Are you over Super Steels?

D.B Cooper said:
Eh. I guess im kind of "over" super steels, since I've drifted fully into Traditional Land. 1095 does all my cutting chores just fine, and i have a couple of stainless traditionals for when the mood strikes me. The only exeption is my cherished Sebenza 25, which is S35vn, but really could be anything as far as im concerned. I would still love that knife just the same. Its more about blade geometry and ergonomics to me.
Click to expand...


You just made me want a CRK in a carbon
 
Honestly, I'm over the term "super steel" more so than the super steels themselves.

Take my favorite fixed vs. my favorite folder, the Ratmandu and Para 2. S30V (or any of the high-carbide variants, for those of you that no longer consider S30V to be a super steel) isn't going to perform well on a chopper. Likewise, SR101 isn't going to perform well on a folder. In that sense, calling a super steel "super" is a little bit of a misnomer to me, because that performance isn't in a vacuum - things like blade profile and cutting media matter. The term "more-appropriate-than-others steel" might be more fitting, but hey, it's not as catchy.

So instead, I've come to simply prefer the terms "low vs. high carbide" steels.

To directly answer the question, though... yes, I suppose I'm over them as far as hype goes, since I now lean towards simpler steels for the majority of my tasks. Carbon steel and VG-10/S30V comprise the majority of my lineup, and I'm perfectly content with that.
 
calc said:
Honestly, I'm over the term "super steel" more so than the super steels themselves.

Take my favorite fixed vs. my favorite folder, the Ratmandu and Para 2. S30V (or any of the high-carbide variants, for those of you that no longer consider S30V to be a super steel) isn't going to perform well on a chopper. Likewise, SR101 isn't going to perform well on a folder. In that sense, calling a super steel "super" is a little bit of a misnomer to me, because that performance isn't in a vacuum - things like blade profile and cutting media matter. The term "more-appropriate-than-others steel" might be more fitting, but hey, it's not as catchy.

So instead, I've come to simply prefer the terms "low vs. high carbide" steels.

To directly answer the question, though... yes, I suppose I'm over them as far as hype goes, since I now lean towards simpler steels for the majority of my tasks. Carbon steel and VG-10/S30V comprise the majority of my lineup, and I'm perfectly content with that.
Click to expand...

Why wouldn't 52100 be good in a folder? Make it easy to disassemble or clad with a stainless and I think most guys would probably like it better than a lot of actual steels being used right now. The problem is there isn't much to choose from in that regards and even less experience. Ask people if they have used their cruwear or 3V knives from Spyderco harder than S90V blades. If they say yes ask them which steel they prefer.
 
bodog said:
Why wouldn't 52100 be good in a folder? Make it easy to disassemble or clad with a stainless and I think most guys would probably like it better than a lot of actual steels being used right now. The problem is there isn't much to choose from in that regards and even less experience. Ask people if they have used their cruwear or 3V knives from Spyderco harder than S90V blades. If they say yes ask them which steel they prefer.
Click to expand...

I can only speak for myself, but in a folder I prefer:

- Corrosion resistance, since it's kept close to the body.
- High carbide content, since my cutting is mostly slicing on a low grit.

In a fixed I prefer:

- Toughness, since my cutting is mostly chopping or push cutting.
- Ease of sharpening, since there's a lot of blade to sharpen and I typically use a high grit.

SR101 has essentially no corrosion resistance, but is relatively tough and easy to sharpen. S30V has high corrosion resistance and high carbide content, but isn't relatively tough or easy to sharpen. There's nothing wrong with personal preference, but I just personally don't see much point in a 1095 folder or an S90V fixed, for example.
 
calc said:
I can only speak for myself, but in a folder I prefer:

- Corrosion resistance, since it's kept close to the body.
- High carbide content, since my cutting is mostly slicing on a low grit.

In a fixed I prefer:

- Toughness, since my cutting is mostly chopping or push cutting.
- Ease of sharpening, since there's a lot of blade to sharpen and I typically use a high grit.

SR101 has essentially no corrosion resistance, but is relatively tough and easy to sharpen. S30V has high corrosion resistance and high carbide content, but isn't relatively tough or easy to sharpen. There's nothing wrong with personal preference, but I just personally don't see much point in a 1095 folder or an S90V fixed, for example.
Click to expand...

Cool. No problems with people identifying what they need and getting it. Personally I can see a skinner or a fillet knife being made out of something like S90V and I can easily see a folding knife being made out of something like thin 3V or equivalent. Toughness does not just apply to thick spines and prybars. Toughness is a big factor in edges, most people learn to live without it because there aren't many option anymore where toughness is even available in folders but listen to these guys who cut up bailing twine, etc, and they're saying they want tougher folding knives. Not to pry with, but to handle work that's harder than box cutting.
 
S30V from a good company. It's not stupid thin, 15 degrees per side. That's not hard work that caused that. That was one day's worth of work cutting banana boxes, furniture boxes, and a can of condensed milk. If you've cut cans before they aren't really that hard on good blades made with a steel that's strong and tough. It's not outside the realm of possibility to need to open a can without a can opener. It's going to take me over an hour to bring this edge back because of the wear resistance and amount of fracturing and that's with a good stone where I can work quickly. Admittedly I care about nice even scratch patterns. Taking care of this edge would be worse out in the field somewhere. The work I mentioned wouldn't necessitate a thick prybar of a folding or fixed blade knife. It just needs a good strong steel that doesn't rip apart when being used on things that even cheap can openers can handle.

