Are there any premium Chinese steels?

There's The People's Republic of China, ruled by a repressive and unprincipled communist party, and there's Taiwan, a democratic, capitalist state. I believe that many, if not most, "Chinese" blades that come from Taiwan are top quality. I wouldn't buy anything from the PRC if I had a choice.
 
Alberta Ed said:
There's The People's Republic of China, ruled by a repressive and unprincipled communist party, and there's Taiwan, a democratic, capitalist state. I believe that many, if not most, "Chinese" blades that come from Taiwan are top quality. I wouldn't buy anything from the PRC if I had a choice.
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If blades come from Taiwan they are not Chinese.
 
Hackenslash said:
Reate, WE, Bestech and Kizer (among others) are held up as examples of the "good" side of Chinese knife manufacturing. Unfortunately most of the best examples from those companies carry blade steel imported from the US or elsewhere. My experience with steel originating in China is less than stellar; 8Cr13MoV and the rest of the alphabet family are barely adequate in a modern knife. The Chinese "D2" that is currently proliferating seems to be a little on the soft side. I have Chinese D2 on a Kershaw, a couple of CIVIVIs and a Steel Will and none of them act like what I'm used to D2 acting like.

I'm not as hard line as many here, but I definitely hold the opinion that these manufacturers need to "prove" themselves given their shared past in the cloning market.
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WE and Steel Will use real D2, along with proper HT protocols. In fact, WE has better grinds on their Civivi knives than most other knives in D2, so they are likely to perform as well if not better. Steel Will imports K110 for their Chinese models. Benchmade has a better HT protocol for their D2, but at more than twice the price there's more wiggle room in manufacturing.
 
Alberta Ed said:
There's The People's Republic of China, ruled by a repressive and unprincipled communist party, and there's Taiwan, a democratic, capitalist state. I believe that many, if not most, "Chinese" blades that come from Taiwan are top quality. I wouldn't buy anything from the PRC if I had a choice.
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You are certainly free to not buy from China for whatever reasons you want.

But who rules a country how has little to do with the quality of their products.

If "China" saw enough profit in making "super" cutlery steel, they would be doing it. They aren't doing it because they are "unprincipled" (calling them that really makes no sense ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Cardinal_Principles .... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideology_of_the_Communist_Party_of_China), or because Mao Zedong said they cant, or because they don't "have ovens that get hot enough," as claimed earlier.

They aren't doing it because the "big fish" are the computers and smartphones you are using to post here and they are killing that. A couple knife nerds having unsatisfiable steel urges is insignificant.
 
danbot said:
When speaking of an industry, it is normal to collectively refer to another countries manufacturers as "they" and to ours as "we".
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I would challenge that, as I don’t know if I’ve ever seen meaningful collective reference to US knife and steel manufacturers; it’s almost always specific to the company, regarding the models and materials they make.

Realistically, the only collective U.S. statements you’re likely to see are just going to be people discussing buying imported vs. domestic knives, which has everything to do with socio-political stances and nothing to do with research and development.

Collectively referring to Chinese companies is as functionally useless as it is to collectively refer to US companies for anything other than discussions of international trade, government policy, and material availability. The companies are too widely varied for other comparisons to work - one can’t functionally lump Buck and Chris Reeve together just like one can’t lump Ganzo and Reate together.
 
Hackenslash said:
Reate, WE, Bestech and Kizer (among others) are held up as examples of the "good" side of Chinese knife manufacturing. Unfortunately most of the best examples from those companies carry blade steel imported from the US or elsewhere. My experience with steel originating in China is less than stellar; 8Cr13MoV and the rest of the alphabet family are barely adequate in a modern knife. The Chinese "D2" that is currently proliferating seems to be a little on the soft side. I have Chinese D2 on a Kershaw, a couple of CIVIVIs and a Steel Will and none of them act like what I'm used to D2 acting like.

I'm not as hard line as many here, but I definitely hold the opinion that these manufacturers need to "prove" themselves given their shared past in the cloning market.
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The notion that every manufacturer in China needs to “prove themselves” because there has been a persistent cloning market in the region is a sort of ridiculous guilt by association. What would that even entail? Coming up with their own designs? Companies already do that. Companies in the US steal designs too - just look at the Microtech Matrix and the numerous Buck 110 lookalikes. “Proving themselves” really just boils down to being successful, which makes the notion kinda meaningless.

Also, the reason for the imported steel is pretty straightforward and has already been touched on. The quality of the materials and heat treatments are driven by demand - if the general knifebuying public suddenly developed an interest in verified high hardness and alloy quality, then we would see Chinese companies attempting to fill that need once it became reasonable for them to produce their own instead of importing.

