Axis lock patent

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China tends to copy anything they want and generally get away with it. Just because a Chinese vendor stops selling a fake/clone doesn’t mean it is being sold elsewhere. It likely is.

Small (vs Apple, GE, Microsoft, Toyota, etc.) companies like Benchmade would fight a costly uphill battle trying to stop folks like Ganzo from copying their designs. Guitar makers, fashion designers and many other businesses are in the same boat. Likely not worth the hassle and legal costs.

Sucks, but that’s the way it is.
 
danthaman1980 said:
To make matters worse, the legal issue seems to be a bit convoluted; the original patent has been revised several times (US Pat. RE41,259) and as long as it keeps getting revised every few years, only a court of law can ultimately determine when that patent has expired.
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This right here. Thank you.
 
danthaman1980 said:
OK, I'll put my flamesuit on now, so here goes:
Whether or not the patent has expired isn't really as relevant as you might think. What is more relevant is that Benchmade believes it is still valid and they're still willing to defend it, and at this time none of their competitors seem to be willing to commit to the expense of developing, manufacturing, and distributing a locking mechanism like this when they know a lawsuit would be coming. My personal opinion is that the other companies are either disinterested in the lock, afraid of facing litigation due to the cost/legal fees, or afraid of facing backlash from the knife community. Or a combination of these things.

To make matters worse, the legal issue seems to be a bit convoluted; the original patent has been revised several times (US Pat. RE41,259) and as long as it keeps getting revised every few years, only a court of law can ultimately determine when that patent has expired.

I find Benchmade's silence about this issue very interesting. They aren't claiming any info about the patent on their website, they've re-designed the patent info on their knife blades so the RE41,259 info isn't there anymore, and they've been pretty silent about it on social media in spite of several threads like this. I'm willing to bet their legal team has told them directly not to talk about patent issues. I'm also willing to bet we won't see an 'axis' lock from any of Benchmade's competitors anytime soon.
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Thank you! This answer was a very informative answer.

Too many answers somehow deviate into Ganzo and China.. well, i guess people have strong opinions.

Some are just flat out saying “you go find out”, which is silly and they need to learn better or leave this community for good.
 
I emailed Benchmade with the question and It was ignored. It seems they are being silent for a reason on this specific subject.

I will call them next week to see if I can get an answer from them... but I have a feeling they will simply say “we cant tell you”. They are not obligated to andwer me, but it is curious why they do not say anything about it.
 
That sounds like a good argument to me. As to why we don't see the Axis being copied, I think silence is Golden and speaks for itself. Good posting above, thank you flamesuit and all.
 
"...and they need to learn better or leave this community for good." I sure hope none of us leaves this community any time soon. We're a good group and many of us have a wealth of experience. This is valuable for any new members as well as us old fogies. o_O
 
I imagine even if it has expired companies do not want to be the first to copy it and draw the ire of the knife hobby public.
 
I doubt that there would be much ire if proper credit was given, and it was handled in an upfront manner. Part of this would hinge on how M&H handed trademarks and naming. Even if they didn't I suspect that some makers would keep the naming convention, just as we see with some who list Walker liner lock, and some don't. The whole point of a patent is that it is impermanent, and the axis lock is quite good, though I'd like to see how other makers would implement it.
 
Leo3an said:
I emailed Benchmade with the question and It was ignored. It seems they are being silent for a reason on this specific subject.

I will call them next week to see if I can get an answer from them... but I have a feeling they will simply say “we cant tell you”. They are not obligated to andwer me, but it is curious why they do not say anything about it.
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I wouldn’t answer you either, you sound like you are fishing to see if you can legally copy the axis lock design for your own personal builds or gains. The comment about your lawyer seemed to further point toward this.
 
The design patent is expired. The utility patent is expired.
You don't get to renew a patent, but you can file a new one if you change the original design enough.
Filing for a new one doesn't provide any extended protection to the old one.
You don't have to give credit to the original patent holder if you use the design from an expired patent.
They're likely to stay mum if you ask them. Why "advertise" that your design is no longer protected so that other people can start using it for their own benefit?

China copies things. It's a cultural thing, but it also happens because the patent & copyright laws of the United States carry no weight in China, just like the laws in China carry no weight here.
 
halflife78 said:
I wouldn’t answer you either, you sound like you are fishing to see if you can legally copy the axis lock design for your own personal builds or gains. The comment about your lawyer seemed to further point toward this.
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I didnt ask my lawyer about Benchmade patent... because it would use his time and his time costs money. I would ask him, if i wanted to make money off of it, for sure. But I would rather ask here and Benchmade if Im looking to satisfy my curiosity. My curiosity is not worth the lawyer fee.
 
