Are there any premium Chinese steels?

Status
Not open for further replies.
OrangeBlueOrangeBlue said:
China is demand-driven. The high-end knife manufacturers (WE, Reate, CKF) do exceptional work. There are also plenty of companies in China that will make you Jarbenzas by the thousand if you cut a check. I don’t doubt there are some Chinese-market steels that would work well in cutlery, the issues are whether there’s demand and whether anyone will go out on a limb and make a knife with one of them without knowing how it’ll be received.
Click to expand...

Per my prior comments, I have no doubt they can and do produce quality steels, and if I were a company that decided to use their steel, I'd batch test every time knowing the m390 I was purchasing "mistakenly" become 420c a few batches later. Having said that, I happily own a Hardcore Hardware knife that some don't like here because some of the work in done in China, while they're an Australian company. It would appear they do an excellent job of QC and sourcing from my experiences.
 
Last edited:
dkb45 said:
An anecdotal account of one order does not make the whole industry garbage. There's US manufacturers that also suck, but somehow they aren't indicative of the whole industry, yet one bad Chinese manufacturer make the whole country trash.

It sounds like if anything, your company cut corners and got substandard product as a result. You get what you pay for.
Click to expand...

You know dkb45, you will get banned here on BF for getting off topic, using common sense, looking at the world with eyes wide open, and using sound judgement. This is a thread to bash Chinese people, their ethics and integrity. Comments like "screw the Chinese" and other typical BF commentary is acceptable. Considered thought is not. Join the group hate ethic and bash the Chinese....

wait... nevermind. I forgot while reading this that the OP was asking about premium Chinese steels.

Personally, I don't think China differs much from others in their knife making practices and use of steel. It is well documented here that American makers fraudulently sold knives with steel incorrectly labeled. I have bought American knives that weren't super premium brands, but supposedly good users that were CRAP. Not only poor steel, poor construction, poor fit and finish to boot.

I think the most important thing to do when buying a knife is to research the manufacturer, the model, its steel, and if possible its performance. The stupidity here is that some have bought low cost knives from questionable manufacturers and expect premium or near premium performance for its steel type. It is obvious that Chinese can and do make good steel blades and install them on good knives if one is willing to pay for it. In that way, it almost sounds like the USA.

Robert
 
midnight flyer said:
You know dkb45, you will get banned here on BF for getting off topic, using common sense, looking at the world with eyes wide open, and using sound judgement. This is a thread to bash Chinese people, their ethics and integrity. Comments like "screw the Chinese" and other typical BF commentary is acceptable. Considered thought is not. Join the group hate ethic and bash the Chinese....
Click to expand...
Oops! Forgot that it's only acceptable these days to bash the USA. Hell, even the Americans are doing it! :rolleyes:

wait... nevermind. I forgot while reading this that the OP was asking about premium Chinese steels.

It is well documented here that American makers fraudulently sold knives with steel incorrectly labeled.
Click to expand...
And they have been mercilessly raked over the coals here on many different occasions for it.

I think the most important thing to do when buying a knife is to research the manufacturer, the model, its steel, and if possible its performance.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
The stupidity here is that some have bought low cost knives from questionable manufacturers and expect premium or near premium performance for its steel type.
Click to expand...
That is the allure from "Made in China" isn't it? Exceptional value for the money.
ETA: I wonder how "they" can make a knife with the same materials that "we" use for half the price and still turn a worthwhile profit?
It is obvious that Chinese can and do make good steel blades and install them on good knives if one is willing to pay for it. In that way, it almost sounds like the USA.

Robert
Click to expand...
I wonder if you would rather work for a Chinese knife manufacturer, or an American one?
 
Last edited:
danbot said:
I wonder if you would rather work for a Chinese knife manufacturer, or an American one?
Click to expand...

Not sure why that would matter to you. Companies are companies, people are people. I think there is a real degree of silliness of folks thinking because they carry a knife they have some kind of "honor" or a special degree of thoughtfulness towards their fellow man, and especially one another. Companies that make knives are in it for money which for me, as a dyed in the wool capitalist (40 years of self employment as a general contractor) is just fine. But I have seen waaaay too many companies hide behind the flag, our American slogans and symbols to hide crappy work to think just because they talk they talk that they walk the walk. So I tend to judge companies and people individually.

I can think of any of the mass producers of knives that are 100% American. Do we know where they get their blade stock for stamping? Do we know where they get their micarta? Their screws? How do we know what is "jobbed out" and what isn't? I think it to take too long to verify then assign a percentage of actual domestic product used in a knife. And what if some of those assembling the knives were on work visas?

Too, when I think of Amercian companies, I think of Enron, people like Skilling, Madoff, and on a on. Billions and billions of money stolen outright by that one company and one man. And yes, Americans all. They didn't just disappoint someone that wanted good knife steel at dimestore prices, they ruined the lives of thousands.

