Are Spyderco Prices becoming unreachable?

Yep, only been into Spyderco for less than a year. Mostly because most models I was interested in were already at the peak of what I can afford. (I'm disabled and on a fixed income) Now that the prices have gone up they are just out of my price range.

Oh well, at least I was able to get a few.
 
I wouldn't say unreachable, but perhaps discouraging for us knife enthusiasts. By that I mean that the average knife owner, isn't spending even $100 on a pocket knife.

For example in 2023, there's no way I'm paying $150+ for a S30/35 bladed knife. It's not that I think S30/35 is bad steel, or can't afford it, it's simply a cost/benefit equation. Why would I want to when there are better steel options for less $? Steel is what makes a knife useful, it's the function. I'd even argue that for 90% of knife owners ergonomics on a folder isn't as big of a deal. Most are not using them 100-200 times for hours a day where ergos come into play that much, but how well it cuts and holds an edge matters every time you use it.

Shaman, Native Chief, Kapara.......all great knives, but I won't touch the S30v versions at $200+ prices, I'd only consider sprint/exclusives with better steel and usually with only minor price increases. Benchmade is the same, well worse really. Some nice options, but again not paying $250+ for S30v

The market has changed, there's SO many new knife companies now doing D2/S30/S35 knives for even under $100 that are really good in fit/finish that I can't see paying 2x the price for the same blade steel. The fact you can regularly get D2 folders now for under $50 is pretty amazing.

I've said this before, Spyderco/Benchmade etc. are really lucky that Kershaw has not decided to go after the $100-200 market. They have by far the best volume of interesting designs/collabs, but only cheap steel options for most models. If they started doing a lot more S30v/35v "sprint" versions at the $100-150 price range they would take a HUGE share of Spyderco/Benchmade market, and they'd still be priced under the premium steel ZT offerings. Over black friday you could get a G10, 20cv, ZT 0357 for under $125.
 
Once in a while, Spyderco produces a knife that gets my attention. Then I look at the price and set it back down. To be fair, their prices are in line with other knife companies and I'm a skin flint. Consequently, I just don't buy many knives, anymore.
 
Saw in a shot show video where Eric mentioned current Seki model prices aren't planned to go up this year. With the current inflation going on I would say that can only correlate to a better value than the models were last year.
 
Just picked a blem stainless handled Endura for a very good price--- VG10 combo blade.

When I got it in my hands, it was absolutely pristine.
 
ToddM said:
I wouldn't say unreachable, but perhaps discouraging for us knife enthusiasts. By that I mean that the average knife owner, isn't spending even $100 on a pocket knife.

For example in 2023, there's no way I'm paying $150+ for a S30/35 bladed knife. It's not that I think S30/35 is bad steel, or can't afford it, it's simply a cost/benefit equation. Why would I want to when there are better steel options for less $? Steel is what makes a knife useful, it's the function. I'd even argue that for 90% of knife owners ergonomics on a folder isn't as big of a deal. Most are not using them 100-200 times for hours a day where ergos come into play that much, but how well it cuts and holds an edge matters every time you use it.

Shaman, Native Chief, Kapara.......all great knives, but I won't touch the S30v versions at $200+ prices, I'd only consider sprint/exclusives with better steel and usually with only minor price increases. Benchmade is the same, well worse really. Some nice options, but again not paying $250+ for S30v

The market has changed, there's SO many new knife companies now doing D2/S30/S35 knives for even under $100 that are really good in fit/finish that I can't see paying 2x the price for the same blade steel. The fact you can regularly get D2 folders now for under $50 is pretty amazing.

I've said this before, Spyderco/Benchmade etc. are really lucky that Kershaw has not decided to go after the $100-200 market. They have by far the best volume of interesting designs/collabs, but only cheap steel options for most models. If they started doing a lot more S30v/35v "sprint" versions at the $100-150 price range they would take a HUGE share of Spyderco/Benchmade market, and they'd still be priced under the premium steel ZT offerings. Over black friday you could get a G10, 20cv, ZT 0357 for under $125.
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This is the Spyderco subforum. We like Spydercos.

