Axis lock patent

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Leo3an

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hello,

I find many articles, posts and links talking about patent for Benchmade Axis lock has expired. Is this true?


I do not agree, want to buy or like Ganzo. Im merely curious if Benchmade Axis lock patent has expired as many claim.

Thanks.

Edited: i deleted stuff about China. Lets keep thread not about China, but Axis lock patent expiration please.

Thanks
 
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Leo3an said:
hello,

I find many articles, posts and links talking about patent for Benchmade Axis lock has expired. Is this true?


I do not agree, want to buy or like Ganzo. Im merely curious if Benchmade Axis lock patent has expired as many claim.

Thanks.

P.s. could we plz keep how “China is evil” content out of the thread.. i hate China too, will not buy Ganzo, they are evil cheaters and everything BF community says.. but I would rather focus on patent rather than China. i asked on general knife this and got cluttered because I didnt state Chinese hate clearly, and I was flamed for somehow supporting Ganzo for asking @_@. I do not support.

Thanks
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You weren't flamed. The thread got strange when you started talking about hating china, much like you have done here. You could simply omit any talk of China and you would have a valid thread. Unfortunately you have once again put china hate at the heart of the discussion for no reason and your assumption that we hate china here at bfc could not be further from the truth. We hate cloners, not all the people in the country where a lot of the clones come from. Vastly different.
 
craytab said:
You weren't flamed. The thread got strange when you started talking about hating china, much like you have done here. You could simply omit any talk of China and you would have a valid thread. Unfortunately you have once again put china hate at the heart of the discussion for no reason and your assumption that we hate china here at bfc could not be further from the truth. We hate cloners, not all the people in the country where a lot of the clones come from. Vastly different.
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Thank you craytab..i put it on P.s. hoping to just put a stop to china stuff before it even began. I will edit the post so it has no mention of China.

Thanks
 
So how many of these threads are you going to make? If the the first thread wasn’t evidence enough about how the majority of this forum feels about ganzo and the Bm axis lock I don’t know what to tell you. Look it up as you hinted in your first post you want to police Amazon go police Amazon. Clones aren’t wanted here and that’s what the ganzo company does. There are numerous threads about who owns it or if they still own it blah blah blah. Go do the research and figure it out. Or you can come here with a thread agian to ruffle feathers just to ruffle feathers. And please don’t say you aren’t trying to kick the hornets nest because if you weren’t you would have never added the PS. That you deleted because it wasn’t needed and you have made your point clear to your stance in other Chinese threads. No need to try and slip it in more.
 
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I will tell you who has the best idea with regards to when that patent will go public. The legal team at Benchmade, Mcwilliams and Henry, and I suspect that all the major players (the Glessers, the guys at Buck, the Cold Steel folks, etc) will have a pretty good idea of how they will handle both trademarks and similar issues. Once the patent goes, anyone will be able to make the lock, but they may not be able to call it an Axis-lock, though I'm not sure its visual enough for it to be protected as a trademark visually (like a coke bottle) But until those announcements get made, all we are doing is speculating, feel free to assume that Benchmade and M&H feel its defensible at this point, and really that's all that matters.
 
Thanks.

I was curious because there are videos, articles, posts, and others stating that patent for Axis lock is already expired.

Just want to know if those are true or not. I was hoping someone at BF would have more knowledge than I do.

I should not have added the P.S. in restrospect and i have deleted it. In last thread it got weird because people just assumed that i wanted to buy a Ganzo and said I need to learn better or leave the community. Didnt want people to assume I was a Ganzo supported, so I wanted to make sure before people start assuming. My apologies.

I am looking through bunch of sources online, and majority says Axis lock patent has already expired. Anyone know for sure? This is me researching.

Thanks.
 
You didn't know you were walking into a minefield, and that's fine. Keep in mind that unless someone has primary sources, they are just offering opinion. Most of the articles and posts come from someone doing a google patent search, and thinking they are an IP layer. When Cold Steel starts releasing axis-lock knives, then it might be safe to say the patent is public. It will take a lot of reading, but seriously, every angle on this has been covered here, just gotta search and find.
 
Leo3an said:
Thanks.

I was curious because there are videos, articles, posts, and others stating that patent for Axis lock is already expired.

Just want to know if those are true or not. I was hoping someone at BF would have more knowledge than I do.

I should not have added the P.S. in restrospect and i have deleted it. In last thread it got weird because people just assumed that i wanted to buy a Ganzo and said I need to learn better or leave the community. Didnt want people to assume I was a Ganzo supported, so I wanted to make sure before people start assuming. My apologies.

