Are Spyder Holes Liabilities?

[WadeWilson]

Mine was designed in 2008. A mockup was made in 2009 and two prototypes were made in 2010. Combative Edge had one of them since 2013. I had not seen the Liong Mah design or the Rizers until this thread. I think the Rizer looks like a great knife and its about a hundred bucks less than you can find my design for. It is made in China which I'm sure makes it cheaper to produce.

I sold my design to Combative Edge. I have a few, but I wasn't trying to sell them here. I can see how someone could reach that conclusion and, again, I do apologize for not thinking it through. To the paid members who sell on here, I ask your forgiveness. I was not trying to take money out of your pockets or the forum owners.

I have Spydercos that I like a lot and have owned at least a couple at anytime since 1994. I did not think I phrased my question in an offensive or derogatory manner and I was not attempting to incite or win an arguement. I was hoping to learn by having people share personal experience or additional insights that I hadn't been privy to. This is the biggest knife forum for a reason.

I bought a Dragonfly just before Christmas and got to thinking about the discussion I had with Ken. Spyderco has an excellent product. Ken never said otherwise. I have seen them adding flippers on some models and wondered why they kept the Spyderhole and if it was because that is how they are quickly recognized. I see that a lot of folks here are really fond of the Spyderhole and for them it is the fastest and easiest to open.

Perhaps I should have kept my inquiry more generic without specifying any particular makers or companies (or myself). I am not well known here and did not know the thread would get controversial or involve personal attacks. I will leave my posts as they were written and I'll accept responsibility for them all.

I would be happy to have private discussions with anyone about this. I think anything I say here will only derail the thread more.

If we can we agree to let this go, I'd appreciate it.

Admins please lock thread.

Well according to Amazon, they started selling the CRKT Eraser in 2011. That's all I'm gonna say about it. Good luck, dude.

 

[craytab]

I rarely post here but feel it necessary at this time to hopefully clear some things up. I have absolutely nothing but love and mad respect for Sal, Gail and Eric Glesser as well as the whole Spyderco team. I have been friends with them for over 25 years. Sal mentored me as a young fledgling knife maker back in the day and I doubt I could ever repay his kindness and generosity to me.
I also have love and respect for Rock. He is a good dude and I have known him for a dozen or more years. He is not the type of guy to cause a ruckus but rather a guy not afraid of asking a question.
Now, I don't recall having this discussion with Rock,nor the context of the conversation. I don't confirm nor deny it though as I have had a zillion discussions with a zillion people over the years and am old. I forget what I had for breakfast most of the time.
The thing that gets me though,is how many of you piled on him and conducted yourselves like a bunch of squabbling children. Automatically assuming the worst intentions all the while while hiding under an alias. This type of conduct is not constructive and not professional. Nothing but negativity can result.
You guys are better than this. You would scold your kids for acting the same.
We are all knife lovers and are more alike than different. Lets stop the mean spirited bullshit and get back to serious discussions about a product and craft we love. No one should be afraid to ask a question here if genuine. And no one should spit venom from the keyboard just because they can.

He asked a question, sure. The title of the thread asks one question. The Original Post asks a different question. He stated his opinion and asked ours. He did not like the answers he got. He then used your name as evidence to throw a well respected company under the buss.

It looks like a trademarked liability to me now.

Then, whether inadvertently or not he promoted a design of his own to counter the spyderhole. After the negative response he got for that and all of this came down upon his head he asks the subject to be dropped and the thread to be locked. You must realize how all this comes across.

 

[Leftytwogunz]

Thanks, Ken. You are one of my favorite stand up guys.

Well then, its a shame that you put him in the middle between you and Spyderco.

...
I have Spydercos that I like a lot and have owned at least a couple at anytime since 1994. I did not think I phrased my question in an offensive or derogatory manner and I was not attempting to incite or win an arguement. I was hoping to learn by having people share personal experience or additional insights that I hadn't been privy to. ...

If we can we agree to let this go, I'd appreciate it.

Admins please lock thread.

You were slinging out images of broken Spydercos for some reason.

Only paid membership can lock a thread. I tried before, didn't work.

Hey, he bought a membership now!

 

[bodog]

Well then, its a shame that you put him in the middle between you and Spyderco.



You were slinging out images of broken Spydercos for some reason.




Hey, he bought a membership now!