Functionally VG10, S35, etc. are all good steels. I’d buy a Spyderco in 440C over a Kershaw in M390 if I liked the Spyderco design more. A knife is more than steel and price. It’s mostly design and execution which always trumps name and steel. I just bought my first Kershaw, a ZT0055 in S35, due to the GTC design and ZT execution. Gee I paid more than $200 for S35 :)

By the way, D2 is not S30 or S35, especially D2 at RC 58, which is where your <$50 D2 is. Not bad steel, I have a Steel Will that‘s D2, good knife…not a Spyderco though… D2 is not even a stainless steel. Steel snobs miss out on a lot of great knives, such as a Douk Douk :)
 
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I care more about how the knife actually cuts and holds it's edge, cause it's a knife, but i'm very much a function over form person. So for me there's no way I'm taking anyone's 440c knife over a M390 knife unless the designs are so far apart they are no longer functional. Some care about form, some about function. Ergonomics matters of course but steel matters more.

Average steel on a great handle/folder design, is like putting 80mph speed rated tires on a z06 corvette. If it can't functionally go fast, then it's only good for it's looks.

Of course D2 isn't S30, but the fact you can easily obtain many D2 knives in 2023 under $50 and now s30/35 knives under $100, means you better really love the design or brand to pay $250 for one. Sure that happens, there are some designs I think are so good I'll pay a bit more for one, but there's so many great companies making s30/35 knives and 20cv etc. knives now for under $200, it's rare I'll pay $250 for anything with average blade steel.

I've said the same thing about CRK for years when it was S30/35 only. Probably one of the best if not the best built, vault like lockups, smooth fluid blade deploy knives I've handled over many many mid-techs that didn't live up to the price hype in the last 20 years. I'll still carry a 20cv, M390, etc. PM2 over one every day, because it CUTS better. Some folks don't care about how well a knife cuts or how long it holds an edge, some folks love to touchup/sharpen knives more often. Knives for many have become watches, they are mostly making a fashion statement with them and they rarely ever see significant long term daily use.
 
Sal,

I'm certainly not going to argue with you, you've forgot more about steel than I'll ever know! That said, I agree there's two areas that are either very hard to quantify, and or people don't take into account as consumers.

The first, which is very hard to quantify is heat treat, and quality of steel. I mean at the end of the day consumers have no way to ensure the steel stamped on the blade is really what's in the blade. So you have to trust the manufacturer is not lying to you, and I'm sure like most things you can have good or bad steel of the same type depending on manufacturing quality control/standards etc. A more established manufacturer is probably more trustworthy when it comes to believing the steel stamped on the blade is what it really is, and that it's of good quality because they are probably sourcing for a well established vendor etc.. Heat treat falls into this as well, even more mysterious, we've seen scientific testing that shows there can be significant variation even within the same knife/steel from even big names in the cutting performance, and some list up to a 4 point hardness variation in their specs. Now are we seeing 35vn perform like s90v and then 440c of course not, but not all s35 blades sharpened and from the same maker/model test out the same. So even in a single maker's model there's variation. Then you have the rumors.....that coated blades tend to not perform as well because the heat curing the coating can impact the heat treat. No idea if it's true, but depending on the coating/curing temp etc. I could see it and it certainly matters on the coating type, and steel type too. Then you have edges being burned because manufacturers are sharpening them as fast as possible with power grinders, so edges will not perform well for at least a couple sharpening to get past that burnt steel (ala the ZT Elmax fiasco from years ago). We can go even further and get into hardness, really soft s90v might perform worse than ideally heat treated s35, and that also depends on what you are cutting when it comes to edge holding -vs- brittle edge. I'm sure some of this I'm exaggerating and I'm just grabbing steels out of the air. If I remember right in some of the more scientific cutting tests a steel like s90v can lose 10% of it's edge holding performance with just a 2 point hardness drop. So I'd imagine in some cases significant hardness differences can be as important as a difference in steel itself and I'd bet almost no one is paying attention to that when shopping for knives. Most just are concerned with the type of steel.

