An open address, and my last post in this forum..( Or..How NOT to act on a forum )

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I am amazed at what people are praising as a good post around here. No one said that ELMAX sucks, in fact it was quite the opposite if you watched the video... want was said, and this is a paraphrase is that ELMAX is a great steel but there are issues with KAI's use of ELMAX and based of empirical video evidence, this seems like a reasonable conclusion.

Now calling all others paper cutters and bread butter users is a bit unfair but when you look at pictures of people "hard use" knives it does look like they ain't seeing much hard use. I also did see jdavis welcome video evidence contrary to his claims and none has been provided... only finger pointing and drama...

As an impartial person in all this it's hard for me to not believe what is clear in video from different folks showing KIA'a ELMAX perform at a level consistent with much cheaper steels. I would really like to see video counter to what has been presented in a way that I can witness and consume...
 
I like the 'coming away wiser and smarter' part.

9blades said:
Look. As hard as it is to admit, we all have some fanboy-ish tendencies. No one likes to hear negative comments about a company (or knife) that they support and enjoy. It's just the way it is, no one is impartial or neutral. This is just my opinion. When I hear "ELMAX sucks" the first thing that pops into my mind is "what an @$$hole bashing ZT" when really it should by "why does this guy think ELMAX sucks?". Sometimes I need to take a minute and push aside my fanboy half.

If you had a bad experience with ZT's ELMAX I don't care. mine has been just fine and I will continue to buy their product. I'm not saying your wrong or your lying, I'm just saying my knives from ZT have been great. I'm not going to say that kershaw or ZT has never sent out a defective knife, pretty much every company has at some point. The point is a very small fraction of a percent are.

What I'm trying to say is we all have an opinion and they're all different. So lets try and understand others opinions before we judge them. Even then, the goal shouldn't be to win, but for both party's to come away a little smarter.

Just throwing in my 2 cents.

Kirby
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AF said:
I recall you criticizing the performance of Spyderco's S35VN in the Native5. The company responded by doing more testing as did other Spyderco owners. No one else found a problem with the steel. So that makes me question your result with the 0801.
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I think this is the whole point, what I clearly heard was a call for more empirical evidence on video to support KAI's ELMAX performance...
 
It cracks me up how people get so worked up over a steel choice. I'd wager 80% of folks on here will never user their knives to the extent that they will notice the performance difference between 420HC vs S90V.
 
Smokinape said:
I think this is the whole point, what I clearly heard was a call for more empirical evidence on video to support KAI's ELMAX performance...
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Well my point was that his testing methodology is flawed. It may appear straightforward and irrefutable in a short video clip showing a sharp knife quickly dull...but again, how do you explain how he was able to quickly dull the Spyderco when no one else was able to do so?
Of course, more testing would be great.
 
Where is the empirical data justifying the use of ELMAX over other steels? If its performance isn't superior to s30v why switch to it for so many models?
 
Fanglekai said:
Where is the empirical data justifying the use of ELMAX over other steels? If its performance isn't superior to s30v why switch to it for so many models?
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Users look for performance. Manufacturers consider economics. Maybe it's cheaper, more available, easier to machine, or a shorter name to remember than some others alphanumerics.
 
Smokinape said:
As an impartial person in all this it's hard for me to not believe what is clear in video from different folks showing KIA'a ELMAX perform at a level consistent with much cheaper steels. I would really like to see video counter to what has been presented in a way that I can witness and consume...
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Again I ask; in what world is s30v a 'much cheaper steel'?

They cost almost the same when buying blade stock and kai
prices their elmax knives on par with their s30v knives.

S30v blur vs speedform ii
030x vs 0560
0350 vs 0566

Explain how elmax is more than s30v?
 
AF said:
I recall you criticizing the performance of Spyderco's S35VN in the Native5. The company responded by doing more testing as did other Spyderco owners. No one else found a problem with the steel. So that makes me question your result with the 0801.
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Not just the 0801. The 056X as well. And I can't refute his findings. Something weird is going on here.
 
For anyone who think John does this as a personal attack on KAI/Kershaw/ZT, or to inflate his own ego by putting himself at the center of controversy, perhaps you should take a look at his back catalog of videos about Kershaw/ZT products. The man has probably sold more knives for their company than anyone else. For example, his glowing, gushing review of the Kershaw Tilt is probably one of the most watched knife videos on YouTube; at 170,000 views, that's a massive amount of positive exposure for the company and a testament to their manufacturing skills. Furthermore, the informal cut test of said Tilt brought praise for the Vanax 35 and its heat treatment. I also remember quite a positive review for the 560, and also John was one of the first people to expose most knife enthusiasts to what taking the torsion bar out of the 0350 or Blur will do for the knife, making it an extremely smooth manual action.