BTW, not sure what the little purple grape face means in emoji world. But as far as those people everywhere and in every station of life (too bad no congressman read this little forum) that continue to berate and criticize our country my fondest wish is that we could have an unlimited amount of one way tickets to ship them into outer space.

As for my employment selection, I would hope that if I had a choice to work for a company now (I have been told I am too old to work for one, but can still run all aspects of mine... go figure) that I would not use nationalism as a single criteria as your question pointedly asks. I would like to think I would go to work for the company that treated their workers the best (sorry, it's the blue collar in me to put that first), the company that paid its workers the best, was a part of their local community, and one that worked hard to make an honest product for an honest price.

Robert
 
midnight flyer said:
Not sure why that would matter to you. Companies are companies, people are people. I think there is a real degree of silliness of folks thinking because they carry a knife they have some kind of "honor" or a special degree of thoughtfulness towards their fellow man, and especially one another. Companies that make knives are in it for money which for me, as a dyed in the wool capitalist (40 years of self employment as a general contractor) is just fine. But I have seen waaaay too many companies hide behind the flag, our American slogans and symbols to hide crappy work to think just because they talk they talk that they walk the walk. So I tend to judge companies and people individually.

I can think of any of the mass producers of knives that are 100% American. Do we know where they get their blade stock for stamping? Do we know where they get their micarta? Their screws? How do we know what is "jobbed out" and what isn't? I think it to take too long to verify then assign a percentage of actual domestic product used in a knife. And what if some of those assembling the knives were on work visas?

Too, when I think of Amercian companies, I think of Enron, people like Skilling, Madoff, and on a on. Billions and billions of money stolen outright by that one company and one man. And yes, Americans all. They didn't just disappoint someone that wanted good knife steel at dimestore prices, they ruined the lives of thousands.

BTW, not sure what the little purple grape face means in emoji world. But as far as those people everywhere and in every station of life (too bad no congressman read this little forum) that continue to berate and criticize our country my fondest wish is that we could have an unlimited amount of one way tickets to ship them into outer space.

As for my employment selection, I would hope that if I had a choice to work for a company now (I have been told I am too old to work for one, but can still run all aspects of mine... go figure) that I would not use nationalism as a single criteria as your question pointedly asks. I would like to think I would go to work for the company that treated their workers the best (sorry, it's the blue collar in me to put that first), the company that paid its workers the best, was a part of their local community, and one that worked hard to make an honest product for an honest price.

Robert
Click to expand...
I do agree with most of your points in this response.
Yes, companies are in business for the money, but so are the employees. They deserve protection and dignity and a fair wage that they can use to provide for their families. Unfortunately under a fake capitalism (Communist capitalism? :confused:) that really doesn't happpen the way it does for you and I.

I don't feel some kind of thoughtfulness for my fellow man because I carry an American made knife. I identify with blue collar workers because I am one too.
I'm sure some of the higher end knife companies in China do pay well (relatively) and have good working conditions because they need more skilled workers than a lot of other industries.

My frustration comes from not being able to avoid speaking with my dollars in most areas of purchase. I have control over where my knife dollars go and I really prefer that it's not China.

Add on top of all of these sentiments their political BS... and hence the "Screw China".
 
I understand wanting to support our country and the jobs of our citizens. When you buy a knife, you want to influence the economy and standard of living in our favor. That's awesome. The problem is that the lion's share of influence is already be wielded by governments and cliques of powerful people. This is international economics in the "global economy". It doesn't make sense to hate the Chinese when they offer you a great product at a low price. If change is that important to you, buy something from a local craftsman and get active in politics.
 
Interesting discussion on knife steel. If you want to find out more about Chinese steel talk to a trucker about wheel bearings. Most companies have placed profit before quality. Timken is a prime example as they have been making bearings in China for years.
 
danbot said:
My frustration comes from not being able to avoid speaking with my dollars in most areas of purchase. I have control over where my knife dollars go and I really prefer that it's not China.
Click to expand...

I am certainly with you on that. I was no less than heartbroken when my favorite tool manufacturers started making their tools in China. It started with hand tools; names of tools I grew up with were suddenly gone for a while, then back, but different. We were suspicious and didn't want trouble on site. We were PROHIBITED from using non USA made tools! Fine with me. I grew up in Military Town USA (nickname for San Antonio, TX), and you didn't have any German tools, Japanese tools, Italian tools, or any tools from countries we fought in the past. No one cared about China as they weren't a factor then.

