Are there any premium Chinese steels?

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KAEDC said:
I think Chinese steel, suffers from a quality problem 1st and a marketing problem 2nd. The keyissues is right now they have to overcome years being associated with cheap low quality product for knife applications.

They really need to step up smaller high quality specialty production( copying the chemistry is is only the 1st step). Second dump the idiotic alphabet soup monikers and and go to unique easily remember-able (albeit still probably still silly) names, and no China D2 dosn't cut it don't just use the current moniker. Partner with reputable Chinese OEMs( WE, Reate, Bestec, etc) to make 100% Chinese designed/manufactured/sourced blades to ease high quality Chinese made steel to the market.

It will take time but I think it's possible for specialty steel in china to do what Chinese production (using US and EU steels) have proven they can do if they want to.
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Is anyone here old enough to remember when "Made in Japan" meant "junk"? That was a thing once upon a time. They've come a long way. China could do the same.

I live in the budget world but look at what they are doing down here. We've seen a real explosion in quality for the price. Someone already mentioned Civivi. They are probably the best example but they aren't the only example. Move up a notch and look what their parent company is making for a little more. If this trend continues, why wouldn't we see some premium Chinese knife steels down the road?
 
Save your money and get a quality USA made EDC knife. Even if it's the only one you can afford.
 
Hackenslash said:
I'm not certain about WE D2, I've never owned a WE with D2. CIVIVI does source their blade steel from a local Chinese supplier. There was a big dust up when they released a version of the Navaja with a Damascus blade and when questioned here, it was confirmed that the steel was sourced overseas. Apparently there's a difference between D2 on WE and D2 on CIVIVI. If what you say about Steel Will is accurate, that's unfortunate. One of the worst performing blades I've handled recently was on a D2 Steel Will Mini Intrigue.
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That's upsetting to hear, because my Cutjack mini has been a great performer for me, holding a polished edge pretty decently for cheap D2, and right where I expect it to, and all of my Civivi knives in D2 have been great in the performance department, possibly on par with Benchmade D2 but only because of the exceptional grinds they use.

On an unrelated note, I've now sharpened half a dozen TwoSun knives in D2 multiple times (collectively, not repeatedly on every knife), and they've all seemed to be perfectly fine D2. One of them seemed a little soft, but that could have also been from the factory edge angle perfectly matching my guided system setting, so establishing the bevel took virtually no time.

Only 2 Chinese D2 knives have performed outside of expected, the Bastion Braza Bro, which LuvThemKnives tested to be in the mid 50's Rockwell (mine isn't quite soft, but the retention isn't quite expected), and my Ganzo FH31 which is the chippiest steel I've ever used, takes and holds a toothy edge fine, but the refined edge was chipping on sharpening, and cardboard turned it into a saw. Granted, I don't buy anything from garbage cloning companies like Eafengrow or Kubey, and their steels seem to be universally disliked in performance from people who know how D2 acts.
 
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Ha ha ha!!! "Premium Chinese"!!!! Now that is gold!!! Yes, they do make a lot of structural steel. Here in Australia, one of our states has just purchased a bunch of Chinese steel for a major infrastructure project. Turns out the steel is pre-cracked and not fit for purpose. There's your premium right there, pal....
 
numbersman said:
Ha ha ha!!! "Premium Chinese"!!!! Now that is gold!!! Yes, they do make a lot of structural steel. Here in Australia, one of our states has just purchased a bunch of Chinese steel for a major infrastructure project. Turns out the steel is pre-cracked and not fit for purpose. There's your premium right there, pal....
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An anecdotal account of one order does not make the whole industry garbage. There's US manufacturers that also suck, but somehow they aren't indicative of the whole industry, yet one bad Chinese manufacturer make the whole country trash.

It sounds like if anything, your company cut corners and got substandard product as a result. You get what you pay for.
 