The current situation is all due to simple economics, in my opinion. That we’re seeing high-end knives coming out of China at all is arguably due to the success of companies who responded to a demand for higher-quality clones - which inspired some enterprising people to begin using those materials to produce original designs.

It’s kind of amazing that this burgeoning industry has popped up over the last several years, and it’s still in its infancy. Things I cannot predict will unfold over the next several years, and that may include Chinese steel companies producing competitive supersteels. The market isn’t there quite yet, but the successful experimentation we’re seeing thus far could lead to there being sufficient demand for a Chinese powder metallurgy supplier for nearby companies.
 
Comeuppance said:
I would challenge that, as I don’t know if I’ve ever seen meaningful collective reference to US knife and steel manufacturers; it’s almost always specific to the company, regarding the models and materials they make.

Realistically, the only collective U.S. statements you’re likely to see are just going to be people discussing buying imported vs. domestic knives, which has everything to do with socio-political stances and nothing to do with research and development.

Collectively referring to Chinese companies is as functionally useless as it is to collectively refer to US companies for anything other than discussions of international trade, government policy, and material availability. The companies are too widely varied for other comparisons to work - one can’t functionally lump Buck and Chris Reeve together just like one can’t lump Ganzo and Reate together.
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The OP was asking about "premium" knife steels being manufactured in China as compared with the "EU and USA".
To then label "they" talk as xenophobic just comes off as silly and maybe virtue signalling to me.

Still though, screw China. :D
 
China has the technology and manufacturing expertise to make just about anything, including high-quality, advanced knife steels.

The problem is that you don't know what you're getting from China. It could be excellent. It could be awful.

Are you really getting the steel advertised? Who knows. Even one major US knife maker has been caught using a different steel than advertised. And consumer protections are much better in this country.
 
danbot said:
:confused: When did they learn about patents? o_O;)
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Actually, China does in fact protect and enforce foreign patents and intellectual property. Yes China is known for counterfeits. If it is like this with laws, imagine what it would be like without.
 
Dfunk1210 said:
Actually, China does in fact protect and enforce foreign patents and intellectual property. Yes China is known for counterfeits. If it is like this with laws, imagine what it would be like without.
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Yes, they have gotten much better as of the past few years.
 
dkb45 said:
WE and Steel Will use real D2, along with proper HT protocols. In fact, WE has better grinds on their Civivi knives than most other knives in D2, so they are likely to perform as well if not better. Steel Will imports K110 for their Chinese models. Benchmade has a better HT protocol for their D2, but at more than twice the price there's more wiggle room in manufacturing.
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I'm not certain about WE D2, I've never owned a WE with D2. CIVIVI does source their blade steel from a local Chinese supplier. There was a big dust up when they released a version of the Navaja with a Damascus blade and when questioned here, it was confirmed that the steel was sourced overseas. Apparently there's a difference between D2 on WE and D2 on CIVIVI. If what you say about Steel Will is accurate, that's unfortunate. One of the worst performing blades I've handled recently was on a D2 Steel Will Mini Intrigue.

Comeuppance said:
The notion that every manufacturer in China needs to “prove themselves” because there has been a persistent cloning market in the region is a sort of ridiculous guilt by association. What would that even entail? Coming up with their own designs? Companies already do that. Companies in the US steal designs too - just look at the Microtech Matrix and the numerous Buck 110 lookalikes. “Proving themselves” really just boils down to being successful, which makes the notion kinda meaningless.
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I take the position of "prove it" about Chinese knife manufacturers because the modern legitimate Chinese knife industry has evolved from a largely illegitimate industry. That phenomenon isn't replicated in other knife manufacturing centers. Yes, there are the odd cases of cloning or homage in the non-Chinese industry, but they tend to be the exception rather than the rule. Even then, suspected US cloners still catch their share of wrath. Microtech, by your example, will always be out of bounds for certain knife knuts.

This isn't a racist or nationalist issue, this is just a matter of properly reckoning the rather unique origins of the current Chinese knife industry.

"Prove it", by my definition, means to create, develop, innovate, improve, participate, support and avoid the appearance of homage pieces. I apply that requirement to any new player in the market, regardless of point of origin.
 
I have a 12+ year old 9cr18mov fixed blade which has held up really well, despite some abuse. Way back then it was considered an upgrade over 440c (which I think is still true in general).

I still would not call it 'premium', but it's decent... of course it's really just a copy and slight modification from 440b, which is still good enough for Randall knives ; )

(an important improvement is the addition of a tiny bit of vanadium, which is missing from 440b)
 
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