I am looking through bunch of sources online, and majority says Axis lock patent has already expired. Anyone know for sure? This is me researching.

Thanks.
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Gadgetgeek is right. You are seeking secondary sources which are just opinions and are thus meaningless. You need to go to the primary sources on the patent website and do your own research to form your own opinion. I've done it and I feel the patent is still in effect.

Perhaps @Benchmade can comment.
 
craytab said:
Gadgetgeek is right. You are seeking secondary sources which are just opinions and are thus meaningless. You need to go to the primary sources on the patent website and do your own research to form your own opinion. I've done it and I feel the patent is still in effect.

Perhaps @Benchmade can comment.
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My question was not “what is your opinion or belief on Axis lock patent expiration. but “does anyone know”... Yes, i was looking to see if anyone had a professional knowledge. It is perfectly fine, if no one knows.

But it seems odd that I should be forming an opinion, or asking about their opinions about this.

There is a definate fact, if patent is either in effect or expired. Researching and forming my unprofessional opinion does not provide facts...

Im not going to hire a lawyer to find out. Im not a lawyer. So I was asking if anyone with real professional knowledge knows for sure (not based on their opinion or googling). Again, it is perfectly fine if I dont get an answer... but when the reply is “why dont you guess the answer yourself”... i roll my eyes. Might as well just copy & paste:

“Do your own research and form your own opinion”

Whenever anyone askes about anything.
 
Leo3an said:
My question was not “what is your opinion or belief on Axis lock patent expiration. but “does anyone know”... Yes, i was looking to see if anyone had a professional knowledge. It is perfectly fine, if no one knows.

But it seems odd that I should be forming an opinion, or asking about their opinions about this.

There is a definate fact, if patent is either in effect or expired. Researching and forming my unprofessional opinion does not provide facts...

Im not going to hire a lawyer to find out. Im not a lawyer. So I was asking if anyone with real professional knowledge knows for sure (not based on their opinion or googling). Again, it is perfectly fine if I dont get an answer... but when the reply is “why dont you guess the answer yourself”... i roll my eyes. Might as well just copy & paste:

“Do your own research and form your own opinion”

Whenever anyone askes about anything.
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Look, it is a complicated issue. This is far from the first time we've had this discussion and the answer is always the same. Nobody knows for sure. It is not a simple yes or no fact. You are going to have to live with that. Sorry if that concept is hard to grasp for you but it is what it is. So as I said before, spend a couple hours with the primary sources at the patent office. Form your own opinion after going down that rabit hole. Or listen to those who have done it or to idiots who are guessing. Choice is yours. This is how most things in life work. Do your own research and come to your own conclusions.

I'm of the opinion that it is still in effect but I have said before that we won't really know unless it is challenged in court.
 
To me, if a company is using the axis lock it's trying to copy benchmade. It's like a benchmade trademark. It's what makes a benchmade a benchmade. Legal or not your taking some thing that's used primarily by one company. So when you take it for yourself you clearly trying to ride on someone else coat tails such as ganzo does.

Same with the Spyderco spider hole. If you copy the spydie hole, your copying spyderco and want to look like the brand for whatever reason. It's what makes spyderco, spyderco.

Why copy these timeless classics that have had these design cues for 20years.

Because they want to make money off someone else. It's wrong but Grey in legal terms. Sometimes it's black and white though. If a patent is filed in China it can be enforced but there is always companies that don't check patents. They don't know what that is for the most part. Culture in China is way different than the USA. It's ever changing and evolving with time too.

 
craytab said:
I'm of the opinion that it is still in effect but I have said before that we won't really know unless it is challenged in court.
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Thanks Craytab.. i did not know that there is no way to know if patent is in effect. That is very odd.

So a lawyer who deals with patents, a lawyer at Benchmade, a lawyer who deals with knife patents specifically... No one actually knows if Benchmade Axis lock patent is expired or not? They only have opinions on expiration date??
 
Leo3an said:
So a lawyer who deals with patents, a lawyer at Benchmade, a lawyer who deals with knife patents specifically... No one actually knows if Benchmade Axis lock patent is expired or not? They only have opinions on expiration date??
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You are not asking a lawyer who deals with patents or a lawyer at Benchmade or a lawyer who deals with knife patents specifically. If you want to know the answer so badly then ask a lawyer who deals with patents and/or ask a Benchmade lawyer. That’s where you will get the answer.
 