The second is edge geometry, and even further sharpening methods. IMO the vast vast majority of popular folding knives these days are much too thick with too steep of edge angles for the tasks most people do daily with a folding knife. I'd actually say spyderco does a much better job than most of offering blades that are good slicers. Sure some folks are really using their folders hard and they might need a thick blade with steel sharpening angle, but I'd be the average user would be much better served in their cutting tasks with a Native Chief sharpened at 17-18deg than a thick bladed ZT sharpened at 22+ degrees. I can sort of see why manufacturers do it, lots of non-knife enthusiasts abuse their folding knives, and they don't maintain them, so putting a thick blade/edge takes the abuse better, and it dulls slower from that abuse. I can't count the number of folks pocket knives I've borrowed, looked at, and nicer spyderco/benchmade blades that were chipped up, used as screwdrivers, etc. and were very dull. Certainly many more of these than well maintained sharp examples. Sharpening is the same, many folks again would be served better (esp. with some of the super steels that offer good toughness and edge holding) with a much thinner edge geometry, but many sharpener systems, don't allow for it.

The sad part is as consumers 99.9% of us will really never know, because we have no way to test it. Unless someone is going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on knives, putting the same edge on them and testing them. Statistically significant sample size starts at 100 usually, but let's even say it's 10, those 10 have to come from different batches. it's thousands of dollars per knife model if not several thousand.

That said, I'll still put my faith in for example that an S90v Military hardened to 60 will have better edge retention, than a Sebenza with an s30v blade at 58 will. As you get cheaper of course the risk of not getting what you think you are getting increases. Do I think there's a higher risk of a newly popular $50 D2 folder not being as high quality D2 and heat treated as well as say a big established knife company? Absolutely! However, I suspect that say a hogue Magnacut Deka holds an edge significantly better than a s30v Benchmade Bugout, and the Hogue still comes with a 20% lower price tag.
 
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Just in general new knives that I am interested in, regardless of manufacturer, are getting to cost more than I am comfortable spending. To be honest I have more knives than I really will every wear out so I have no problem going on a buying hiatus.
 
Yep that pretty much boils it down, in my experience in several hobby areas even well respected manufacturers will never tell enthusiasts everything they want to know, some because it's proprietary and some because it's simply bad for business and most of them have some skeletons in their closet that the average consumer never knows or remembers and wouldn't like. Take the coated blade rumor, I haven't really dug into it but in a ton the little i have I've never seen a manufacturer make a statement on it. I'd image manufacturers aren't going to want to tell customers that coated blades perform worse than non-coated *if* the rumors of coating curing temps negatively impacting heat treats are true. Not because the manufacturers are evil, but a less trustworthy manufacturer is probably going to be willing to say their "special" coating process doesn't do that, and it may even be true. There's also probably wanting to avoid the misconception consumers might get that all coated blades perform worse than non coated, even if it only applies to some steels and some coatings.

It's like vendors for manufacturing, they all play the same game of telling their customers unrealistic delivery times in my experience, even for big customers like Lockheed, not because they don't know, but because they will lose business if they tell someone they can't deliver steel for 16 weeks when another vendor says 4 weeks, even if they will both take 16 weeks. Custom shops tend to be the same, be it knives, guns, or mountain bikes. In the long range rifle world it's almost a badge of courage how long you waited beyond what the maker told you it would take up front. That's simply motivated because he knows if he tells you honestly it will take 18 months up front, you'll go to the other guy down the road fibbing telling you it will take 3 months.