FWIW, I use Kershaw Cryos for miscellaneous stuff at the home and office, such as cutting down cardboard boxes.
The difference between the Chinese D2 Cryos vs the 8CR13MOV ones is definitely a thing.
They D2 last quite a bit longer before dulling to the point of needing resharpening.
I don’t have a lot of experience with non-Chinese D2 so I can not compare the two.
I got a bunch of the D2 models for cheap during a sale, so I imagine the price I paid @ ~30/ea means there’s prolly little to no difference in their heat treat or else the price would reflect it.
 
id like to see a comparison of Chinese D2 vs Dozier D2 ; those results would prove interesting.
 
I think it's important to note that the discussion at hand here is the base material from which the knives are made, rather than build quality of the finished product, and that there are very few steels in existence that were developed specifically as knife steels. Most were invented for the tool and die industry and aerospace industry, and they just happen to be good for knives, as well. So I'd guess China probably has some domestic production of steels in grades suitable for manufacturing aerospace parts and producing wear-resistant cutting bits and dies for the manufacture of other sorts of goods. The question is whether or not they've developed their own formulations or if they just use common industry formulations.
 
KVT said:
FWIW, I use Kershaw Cryos for miscellaneous stuff at the home and office, such as cutting down cardboard boxes.
The difference between the Chinese D2 Cryos vs the 8CR13MOV ones is definitely a thing.
They D2 last quite a bit longer before dulling to the point of needing resharpening.
I don’t have a lot of experience with non-Chinese D2 so I can not compare the two.
I got a bunch of the D2 models for cheap during a sale, so I imagine the price I paid @ ~30/ea means there’s prolly little to no difference in their heat treat or else the price would reflect it.
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I've used a lot of knives in 8Cr13Mov (or worse) over the years. That might have been a good benchmark on the cheap end once upon a time but I don't meet many people who love it. It's just not a great steel. If that's what you're used to, getting Chinese D2 on something like a Ganzo or a $30 Kershaw could be a really big deal.

Most of the time, I see people knocking Chinese D2 relative to higher-end knives. As you go up in price and start comparing that Chinese D2 with other decent steels or D2 that has been more carefully treated, of course it's going to be a different story.

Scope matters for this thread. Whatever feelings people have about China, the Chinese, international politics, etc.; can anyone deny that we've been seeing some very well-made knives from them lately? I challenge anyone to pick up a $42 Civivi and rate it against other options in that price range. Heck, compare it to options that cost twice as much. The fact that you could should say something. Unless something significant changes, I think the topic question here is just a matter of time.
 
Nsled said:
I've just been looking at all the steels and where they sit on the edge retention and toughness ladder, all USA or EU, but is there a hidden gem coming out of china?

When I see Chinese made I nearly inevitably see stainless? Are there any powdered steels coming out of there? Any equivalents to the likes of A2 etc.?

If you could have any Chinese steel what would it be?
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My issue with China is what they claim they have and what they actually have, may not match up at all. The Chinese are capable of producing outstanding products if/when they want to, and I doubt steel would be any different, but I don't trust them after several decades working in the supplement industry. With them "trust but verify" is a must. I know there's some Chinese produced knives some really like.
 
WillB said:
My issue with China is what they claim they have and what they actually have, may not match up at all. The Chinese are capable of producing outstanding products if/when they want to, and I doubt steel would be any different, but I don't trust them after several decades working in the supplement industry. With them "trust but verify" is a must. I know there's some Chinese produced knives some really like.
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China is demand-driven. The high-end knife manufacturers (WE, Reate, CKF) do exceptional work. There are also plenty of companies in China that will make you Jarbenzas by the thousand if you cut a check. I don’t doubt there are some Chinese-market steels that would work well in cutlery, the issues are whether there’s demand and whether anyone will go out on a limb and make a knife with one of them without knowing how it’ll be received.
 
DocJD said:
Disparage the Chinese at your peril .

Consider how far they've come from almost nothing in '72 : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Nixon's_1972_visit_to_China
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Men at peal harbor assumed white guys were in the japanese planes too.....After they had just trounced the Russians a decade before.

We have disrespected the Japanese for the better part of a century.

Been a lonnnnnnnnnnng time since the Chinese did anything to deserve our respect. Like invention of gun powder long.

Not saying it won't be true in the future. But to compare them to the Japanese is a bit early. The Chinese will grow old before they grow rich...Unlike the japanese who got rich before their birthrate fell to nothing.
 
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