Whatever the case may be, KO said he didn't remember saying something like that. That's cool. What's also conspicuous is that KO did not say it again to back up Rock. So either Rock took something KO said out of context to peddle his own design or KO doesn't believe in Rock enough to say that he does, in fact, feel that way.

Either way, KO is right about all the dog piling that happens here, BUTTT....the OP of this thread seems like he deserves it in this case.

Using one guy's good name to smear another good guy's product in order to advertise his own design. I'm a little surprised KO actually defended him at all.

 

[CSTLandscapes]

doors weaken walls too but unless we all wanna start going at it kool aid man style, i think they're worth it.

oooooooooo yeahhh!!!!

 

[sparky2016]

Pie holes are clearly a much bigger liability.

 

[Sosa]

You said a mouthful.

 

[Sal Glesser]

Hi Rock, Hi Ken,

Certainly is a long thread. Yes, I read it all.

First I would like to thank those that came to Spyderco's defense. Appreciate.

No I don't think that the SpyderHole is a liability. We've been making them for 35 years. We have millions of them in the field, many used by professionals (military, law enforcement, fire fighters, emergency personnel, etc.). They've been used to save many lives, often in dangerous situations. We get regular "thank you's" from our customers every day for just making them.

I don't think it's obsolete. I think it is the most effective and reliable way to open a folding knife with one hand. Of course I might be biased We make knives with hole openers, flippers, Emerson openers, auto openers, Janisong openers, one hand slip-joints, etc. I still carry and prefer the SpyderHole.

I did throw one shipment of knives away (1200 pieces) because our maker made a mistake in construction, I broke the blade, it didn't meet our standards. We boxed them up, filled the box with concrete and took them to the dump. We pride ourselves in making safe reliable high performance cutting tools. Perhaps you should have done some of your homework on our company and our products?

I'm not a metallurgist, but metallurgists that work for foundries have us test blade steels for them. We let them know if it's any good or make recommendations. I'm not an engineer, but I have engineers working for me. I set the standards.

Frankly I thought your questions was somewhat naive. Do you think all of those holes in the frame of a Ferrari weakens the frame? Do you think those holes in the bulkheads of the wings of a 787 weakens the wing?

We have a dedicated breaking machine, (computerized with digital readouts and micro photography of the breaks), CATRA machine, a host of testing equipment. We're considered to be one of the top 10 knife manufacturers in the world. We're distributing to over 60 countries. It seems like you think we don't know what we're doing?

Sorry your question promoting so much controversy. Perhaps it was the way you worded it? I know that if I had to cut my way out of trouble, I would feel more confident using one of my knives than any others.

sal

 

[bodog]

.......

 

[Bill1170]

That settles things. Thumbs up to Sal and Ken for weighing in.

 

[rcb2000]

Very cool seeing you here Sir, thank you for all you've done for the knife community.
Cheers!

 

[fetzer85]

Damn Sal...well said!!!

 

[RockCowles]

Thank you for your courteous and informed response, Sal. I in no way intended to insult you, your company, or your product. I wondered if I missed something about the hole. I could have chosen my words better, but didn't realize the topic would be so inflammatory. Hopefully hindsight will be 20/20. I am a Spyderco fan. I depended on them as a police officer and soldier and still EDC an Endura 4 Wave often. Thanks to you and the other folks who shared their faith in the product and helped alliviate any doubts.

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

Nice to hear from Ken & Sal.

On kicking door, I'm wondering how effective it'll be if the door opens towards me. I'd have to break the full frame or the door slab. (?)
Perhaps it is to be discussed in new thread over Prac Tac if anyone interested.

I'm still carrying my Spydies :thumbup:

To OP, now that you're a paying member, you can try locking the thread.

 

[craytab]

This is why BFC is such a great place. The owner of a great company comes on here to defend his excellent product.

I could have chosen my words better, but didn't realize the topic would be so inflammatory.

It wasn't just words. You posted pictures of failed spydercos, most of which had nothing to do with the hole. Completely inaccurate to the "question" you posed. You also posted pictures of your own design which you think is better. You set up a pissing match for all of us to take part in including throwing one designer under the buss and another to defend his excellent company and innovative designs. To what end? Hopefully a lesson was learned here.

 

[cbrstar]

I'm pretty new to the knife world, so I'm still learning. But I have to say this thread really opened my eyes!