5GZpEQI.jpg


CQu3kbU.jpg


Tf2T3vI.jpg
 
Last edited:
bodog said:
S30V from a good company. It's not stupid thin, 15 degrees per side. That's not hard work that caused that. That was one day's worth of work cutting banana boxes, furniture boxes, and a can of condensed milk. If you've cut cans before they aren't really that hard on good blades made with a steel that's strong and tough. It's not outside the realm of possibility to need to open a can without a can opener. It's going to take me over an hour to bring this edge back because of the wear resistance and amount of fracturing and that's with a good stone where I can work quickly. Admittedly I care about nice even scratch patterns. Taking care of this edge would be worse out in the field somewhere. The work I mentioned wouldn't necessitate a thick prybar of a folding or fixed blade knife. It just needs a good strong steel that doesn't rip apart when being used on things that even cheap can openers can handle.
Click to expand...


Interesting, I used to use S30V everyday as my work knife for doing the exact same things (Never cut cans with it or any other knife) you said plus more on a daily basis and could go a week or more without having to touch the edge.

Never had S30V look that bad, and that's in more than one knife over the years.
 
Ankerson said:
Interesting, I used to use S30V everyday as my work knife for doing the exact same things (Never cut cans with it or any other knife) you said plus more on a daily basis and could go a week or more without having to touch the edge.

Never had S30V look that bad, and that's in more than one knife over the years.
Click to expand...

Same thing has happened to S30V and S110V from other well known companies. PSF27 does not, Elmax does a little, 1095 and now 52100 do not, Vanadis 4E does not, S60V rolled but didn't chip, 14c28n does not, 420HC does not, B75P did a little, AUS6 rolled but didn't fracture. I covered stainless, semi-stainless, and non-stainless, high carbide and low carbide. The only things in common are the steel producer, carbide volume at +/- 59 to 60 HRC, and high corrosion resistance. How they tie together, I don't know. I do know other steels don't have the fracturing problem like what's shown.

And to be fair, there were a lot boxes that day it was about a 16 hour day that day. I mentioned them specifically because that was the bulk of the work but there were other boxes, straps, plastic wrapping, etc cut.
 
Last edited:
bodog said:
Same thing has happened to S30V and S110V from other well known companies. PSF27 does not, Elmax does a little, 1095 and now 52100 do not, Vanadis 4E does not, S60V rolled but didn't chip, 14c28n does not, 420HC does not, B75P did a little, AUS6 rolled but didn't fracture. I covered stainless, semi-stainless, and non-stainless, high carbide and low carbide. The only things in common are the steel producer, carbide volume at +/- 59 to 60 HRC, and high corrosion resistance. How they tie together, I don't know. I do know other steels don't have the fracturing problem like what's shown.
Click to expand...

The only steel I ever killed was ZDP-189 and that was due to taking the edge angle below 10 DPS so it was my fault. Going back to 15 DPS fixed the issue.

That S30V edge looks like you beat it on that cedar block. ;)
 
I've been over super steels for many years. When I was getting started, AUS-8 and 10 were the flavor of the week, then ATS34, VG10, and on.

Yet, when there is work to be done, the knife in my pocket is 1095, 1090 or 0176C. Simple carbon steels. Geometry beats steel every time for me.
 
Ankerson said:
The only steel I ever killed was ZDP-189 and that was due to taking the edge angle below 10 DPS so it was my fault. Going back to 15 DPS fixed the issue.

That S30V edge looks like you beat it on that cedar block. ;)
Click to expand...

Yeah, it does look pretty nasty. That's common with my knives though, hence my recent conversion to high strength and high toughness over high carbide volume and corrosion resistance. I'm still gonna sharpen it and take it to work, that kind of edge is nothing new. The knife itself kicks ass for what I do, but I'm eyeballing cruwear pretty hard in a folder.
 
bodog said:
Yeah, it does look pretty nasty. That's common with my knives though, hence my recent conversion to high strength and high toughness over high carbide volume and corrosion resistance.
Click to expand...

Still wondering what you actually did with it, S30V can take quite a bit so for the edge to look that bad it took a lot of serious abuse to get it to that point.
 
I'm not talking about cutting through the side of it. Besides, if my cheap made in China can opener can do it my expensive knives should do it without too much trouble. Your dad may have been used to thin traditional folders? New times, new steels, and new capabilities.
 
Ankerson said:
Still wondering what you actually did with it, S30V can take quite a bit so for the edge to look that bad it took a lot of serious abuse to get it to that point.
Click to expand...

Just work man. Nothing crazy. And it's not just S30V. Elmax does the same but to a less extent. S110V does the same but to a greater extent.
 
Lycosa said:
Nah. Dad used a can opener.
Click to expand...

It's good that your dad carried a can opener everywhere. Are you saying I should carry with me a different and specific cutting tool for everything I could possibly encounter? Then what good would a knife be? Did your dad ever whittle with his pocket knife? They make something specific for that. Did your dad ever pull a splinter out with his knife? They make something specific for that. Just because folding knives have always been limited in the past doesn't mean they need to remain that way. The more a single knife can do, the better, at least for most people.. I don't want to limit what they may be capable of more than the steel will allow for.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top