All in all, those videos have far more views and exposure than the negative ones, but that is all people choose to focus on. I really think John is a boon to the knife community, who has unfortunately been misinterpreted by those with an irrational loyalty to a brand.
 
The problem isn't that you don't like Elmax, its your attitude. You make comments like 90% of you don't hard use a knife like me, and don't know steel like me etc etc. Your attitude is so over inflated like your the only person in the world who knows steel or uses a knife. I'm willing to bet there are soldiers, FF/EMT, LEOs who have used knives harder than you. Craftsman who know steel better than you. Just enthusiasts who know more than you, and these people don't belittle others in this hobby. I don't think your attitude is smart for someone who is wanting to start selling their own knives. People don't like buying from unpleasant people. I think you would agree after your little CRK boycot.
 
Misanthropia said:
For anyone who think John does this as a personal attack on KAI/Kershaw/ZT, or to inflate his own ego by putting himself at the center of controversy, perhaps you should take a look at his back catalog of videos about Kershaw/ZT products. The man has probably sold more knives for their company than anyone else. For example, his glowing, gushing review of the Kershaw Tilt is probably one of the most watched knife videos on YouTube; at 170,000 views, that's a massive amount of positive exposure for the company and a testament to their manufacturing skills. Furthermore, the informal cut test of said Tilt brought praise for the Vanax 35 and its heat treatment. I also remember quite a positive review for the 560, and also John was one of the first people to expose most knife enthusiasts to what taking the torsion bar out of the 0350 or Blur will do for the knife, making it an extremely smooth manual action.
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Not true on all counts.

The YouTube personality who likely has sold more Kai knives than anyone is nutnfancy, and you'd be hard pressed to refute that.

Moreover, if you think the Tilt actually needed any video at all to completely sell out, you're deluding yourself.

I don't care either way about how this thread goes about ELMAX or John's videos, but you should think a bit more before making ridiculous claims like that.
 
Internet Celebs :jerk it: ,Knife Testoligests :stupid: ,Haters :boxing: ,FanBoys :love-struck: ,Professional Internet Snappy Come Backers :victorious: ,Lions,Tigers,and Bears, Oh My !! :eek:

Keep'em comming fellas, I'm on my way to Wally World for more popcorn & Beer. This is Entertainment !!
 
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TEFL0N_D0N_81 said:
I learned a lot from your vids and posts. You contribute more than you realize.
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Personally one of my favorite authors is the Psalmist, and he gets pretty worked up as his neighbors are mugging him. Inspired invective has its place. My Elmax blade doesn't seem to hold an edge terribly well, but I don't much care. Pretty easy to resharpen and it was way less money than an XM. Some time I'd like to see a thoroughgoing review of Elmax after it has a longer track record. Bohler makes some pretty good knife steels so it can't be that bad.
 
sticktodrum said:
Not true on all counts.

The YouTube personality who likely has sold more Kai knives than anyone is nutnfancy, and you'd be hard pressed to refute that.

Moreover, if you think the Tilt actually needed any video at all to completely sell out, you're deluding yourself.

I don't care either way about how this thread goes about ELMAX or John's videos, but you should think a bit more before making ridiculous claims like that.
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I assume you mean that the statements are true on some counts? Because if you mean they're not true on any counts I'd say you're missing the forest for the trees. As for whether the Tilt needed videos, I'd say that any modern product needs that kind of help and buzz. Saying it wasn't needed is like saying that there'd have been the same buzz without the video reviews, and I just don't believe it. Of course you're right about Nutnfancy, you old TNPer you.
 
freewheeling said:
Personally one of my favorite authors is the Psalmist, and he gets pretty worked up as his neighbors are mugging him. Inspired invective has its place. My Elmax blade doesn't seem to hold an edge terribly well, but I don't much care. Pretty easy to resharpen and it was way less money than an XM. Some time I'd like to see a thoroughgoing review of Elmax after it has a longer track record. Bohler makes some pretty good knife steels so it can't be that bad.
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Lionsteel's ELMAX (Bohler) has had its share of performance problems as well in its Ti-Spine knives. Either ELMAX ain't that great, or losing its temper in the process.
 
freewheeling said:
I assume you mean that the statements are true on some counts?
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I was only paying attention to the important ones.


freewheeling said:
As for whether the Tilt needed videos, I'd say that any modern product needs that kind of help and buzz. Saying it wasn't needed is like saying that there'd have been the same buzz without the video reviews, and I just don't believe it.
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Not the Tilt, no. Buzz was not required at all. With a DLC run of just over 200 pieces and a subsequent stonewashed run of just over 600, no buzz was required to get Kershaw's Tilt off the shelves.

Believe what you want, it doesn't change that it didn't need any post-release buzz at all.


freewheeling said:
Of course you're right about Nutnfancy, you old TNPer you.
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Oh absolutely dude, just keepin it real. *whiplash*
 
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