even be true.
 
Nullity said:
Do any of the knife manufacturers claim that Elmax is an upgrade from s30v?
Click to expand...

Maybe not marketed but I have read comments about Elmax's performance over S30v. Im not about to go on an hours long quote hunt though but it is pretty clear when a company chooses one steel over the other as their staple, higher cost and all.
 
This again? From purely an observer's standpoint, the pot is being stirred. BUT, you can't place all of that responsibility on Davis. KAI has shut down his threads, and treated him like he has no place questioning the mighty Kershaw Empire.

Davis stirred the pot that KAI created. He posted video evidence of a "super steel" not performing well. Instead of taking the criticism and walking away with dignity, KAI closed the threads, and labeled him a menace. That's just poking the bear. Predictably, the bear fought back, and was shunned again not only by the company trying to silence him, but by the rabid fanbase of that company.

That kind of back and forth bickering is nonsense. One guy blasting away at a company? Whatever. We all have opinions. A company bickering with that one guy? Sorry, but that has bad news written all over it. It is up to the COMPANY to save face in that situation, and let the situation dissolve on its own. I've said this before: Whomever is in charge of the KAI account on bladeforums is IN NO WAY the right person for the job.

I'm not a fan of Kershaw knives. The designs just don't do it for me. But occasionally, I see one and think "maybe". BUT, then I remember the projected "attitude" of the "company" here on BF, and I want nothing to do with their brand. I let my money talk, and as such, Kershaw won't be getting any from me. Do they care? This may sound self-important, but I sure hope they do.

This thread is martyrdom, and ugly. But I do appreciate the light that it brings to this needlessly-ongoing situation.

I also appreciate that it was put in a place where KAI can't close the thread (I hope) ;)
 
I don't always agree with him but i like his YouTube channel and will continue to support him. Good luck with the knifemaking!
 
Cypress, i wish you had interpreted my moving this to Knife Reviews & Testing as a plea to discuss the steel, not the drama. That's what went wrong in the Kershaw / ZT forum. It might have worked there; it is completely inappropriate here.

If you need to follow up on that unfortunate topic, you may take your chances in Kershaw / ZT or you might do better to begin a thread in FEEDBACK.
 
Cypress said:
This again? From purely an observer's standpoint, the pot is being stirred. BUT, you can't place all of that responsibility on Davis. KAI has shut down his threads, and treated him like he has no place questioning the mighty Kershaw Empire.

Davis stirred the pot that KAI created. He posted video evidence of a "super steel" not performing well. Instead of taking the criticism and walking away with dignity, KAI closed the threads, and labeled him a menace. That's just poking the bear. Predictably, the bear fought back, and was shunned again not only by the company trying to silence him, but by the rabid fanbase of that company.

That kind of back and forth bickering is nonsense. One guy blasting away at a company? Whatever. We all have opinions. A company bickering with that one guy? Sorry, but that has bad news written all over it. It is up to the COMPANY to save face in that situation, and let the situation dissolve on its own. I've said this before: Whomever is in charge of the KAI account on bladeforums is IN NO WAY the right person for the job.

I'm not a fan of Kershaw knives. The designs just don't do it for me. But occasionally, I see one and think "maybe". BUT, then I remember the projected "attitude" of the "company" here on BF, and I want nothing to do with their brand. I let my money talk, and as such, Kershaw won't be getting any from me. Do they care? This may sound self-important, but I sure hope they do.

This thread is martyrdom, and ugly. But I do appreciate the light that it brings to this needlessly-ongoing situation.

I also appreciate that it was put in a place where KAI can't close the thread (I hope) ;)
Click to expand...

Very well said, Cypress. I agree and I like Kershaw/ZT.

I'd like to see KAI perform AND publish it's own testing, instead of what it is doing now.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Cypress, i wish you had interpreted my moving this to Knife Reviews & Testing as a plea to discuss the steel, not the drama. That's what went wrong in the Kershaw / ZT forum. It might have worked there; it is completely inappropriate here.

If you need to follow up on that unfortunate topic, you may take your chances in Kershaw / ZT or you might do better to begin a thread in FEEDBACK.
Click to expand...

My mistake. There was a similar thread in FEEDBACK about KAI's attitude and closing threads... As it played out, it *was* resolved. That didn't last long. The intention behind the move was a hopeful one, but the drama ball was already rolling.

Can't stop the signal, Mal ;)

As for ELMAX, I'd like to see some data from Kershaw backing up their end of this squabble. I do like to see both sides of the coin...
 
Is a softer heat-treat universally inferior to a harder heat-treat, or do they simply have different attributes?
Edge retention is only one of the ways to quantify a blade steel.

Who is to say that KAI's Elmax is performing any different than KAI wants it to?
Perhaps toughness and ease of sharpening was their primary concern.

I do not understand this selfish viewpoint that if the steel is not perfect for my particular test/usage then it must be changed for everyone. KAI has many customers with many different priorities. KAI needs to make as many happy customers as possible, not just the obsessively quantifying aficionados.
 
TEFL0N_D0N_81 said:
You should see people defending INFI, CRK S30v, tri-ad lock, etc. KAI said a while back that they're looking into it. I'm cool with that, and I'm cool with your viewpoints too.

Saw your preliminary testing on the 0560CBCF S110V. Looks very promising.
Click to expand...


No need to defend INFI, that stuff will defend it's self. You might hear a Steely Knock on your door late at night. Don't answer the door. Remain in bed, and be quiet. INFI is on your door step, and it's gonna kick some but. Just toss a few cinder blocks out the window, and they will work out all their anger on the bricks, and leave.
 
Bigfattyt said:
TEFL0N_D0N_81 said:
You should see people defending INFI, CRK S30v, tri-ad lock, etc. KAI said a while back that they're looking into it. I'm cool with that, and I'm cool with your viewpoints too.

Saw your preliminary testing on the 0560CBCF S110V. Looks very promising.
Click to expand...


No need to defend INFI, that stuff will defend it's self. You might hear a Steely Knock on your door late at night. Don't answer the door. Remain in bed, and be quiet. INFI is on your door step, and it's gonna kick some but. Just toss a few cinder blocks out the window, and they will work out all their anger on the bricks, and leave.
Click to expand...

Perfect example.
 
FCM415 said:
Maybe not marketed but I have read comments about Elmax's performance over S30v. Im not about to go on an hours long quote hunt though but it is pretty clear when a company chooses one steel over the other as their staple, higher cost and all.
Click to expand...

I think if you did the research, you would see that the cost of elmax is pretty much the same as s30v. Kershaw doesn't charge you any mite money for a knife with elmax
either.

It's it really that clear? In the video the performance of elmax and s30v is very close. Maybe Kershaw just has a better relationship with bohler than they do crucible, who's to say.
 
Can someone please Do a test of ZT's S30v side by side to ZT's Elmax with the same cuts on the same media?
 
I recall you criticizing the performance of Spyderco's S35VN in the Native5. The company responded by doing more testing as did other Spyderco owners. No one else found a problem with the steel. So that makes me question your result with the 0801.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top