For my first new knife purchase since being a teenager. I picked a CKRT over the Spyderco the clerk was strongly trying to suggest. I simply didn't really understand it, and to be honest I thought the overall shape was a little too weird. And deep down I wanted something like my SAK but larger and stronger. (I'm a boxy BMW and Volvo kinda guy lol)

Over the last few months of being on BF, I started to realize what a good value Spyderco's can be with their features, and how well they are finished. But I was still a bit hung up on the shape, and the fact I'd grown to like my thumb stud/flipper.

But after reading this post and seeing just how adamant the fans are. I started to do some actual research as it interested me. I learned more about the brilliant locking mechanism, about fakes, the history, how functional the form is etc... And I have to say I'm no longer on the fence, I'm soon going to pick myself one up, to "treat" myself.

 

[Anaries]

The thing that gets me though,is how many of you piled on him and conducted yourselves like a bunch of squabbling children. Automatically assuming the worst intentions all the while while hiding under an alias. This type of conduct is not constructive and not professional. Nothing but negativity can result.
You guys are better than this. You would scold your kids for acting the same.
We are all knife lovers and are more alike than different. Lets stop the mean spirited bullshit and get back to serious discussions about a product and craft we love. No one should be afraid to ask a question here if genuine. And no one should spit venom from the keyboard just because they can.

Drama sucks. This should be about knives, which we all love.

That settles things. Thumbs up to Sal and Ken for weighing in.

:thumbup:

 

[Quiet]

Hi Rock, Hi Ken,

Certainly is a long thread. Yes, I read it all.

First I would like to thank those that came to Spyderco's defense. Appreciate.

No I don't think that the SpyderHole is a liability. We've been making them for 35 years. We have millions of them in the field, many used by professionals (military, law enforcement, fire fighters, emergency personnel, etc.). They've been used to save many lives, often in dangerous situations. We get regular "thank you's" from our customers every day for just making them.

I don't think it's obsolete. I think it is the most effective and reliable way to open a folding knife with one hand. Of course I might be biased We make knives with hole openers, flippers, Emerson openers, auto openers, Janisong openers, one hand slip-joints, etc. I still carry and prefer the SpyderHole.

I did throw one shipment of knives away (1200 pieces) because our maker made a mistake in construction, I broke the blade, it didn't meet our standards. We boxed them up, filled the box with concrete and took them to the dump. We pride ourselves in making safe reliable high performance cutting tools. Perhaps you should have done some of your homework on our company and our products?

I'm not a metallurgist, but metallurgists that work for foundries have us test blade steels for them. We let them know if it's any good or make recommendations. I'm not an engineer, but I have engineers working for me. I set the standards.

Frankly I thought your questions was somewhat naive. Do you think all of those holes in the frame of a Ferrari weakens the frame? Do you think those holes in the bulkheads of the wings of a 787 weakens the wing?

We have a dedicated breaking machine, (computerized with digital readouts and micro photography of the breaks), CATRA machine, a host of testing equipment. We're considered to be one of the top 10 knife manufacturers in the world. We're distributing to over 60 countries. It seems like you think we don't know what we're doing?

Sorry your question promoting so much controversy. Perhaps it was the way you worded it? I know that if I had to cut my way out of trouble, I would feel more confident using one of my knives than any others.

sal

Sal, thank you for posting and setting this record straight, hopefully Rock's assertion has been answered definitively. I don't think any of the regulars feel that the Spyderhole weakens the blade. Entirely too many of us have used Spyderco knives hard without a single issue for that to be the case. Glad this has been settled. :thumbup:

I also found it interesting that Ken didn't back Rock's "what he said".

 

[Helleri]

Doesn't have to be a hole. I'd imagine an inset could work just as well (something like this):

Could even put the spider logo in the bottom of the inset. Then it would be less likely to wear off over time. It would also be more of a spydey hole because the spider would be in the hole.

 

[Fanglekai]

Doesn't have to be a hole. I'd imagine an inset could work just as well (something like this):

Could even put the spider logo in the bottom of the inset. Then it would be less likely to wear off over time. It would also be more of a spydey hole because the spider would be in it.

If they did it that way it'd be set up for right-hand only and all of us lefties would be out of luck. No thanks. There's nothing wrong with the Spyderhole as it is.