Your point is well taken though, peace of mind staying with an established well known manufacturers over the shops that pop up overnight without reputations of any duration does have a certain peace of mind.
 
Today I wear a G-Shock GW-M5610 - A timepiece that cost me ~100€ + I carry a Spyderco Endela in VG10 that I got for ~110€:
Both items are very much comparable:

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1. Both do their duty exceptionally well without being flashy.
2. Both needed lots of brains and consideration to develop.
3. Both will last very long if I take care of them.
4. Have an utilarian aspect and a toolish design that's timless (imho)
5. Both have way more expensive siblings.*

I trust both Spyderco and Casio to not have taken advantage of me with these prices.
We live in unfortunately interesting times and due to the volatility and fragility of the market, all prices that can rise will rise.

*More work and higher material- and manufacturing cost will always increase the price of a product -> Especially if the circumstances (market) are not as steady as they should.
 
Compared to their competitors, I think they are doing a great job controlling prices.
 
No. Spyderco is still very accessible to all kinds of wallet sizes.
Like most knife companies, there are options that will be beyond reach for some but that is not new.
Reminds me of an old saying...
Cant handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.
 
Anyone else notice that BHQ just upped the price for some Spydercos? A paramilitary 2 is now $185. Knife Center seems to not have raised their prices though. Hopefully it's just a BHQ thing.
 
If nothing else the used market is still ripe with good deals, in the last couple months....

Small 31 CRK s45 $275
Large 31 CRK s45. $300
PM2 and PM3 green 20cv pair $300
ZT 640 and 450 pair $275
M4 Native Chief $150
BM M4 Freek $150
M4 Shaman jade $160

Now if i could just find a deal on a Smock I'd be set
 
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FlipperFolder said:
Anyone else notice that BHQ just upped the price for some Spydercos? A paramilitary 2 is now $185. Knife Center seems to not have raised their prices though. Hopefully it's just a BHQ thing.
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Nah actually I've noticed it at a few dealers now too. White Mountain Knives, DLT are a couple others I checked. Inflation price hikes are finally here. It was known to be coming but still stings a little seeing it when they were cheaper just a few days or weeks ago. I think the Golden models are hit the hardest, around 10% iirc. I believe the Seki models won't increase. China and Taiwan models look to have a slight increases though.
 
ToddM said:
I care more about how the knife actually cuts and holds it's edge, cause it's a knife, but i'm very much a function over form person. So for me there's no way I'm taking anyone's 440c knife over a M390 knife unless the designs are so far apart they are no longer functional. Some care about form, some about function. Ergonomics matters of course but steel matters more.

Average steel on a great handle/folder design, is like putting 80mph speed rated tires on a z06 corvette. If it can't functionally go fast, then it's only good for it's looks.

Of course D2 isn't S30, but the fact you can easily obtain many D2 knives in 2023 under $50 and now s30/35 knives under $100, means you better really love the design or brand to pay $250 for one. Sure that happens, there are some designs I think are so good I'll pay a bit more for one, but there's so many great companies making s30/35 knives and 20cv etc. knives now for under $200, it's rare I'll pay $250 for anything with average blade steel.

I've said the same thing about CRK for years when it was S30/35 only. Probably one of the best if not the best built, vault like lockups, smooth fluid blade deploy knives I've handled over many many mid-techs that didn't live up to the price hype in the last 20 years. I'll still carry a 20cv, M390, etc. PM2 over one every day, because it CUTS better. Some folks don't care about how well a knife cuts or how long it holds an edge, some folks love to touchup/sharpen knives more often. Knives for many have become watches, they are mostly making a fashion statement with them and they rarely ever see significant long term daily use.
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I use all my knives. I have several in 440c including a Spyderco, Benchmade bali and a custom. Your statement that steel matters more than ergonomics is proof positive you don't use your knive very much or very hard. Knife steel flavor of the month is a marketing ploy to vacuum a $100 more dollars out of your wallet and in some cases retread an old design.
 
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