Over the years I watched Rockwell, Delta, Powermatic, Buffalo, and and others go away. Then they came back from foreign (mostly Chinese) manufacture. I couldn't believe it. Then DeWalt. Then the industrial line of Black and Decker that was made here. Stanley moved out a lot of its manufacturing. Plumb hammers and hatchets went to China. Then the lowest, heartbreaking shot... Milwaukee. I was a real fan and as a starting carpenter in the mid 70s put a ton of money into their tools as they were just the best tools in my eyes. Made from American parts, assembled and warranted here in the USA. Then when they make their comeback, China? Really? I quit buying their tools and still won't today.

I wish it weren't so, but I am kind of numb to the whole Chinese issue now. When I need what I consider consumables to run my company such as saw blades, drill bits, extension cords, hand tools, hammers, levels, nails, screws, drivers, and on a on, they are all made in China. And the powered hand tools themselves are all from China unless I quadruple (or more) the price and buy German.

But what holds true for my tools holds true for my knives. I buy good tools (sadly, still made in China) that are well built enough to stand job site hard use conditions and still get a lifetime warranty. So good products can be made if requested or required by a vendor. Likewise, no doubt in my mind that as we see an excellent knife can be made by the Chinese, steel included. Just like anything else, gotta pay for it. One shouldn't whine because their $40 Chinese D2 doesn't meet their expectations.

Robert
 
midnight flyer said:
I am certainly with you on that. I was no less than heartbroken when my favorite tool manufacturers started making their tools in China. It started with hand tools; names of tools I grew up with were suddenly gone for a while, then back, but different. We were suspicious and didn't want trouble on site. We were PROHIBITED from using non USA made tools! Fine with me. I grew up in Military Town USA (nickname for San Antonio, TX), and you didn't have any German tools, Japanese tools, Italian tools, or any tools from countries we fought in the past. No one cared about China as they weren't a factor then.

Over the years I watched Rockwell, Delta, Powermatic, Buffalo, and and others go away. Then they came back from foreign (mostly Chinese) manufacture. I couldn't believe it. Then DeWalt. Then the industrial line of Black and Decker that was made here. Stanley moved out a lot of its manufacturing. Plumb hammers and hatchets went to China. Then the lowest, heartbreaking shot... Milwaukee. I was a real fan and as a starting carpenter in the mid 70s put a ton of money into their tools as they were just the best tools in my eyes. Made from American parts, assembled and warranted here in the USA. Then when they make their comeback, China? Really? I quit buying their tools and still won't today.

I wish it weren't so, but I am kind of numb to the whole Chinese issue now. When I need what I consider consumables to run my company such as saw blades, drill bits, extension cords, hand tools, hammers, levels, nails, screws, drivers, and on a on, they are all made in China. And the powered hand tools themselves are all from China unless I quadruple (or more) the price and buy German.

But what holds true for my tools holds true for my knives. I buy good tools (sadly, still made in China) that are well built enough to stand job site hard use conditions and still get a lifetime warranty. So good products can be made if requested or required by a vendor. Likewise, no doubt in my mind that as we see an excellent knife can be made by the Chinese, steel included. Just like anything else, gotta pay for it. One shouldn't whine because their $40 Chinese D2 doesn't meet their expectations.

Robert
Click to expand...

Hey, at least my Sawzall is American made!! Actually I think that's the only milwaukee tool still American made! But I'll use milwaukee over dewalt, especially the bandsaws. Milwaukee seems to have a better feel to me.

I also hate how they're putting out all kinds of hand tools. I'm an electrician, and yes I have a few milwaukee hand tools. Their 6 in 1 wire strippers are awesome! Their diagonal cutters are crap. Their screwdrivers are crap. Don't know about their linemans pliers, but they look too bulky, but are made in Taiwan at least.

I have German, American, Canadian, and some Chinese made tools. I have American, Taiwanese, and Chinese knives. There's no avoiding it these days, so I don't. And I don't hate China... Just the communist component. But I'm sure the people are great. I mean, Jackie Chan!! Am I right?
 
馬馬虎虎 is the operative phrase for Chinese manufacturing. Mamahuhu, translated "so so." They will make something only as good as it needs to be because any better is a waste of time and money to their way of thinking. So if a company like Apple has things made in China and demands high QC, then the products are high quality because that is what is needed.
If a company makes millions of widgets, and they sell enough widgets to make a profit, no matter how crappy it is, it is "good enough" because it makes money.
But Chinese companies aren't alone in this. I know of American companies that have the same philosophy.
 
soc_monki said:
And I don't hate China... Just the communist component. But I'm sure the people are great. I mean, Jackie Chan!! Am I right?
Click to expand...

No, you're not. He's Hong Kongese.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hongkongers

Glad you're sure the actual Chinese people are great even if they are Communists. I'm sure they appreciate it.