GatorMedic said:
You are not asking a lawyer who deals with patents or a lawyer at Benchmade or a lawyer who deals with knife patents specifically. If you want to know the answer so badly then ask a lawyer who deals with patents and/or ask a Benchmade lawyer. That’s where you will get the answer.
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Thank. That is correct, i kept saying does anyone have a professional knowledge of this.. not does anyone have an opinion about it.

So is it really “no one in the world knows, only have opinions”? Or did he say it because... he doesnt know and only have opinions?
 
Leo3an said:
Thanks Craytab.. i did not know that there is no way to know if patent is in effect. That is very odd.

So a lawyer who deals with patents, a lawyer at Benchmade, a lawyer who deals with knife patents specifically... No one actually knows if Benchmade Axis lock patent is expired or not? They only have opinions on expiration date??
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Did you go review the primary source documents on the patent office website yet?
GatorMedic said:
You are not asking a lawyer who deals with patents or a lawyer at Benchmade or a lawyer who deals with knife patents specifically. If you want to know the answer so badly then ask a lawyer who deals with patents and/or ask a Benchmade lawyer. That’s where you will get the answer.
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Exactly. And I'll add that I still believe it would take a ruling in court to tell us definitively. Bm clearly still thinks they in effect though and you don't see legit companies copying the lock. So there is that.
 
craytab said:
Did you go review the primary source documents on the patent office website yet?

Exactly. And I'll add that I still believe it would take a ruling in court to tell us definitively. Bm clearly still thinks they in effect though and you don't see legit companies copying the lock. So there is that.
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Hi Craytab,

Yes. Patent office website shows it was filed 20 years ago. Im not a lawyer, so i can only form an opinion. It is based on discussion with my lawyer on utility patents (non-knife related, just my own product), but i was hoping to ask about the knife here since he charges $280 per hour.

But then most answers here was “dont ask here, you do your own research and form an opinion”... which is odd. Almost seems like you can just copy & paste that to any question asked here.

Its ok if i dont get an answer. I was asking because maybe someone might be a lawyer or knows it for sure.
 
Leo3an said:
Hi Craytab,

Yes. Patent office website shows it was filed 20 years ago. Im not a lawyer, so i can only form an opinion. It is based on discussion with my lawyer on utility patents (non-knife related, just my own product), but i was hoping to ask about the knife here since he charges $280 per hour.

But then most answers here was “dont ask here, you do your own research and form an opinion”... which is odd. Almost seems like you can just copy & paste that to any question asked here.

Its ok if i dont get an answer. I was asking because maybe someone might be a lawyer or knows it for sure.
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I know what it says and there is a hell of a lot more to it than a simple "it was filed 20 years ago".

Good luck in your quest. I'm done here unless @Benchmade cares to shed light. I'm comfortable with the research I did that has informed my understanding of the subject.
 
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panoz77 said:
The Axis lock is not listed as protected under patent on the Benchmade website. Axis assist (assisted open axis lock) is listed and dual axis lock is listed as patent pending. Nothing on the original axis lock.
http://www.benchmade.com/patents
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What is... axis assist? I have never known it.
And you are right. The Benchmades patent page does not list Axis lock.... but lists other patents.

So why arent other knife makers just jumping in and making bunch of axis locks? But then again... it seems button locks have no patents but it isnt common either..
 
OK, I'll put my flamesuit on now, so here goes:
Whether or not the patent has expired isn't really as relevant as you might think. What is more relevant is that Benchmade believes it is still valid and they're still willing to defend it, and at this time none of their competitors seem to be willing to commit to the expense of developing, manufacturing, and distributing a locking mechanism like this when they know a lawsuit would be coming. My personal opinion is that the other companies are either disinterested in the lock, afraid of facing litigation due to the cost/legal fees, or afraid of facing backlash from the knife community. Or a combination of these things.

To make matters worse, the legal issue seems to be a bit convoluted; the original patent has been revised several times (US Pat. RE41,259) and as long as it keeps getting revised every few years, only a court of law can ultimately determine when that patent has expired.

I find Benchmade's silence about this issue very interesting. They aren't claiming any info about the patent on their website, they've re-designed the patent info on their knife blades so the RE41,259 info isn't there anymore, and they've been pretty silent about it on social media in spite of several threads like this. I'm willing to bet their legal team has told them directly not to talk about patent issues. I'm also willing to bet we won't see an 'axis' lock from any of Benchmade's competitors anytime soon.
 
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