Man you need to know all this so you can report ganzo to Amazon? Even if the patent is over ganzo has been using this and other patents for awhile. So it’s this one or one of countless others they are stealing from.
Now on to another point your emails to BM probably went ignored because they don’t owe you a excuse or explanation to their patents or office business. I don’t for a minute believe you want all this info so you can report ganzo to Amazon. Your 2 posts on this subject and the bigotry in other threads you posted in shows a motive that isn’t just to report to Amazon. Just like others you’ll pound away on this subject and act like it’s just a innocent inquiry. But we all know it’s a subject that causes heated conversation to stir the pot of drama here.
 
gonebad395 said:
Man you need to know all this so you can report ganzo to Amazon? Even if the patent is over ganzo has been using this and other patents for awhile. So it’s this one or one of countless others they are stealing from.
Now on to another point your emails to BM probably went ignored because they don’t owe you a excuse or explanation to their patents or office business. I don’t for a minute believe you want all this info so you can report ganzo to Amazon. Your 2 posts on this subject and the bigotry in other threads you posted in shows a motive that isn’t just to report to Amazon. Just like others you’ll pound away on this subject and act like it’s just a innocent inquiry. But we all know it’s a subject that causes heated conversation to stir the pot of drama here.
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No i wasnt asking for the info just to report to Amazon. Yes I want to report them with some sort of backing than just “i assume they are selling these illegally on your website”. But more of it is just my curiosity. I have nothing to gain from the knowledge. Im not a knife maker, i dont own any knife company, and... i dont actually NEED to know this stuff. I want to know. No need for drama.

Is it very difficult for you to understand, that some people just want to know things?

It seems people are very hateful to China & Ganzo. I get that. I dont support them either. But asking about Benchmade Axis lock patent isn’t somehow supporting China and undermining Benchmade.
 
No it’s not difficult for me to understand that people just want to know things. But as said numerous times in BOTH threads you have started about this subject this has been discussed a lot. You said this is your research fine then try the search on this forum. You’ll find so much on this subject. And I could give a care less about China to tell you the truth. Every post you seem to squeeze a mention of China or everyone’s else’s perceived hatred of China. BM isn’t going to go out of business from ganzo trust me hold a ganzo it’s crap junk. Just use the search over this beaten up subject. Two reasons you started two threads on the same subject 1. Your to lazy to do your own research. 2. To start stuff over a subject that is a sore subject here and act like a innocent knowledge seeker.
 
gonebad395 said:
No it’s not difficult for me to understand that people just want to know things. But as said numerous times in BOTH threads you have started about this subject this has been discussed a lot. You said this is your research fine then try the search on this forum. You’ll find so much on this subject. And I could give a care less about China to tell you the truth. Every post you seem to squeeze a mention of China or everyone’s else’s perceived hatred of China. BM isn’t going to go out of business from ganzo trust me hold a ganzo it’s crap junk. Just use the search over this beaten up subject. Two reasons you started two threads on the same subject 1. Your to lazy to do your own research. 2. To start stuff over a subject that is a sore subject here and act like a innocent knowledge seeker.
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Why is Benchmade’s Axis lock patent even a sore subject? And asking about the patent is “start stuff over a subject that is a sore subject”? Wow... someone missed school in articulating words. Let me guess, anyone who asks anything here... should not ask right? Instead of asking they should “find their own answers and opinions at other place or by searching” because their questions are due to laziness, correct?

Please dont be so sensitive. Grow up please.
 
No missing school and not sensitive. Just a beat up subject and plenty of threads on it. And as of find your own answer, You came here asking. plenty of people have gave you answers. You emailed BM with no response so either you have your answer, didn’t get the answer you wanted to hear or you need to do more “research” and figure it out. So enjoy your investigation I’m sure you’ll break the conspiracy some day or someone else will do it for you.
 
panoz77 said:
The Axis lock is not listed as protected under patent on the Benchmade website. Axis assist (assisted open axis lock) is listed and dual axis lock is listed as patent pending. Nothing on the original axis lock.
http://www.benchmade.com/patents
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As was pointed out in the other ongoing thread on this same subject, BM doesn't own the rights to the axis lock. It wouldn't be listed there. Also, this would explain why BM won't discuss the patent. It is not theirs to discuss.
 
craytab said:
As was pointed out in the other ongoing thread on this same subject, BM doesn't own the rights to the axis lock. It wouldn't be listed there. Also, this would explain why BM won't discuss the patent. It is not theirs to discuss.
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Exactly, the patent IS expired on the axis lock. Although, they still own the name "axis". So anyone who now uses the lock must call it something else, like say "G-lock".
 
craytab said:
Look, it is a complicated issue. This is far from the first time we've had this discussion and the answer is always the same. Nobody knows for sure. It is not a simple yes or no fact. You are going to have to live with that. Sorry if that concept is hard to grasp for you but it is what it is. So as I said before, spend a couple hours with the primary sources at the patent office. Form your own opinion after going down that rabit hole. Or listen to those who have done it or to idiots who are guessing. Choice is yours. This is how most things in life work. Do your own research and come to your own conclusions.

I'm of the opinion that it is still in effect but I have said before that we won't really know unless it is challenged in court.
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craytab said:
As was pointed out in the other ongoing thread on this same subject, BM doesn't own the rights to the axis lock. It wouldn't be listed there. Also, this would explain why BM won't discuss the patent. It is not theirs to discuss.
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Glad to see that you are finally admitting the axis lock patent IS expired and the subject can be put to rest. It is not stealing to now use that lock system design.
 
panoz77 said:
Glad to see that you are finally admitting the axis lock patent IS expired and the subject can be put to rest. It is not stealing to now use that lock system design.
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I admitted no such thing. Please point out where I said that or don't put words in my mouth that I clearly didn't say. Benchmade never owned the axis lock from day one. The patent was never held by them.
 
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