DrHenley said:
馬馬虎虎 is the operative phrase for Chinese manufacturing. Mamahuhu, translated "so so." They will make something only as good as it needs to be because any better is a waste of time and money to their way of thinking. So if a company like Apple has things made in China and demands high QC, then the products are high quality because that is what is needed.
If a company makes millions of widgets, and they sell enough widgets to make a profit, no matter how crappy it is, it is "good enough" because it makes money.
But Chinese companies aren't alone in this. I know of American companies that have the same philosophy.
Click to expand...

This post nailed it. Hit it out of the park. Chinese manufacturing is run by the same principles as any other country's manufacturing.
 
I hate to say it. But the Chinese can trounce any other manufacturer so long as innovation is not involved and process is. Bc then it comes down to tooling and locking in process, sourcing materials.

There is a paradigm shift where some Chinese realize there is a large global market that will pay for quality manufactured goods as their own economy and quality of life of their citizens are improving in big cities. It's only matter of time.

Case in point I've been using made in China brake rotors on all of my cars for the last 4 years including my Audi A6. The rotors perform equal if not better than OEMs.

In the guitar world MIC branded Fenders (not Their sub brand) have been amazing values with as good fit and finish as their made in Mexico guitars.
 
GatorFlash1 said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic
Click to expand...

This doesn't answer my question, which means, you don't have an answer. Taiwan people do not consider themselves Chinese, and in fact reject China's constant attempts at reunification.

P.S. No, Mexicans aren't Spaniards, even though they both speak Spanish. I mean, unless you have a neat link somewhere showing me a country called...Hispania, I guess? Hispanios? LOL

P.S.S. You seem to be having some trouble, but enjoy links, so I thought I'd help you out:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwanese_identity

Notice the increasing figures in those polls where Taiwanese people see themselves as Taiwanese only? Hmmmmmm....
 
Quiet said:
This doesn't answer my question, which means, you don't have an answer. Taiwan people do not consider themselves Chinese, and in fact reject China's constant attempts at reunification.

Notice the increasing figures in those polls where Taiwanese people see themselves as Taiwanese only? Hmmmmmm....
Click to expand...
Taiwanese are Han Chinese originally from Fujian Province and the Taiwanese language is Fujianese. They write using traditional Chinese characters (as opposed to the simplified Chinese characters in Communist China) But Taiwanese are not the only Chinese in Taiwan. The second largest group of Chinese in Taiwan are Hakka (my wife is Hakka) who have at least a couple of different Chinese dialects of their own separate from Taiwanese, and they are proud to call themselves Han. The current president of Taiwan is Hakka. The third largest group is Mandarin.

It's not that they don't see themselves as Chinese, the Taiwanese do not see Taiwan as part of the country of China. But most Hakka and the vast majority of Mandarin do. As does the United States. It is a political distinction, not a cultural distinction. Chinese religion, culture and cuisine are preserved much better in Taiwan than on the mainland due to Mao's Cultural Revolution.

See One China Policy in order to better educate yourself about the situation.
 
Last edited:
Love all this talk about premium Chinese steel instead of the dead horse beating that we usually get about all things Chinese
 
DrHenley said:
Taiwanese are Han Chinese originally from Fujian Province and the Taiwanese language is Fujianese. They write using traditional Chinese characters (as opposed to the simplified Chinese characters in Communist China) But Taiwanese are not the only Chinese in Taiwan. The second largest group of Chinese in Taiwan are Hakka (my wife is Hakka) who have at least a couple of different Chinese dialects of their own separate from Taiwanese, and they are proud to call themselves Han. The current president of Taiwan is Hakka. The third largest group is Mandarin.

It's not that they don't see themselves as Chinese, the Taiwanese do not see Taiwan as part of the country of China. But most Hakka and the vast majority of Mandarin do. As does the United States. It is a political distinction, not a cultural distinction. Chinese religion, culture and cuisine are preserved much better in Taiwan than on the mainland due to Mao's Cultural Revolution.

See One China Policy in order to better educate yourself about the situation.
Click to expand...

Every Taiwanese person I've spoken to in person considers themselves Taiwanese, despite the fact that they speak Chinese and have Chinese origins. This is born up through multiple google-fu searches (see the link I provided). They do not consider themselves Chinese, and in fact, do not appreciate Communist China continuing in its constant efforts to reabsorb capitalist-leaning Democratic Taiwan. Can't say I blame them at all.

In any case, it's why I have no issue with knives from Taiwan, but try not to own or purchase any knives from China. I own one such knife, a Massdrop Keen, and I regret buying it.
 
Like I said before, it's political, not cultural. Did you even read the article on the One China Policy? It's a very complex situation politically and almost incomprehensible to Westerners. Taiwanese are most definitely culturally and ethnically Chinese whether they admit it or not.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top