Anybody else-sebenza dead horse.

[Benchmade edges]

Blue Man said:
Why to they do this?
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Ask them, they have a forum. It probably has to do with them being more "tactical" vs Spyderco being more utility based.

-Cliff
 
I like the Sebenza. Had two but traded one away because I'm just not that into manual folders. One thing I noticed was not mentioned in this thread is that the Sebenza is sort of an 'Icon' in the knife world. Why is this? I think it's because the design/manufacture and availability of the Seb predates almost everything thats out now. The Seb came into a world that had yet to see Benchmade, Microtech, Strider, tactical knives, pocket clips on everything, thumbstuds or wide availability of frame/linerlocks. Titanium? Who had ever heard of that for a pocketknife? In that old world the Seb stood way up on a mountain top, by itself, looking down at the 'classic' belt folders of the day by Buck, Case, Schrade and maybe Spyderco. The only other folders available then were the classic pocket knives that had been around for 100 + years. The Seb deserves its spot in the sun because it made available and acceptable a lot of the things that other makers use today as a matter of course.
 
I've seen a few sebs now and they are pretty impressive. They also use some of the absolute highest quality materials.

Despite this, I just cannot reason with those price tags. It's not even a matter of "I don't have the money," it's just that I honestly feel they're not worth it.

I guess where the Sebenze fails to inspire me most is the aesthetics. Don't get me wrong here, this is my preference, I understand that people like things different than I do (visually). It just looks so simple and plain. And I'm not a big fan of designs on my knives. I vastly prefer the looks of a 30 dollar Kershaw.

I'm also not a fan of the integral lock. That's not to say I don't like it, because I do (more than a lockback anyway), but I want what I consider to be a high end locking mechanism on a vastttllyyyy expensive knife. I can get an axis lock on a 50 dollar benchmade.

But I still "get it," I think. Something new, something exotic, something you don't see every day. I understand. I can even relate. Right now though, I'll focus on Benchmade.
 
This weekend I'm going to a festival that has vendors that sell mostly handmade goods. Now everything there is way more expensive than Walmart, but that's the standard that we've come to expect. Goods, made cheaply overseas. It's a fact of life. If you want to make sure that your knife was handmade by a quality craftsman, with quality parts, then you get a Seb.
.
Also, Dijos, as far as ease of opening and closeing. This doesn't bother me. I often feel that a knife is more secure because it is more difficult to open or close.
 
KimberComp said:
Based on the positives I read about the Chris Reeve Sebenza, I ordered a large one today. Should be in next week! I have carried many knives (EDI, Spyderco, Benchmade, Microtech, and countless others). I carry what I like and I'm not brand loyal but I will say I've owned many Spyderco Knives. Just got in a Lone Wolf T2 and a Emerson CQC-8.

I'm new here and the only way you get your feet wet is asking questions. You can search and still not have questions answered or at least not answered to your satisfaction. I thought that was the purpose of forums like these! New people ask questions! It seems often enough on many forums there is always someone posting some smart A** response to a question they may have seen many times before. It would certainly be nice to step back in time to check out the posts and question they asked when they first started participating on a particular site.
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My first post on this board a month or so ago was admitting my ignorance and asking what made my new Sebenza a great knife. There were plenty of "Sebenza good/Sebenza bad" posts in the thread, but there were also some very informative posts on differentiating a well made from a poorly made knife. I learned a lot from that thread that further fueled my interest in knives. Thank you all for sharing!

My post wasn't about the Sebenza per se, that was just an example, but about how to tell a quality knife. I think this thread is the along the same lines. Replace the word "Sebenza" in the original post with any other quality knife brand/model and you still have an interesting topic for discussion.
 
Walking Man said:
If you want to make sure that your knife was handmade by a quality craftsman, with quality parts, then you get a Seb.
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The blades are ground by hand, and sharpened by hand (and fitted by hand??), but that's still very, very different from being handmade.

I found a quote by Chris on the internet:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_143_23/ai_56221735
I asked Reeve whether the knives he manufactures today are as good as the handmade ones he produced as a custom knifemaker. Without hesitation, he replied, "The knives I make today are 100 percent better! The manufacturing process is much more consistent and cuts down on human error. There is no way a human being could meet the demands we place on our knives today."
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Better than handmade, maybe....but not handmade.
 
I rarely add to these posts, but FWIW, I bought a small decorated Sebenza a little over a year ago. I don't use knives very hard, and when I do, I usually use my SAK :rolleyes: I certainly don't compare with most people here as far as usage goes.

With that being said, the Sebenza was my 4th folder in 4 years (and yes, it's all your fault :D ). While I don't have that much experience, I have handled quite a few knives over the years (I sharpen other people's knives as a sideline). So far, nothing has come close to the Sebenza in my opinion. I own 3 great "other" knives, but the Sebenza is still the one for me.

I haven't bought another folder since, and honestly, I don't feel the need anymore...

I feel the Sebenza is a really special knife. Is it worth the price? Probably not. I had the choice between buying 1 Sebenza or 1 Paramilitary + 1 921 Switchback and keeping the change. I decided on the Sebenza and I'm quite happy.

Guy
 
I had an original Sebenza, and it was a nice knife. I traded it off for a Strider, that I actually DO use. Yes, it IS a nice knife!! And frankly, I would LOVE to have one that has that night sky on it. But, there are other knives that I prefer over a Sebbie. My personal feelings about it.
 
Interesting that these threads tend to bring about posts from all that don't like these kind of threads... It's as if they see the title line on the thread list and now they -must- -click- -on- -it- and either feed the troll, destroy the newbie for not searching first, or admonish someone for wanting to talk about something they don't want to talk about again.

I for one appreciate the traffic and like that the forum is used. The guy was completely clear about what he wanted to talk about in the title of his thread. If you don't want to talk about it don't click on it and reply.

I'm posting this because negative posters get in my way of seeing a cogent train of thought between participants. This is how it goes:

1 I like the Sebbie because________.
2 I don't like it because_________.
3 This is a dead horse.
4 I like the Sebbie because______.
5 Can't you use the search function.

Whatever...I think the Sebenza is great. Much as someone likes talking about and comparing their car to another car I enjoy the discussion. And I don't cringe when I see the same discussion over and over again. I make a decision to either read it or walk on by.

Fantastic design is timeless, it has become a standard in much the same way as the Buck 110, Spydie Delica, Strider SNG and Benchmade 710 have (not forgetting all the slipjoints out there-Case, Schrade, Queen et al). Anyone who is into knives should consider the standards and examine them to garner a better appreciation for the hobby. Handling and discussing an example lets you know pretty quickly if that particular style suits you, and makes you question why others see it as beneficial so you can come to a better understanding about the tool it is.

Please resist the temptation and don't waste your time destroying threads that bother you simply because they're there.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
Ourvail said:
Interesting that these threads tend to bring about posts from all that don't like these kind of threads... It's as if they see the title line on the thread list and now they -must- -click- -on- -it- and either feed the troll, destroy the newbie for not searching first, or admonish someone for wanting to talk about something they don't want to talk about again.

I for one appreciate the traffic and like that the forum is used. The guy was completely clear about what he wanted to talk about in the title of his thread. If you don't want to talk about it don't click on it and reply.

I'm posting this because negative posters get in my way of seeing a cogent train of thought between participants. This is how it goes:

1 I like the Sebbie because________.
2 I don't like it because_________.
3 This is a dead horse.
4 I like the Sebbie because______.
5 Can't you use the search function.

Whatever...I think the Sebenza is great. Much as someone likes talking about and comparing their car to another car I enjoy the discussion. And I don't cringe when I see the same discussion over and over again. I make a decision to either read it or walk on by.

Fantastic design is timeless, it has become a standard in much the same way as the Buck 110, Spydie Delica, Strider SNG and Benchmade 710 have (not forgetting all the slipjoints out there-Case, Schrade, Queen et al). Anyone who is into knives should consider the standards and examine them to garner a better appreciation for the hobby. Handling and discussing an example lets you know pretty quickly if that particular style suits you, and makes you question why others see it as beneficial so you can come to a better understanding about the tool it is.

Please resist the temptation and don't waste your time destroying threads that bother you simply because they're there.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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It's like being really tall and having every other person you meet say, "How's the weather up there?" No harm is meant by the comment, but after a while you start thinking "If one more person asks that I'm going to punch them in the nose." It's another aspect of the old saw "familiarity breeds contempt."
 
I've handled a large number of Sebenza's. All of them were of excellent Quality. Having said that, they just didn't trip my trigger. Are they worth the money? I think that beyond a certain minimum level of materials and fit and finish, Worth is so subjective that it isn't really quantifiable. If the guy with the cash thinks the knife (or whatever) is worth the money, then it is. If he doesn't, then it isn't.
Another $.o2
 
Let's take away the personal prefrences for a moment and look at the actual market for Sebenzas.

As far as the price, it seems to me that the market and available inventory of them says that they are priced about right.;) They sell well at the prices and there is a constant backlog of orders over the years.

You don't see a bunch sitting in dealer inventory languishing nor is there much inventory available at CRK. (and that has been the fact for years and dealers have a hard time replinishing immediately if they run out without making standing orders.)

Individuals may like other knives and yes any knife can be great for one person and not so good for another, but the too high of price argument is very weak when you look at the market for Sebenzas.

I have not seen a time when supply exceeded demand in fact the demand has exceeded the supply for many years and that is a fact that does not seem to be recognized when the price is considered too high.
 
I think it's an excellent point that the sebenza was and is an icon. Even if it isn't right for everyone, it still remains an icon.

I agree with Bastid that ultimately the market decides if a sebenza is worth the money. I will say that prices for used sebenzas has fallen in the last few years. Perhaps that's because there are more market choices, or that the market for sebenzas is starting to saturate or both.
 
Obviously each individual must make up their own mind as to whether the Sebenza is worth it selling price. As far as the market is concerned, there is no doubt that the Sebenza is considered in the right price range by enough people to keep it constantly sold out.

It is interesting to go to a knife store and see well made $50.00 knives that sit in the display case for months while the Sebenzas are gone within a few days of arrival.

The Sebenza is no the knife for me, but you will never catch me saying that it is over priced.
 
Bastid said:
...but the too high of price argument is very weak when you look at the market for Sebenzas.
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By similar logic you can easily defend knockoffs as the market for them is also very high.

When people make statements like the Sebenza is overpriced, they don't mean Reeve would make more money if he lowered the price.

They usually mean among other things, it is a performance / cost issue and popularity is irrelevant.

-Cliff
 
Cliff,

My logic is quite sound concerning the price of the Sebenza.

As far as your extension of that logic. It is based on no logic.

The demand for Sebenza is greater than the supply this is basic economics.

With your logic you are saying the demand for cheap knockoffs is also greater thean the supply. On what facts are you basing this.

I can walk into any convience store in my area and see cartons of these knives selling for under 10 bucks. The supply is greater than the demand.

I suggest you examine economics and logic. You are applying both incorrectly.
 
...
My point is that simple and logical thought would dictate that the Sebenza is priced right according to any business rules you wish to apply (That are actually logical and based on fact.)
 
There's probably no arguing that since it sells, it must be priced right.

I imagine though one could agree with that then also make the following statement. It's "Status Symbol" priced, that is priced higher then the performance/features would normally indicate. Those high prices are supported the the hype or sebenza cult.

I think that's what Cliff is saying. (And brownshoe if he was here)
 
The market value of the product seems clearly established.

That's one thing that's nice about "market value" with any product that sells in more than trivial numbers. Put it on the market. Whatever price it brings establishes its market value - at that point in time. Some items, of course, hold such "value" over time; others do not.

Intrinsic value is a good concept, but a lot harder to establish. What goes into intrinsic value? Only functionality or "beauty" as well? Does a Scagle have a higher intrinsic value than a Loveless or Fisk of the same size? Has a Camillus Mk. II from WWII lost intrinsic value in light of more "modern" products -- even as it's "market value" has risen? Lots of room for opinions --and passion.
 
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