Backpacking equipment--deodorant over knife?

DWK2 said:
With a number of the UL hikers I've met, a significant part of their sport is seeing how much they can do without. Even if the drop in weight is minimal and many others would think the lower weight was not worth the extra risk, they want to see whether they can accomplish the hike without that gear.
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I would understand this If they were ACTUALLY doing without! But they aren't. The UL philosophy would make sense to me if the guys were living off the land on their minimal supplies, but they're using the postal service to ship "bump boxes" full of stuff to towns further along the trail. What, exactly, are they doing without?

In my opinion, the ultimate "ultra-light" hiker was Nessmuk. He physically COULDN'T carry a lot of weight, due to his sickness. But he lived off of what he actually carried. If they aren't actually living off of what they carry, what exactly does it prove? The same goes for borrowing things that you didn't see fit to bring. If you have to borrow it from somebody, you aren't really doing without---you're just unprepared. Bottom line. It really doesn't make any logical sense.
 
Good points. I was thinking of UL hikers I've met, rather than the particular fellow who wrote the article under discussion. I don't think the UL hikers I've met would consider "borrowing" gear along the way to be getting by without the gear. That's merely relying on someone else to provide it.

Shipping supplies ahead on really long through hikes is in a different category in my mind. That just seems to be the way it needs to be done as a practical matter.

DancesWithKnives
 
I can see borrowing gear or food in an EMERGENCY, but not depending on the good will of others for a whole hike. That crap just pisses me off to no end.
 
Bushman5 said:
I can see borrowing gear or food in an EMERGENCY, but not depending on the good will of others for a whole hike. That crap just pisses me off to no end.
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I'm with you, Bushy. Many of them tend to look down on those of us who carry our own load, yet are quick to want to borrow from us.

As near as I can tell, they want other hikers and the postal service to carry their load, so they can brag about how little they carry. Anyone else see something wrong in that?
 
Yes, unprepared people sometimes annoy me too. One time I was backpacking in serious bear country. We ran in to a group that had lost all their food because they had no bear-resistant containers and hadn't bothered to learn how to hang a proper bear bag. They wondered if we could spare some of our food. We had no extra so I told them they'd just have to make the 6 hour hike out and handle the problem themselves. I wasn't going to compromise our trip on their account. Of course, I might have reacted somewhat differently if we had been three days from the trailhead.

DancesWithKnives
 
DWK2 said:
Yes, unprepared people sometimes annoy me too. One time I was backpacking in serious bear country. We ran in to a group that had lost all their food because they had no bear-resistant containers and hadn't bothered to learn how to hang a proper bear bag. They wondered if we could spare some of our food. We had no extra so I told them they'd just have to make the 6 hour hike out and handle the problem themselves. I wasn't going to compromise our trip on their account. Of course, I might have reacted somewhat differently if we had been three days from the trailhead.

DancesWithKnives
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That's understandable, DWK. These were people who had an emergency situation, but it was one that they had created. Fortunately, They could simply walk out having learned a valuable lesson: it's not like they didn't even bring food and were expecting to mooch off of others.

I think most of us are simply expressing disdain for the "other" type of person.
 
I can't see what is wrong with using the postal service. If I was hiking for 6 days and would be passing through a town half way through then why carry enough food & water for 6 days - buy what you need in the town or send stuff ahead to the post office and collect it. That just sounds like good planning to me.

Not carrying a knife because it weighs an ounce and you figure you can find someone to borrow one from seems a little different to me. The weight saving is minimal and relying on others has pitfalls - what if no one else is around when you need to cut something? Same with a lighter or a flashlight.

I understand that in a group you don't really need every member to carry an axe, in a group hike the fairest thing is probably to distribute the shared items between you - someone carries the axe, someone else carries the machete, etc. Or if an axe is the only thing that the group decides they need only one of they could have everyone take turns carrying it. In the article it didn't sound like the author negotiated with the group about who would carry what - he just advocated carrying the minimum and if he needed something he didn't have then he would borrow from someone else.
 
There is a popular saying, "Hike your own hike". I agree with that. People should be allowed to make their own informed choices. How much trouble they want to go to to get informed is up to them as well. Sure, the guy is taking what he considers to be a calculated but small risk.

Here is an example of a guy taking a calculated risk. Is he an idiot? IMHO, yes, but I wouldn't stop him for the world. He has a 75% chance of pulling this off and a 25% chance of failure. The odds in his favor never change no matter how many times he tries this.

Oh, this is a graphic knife trick failure, so be advised.

[youtube]mp5V2PX0KdE[/youtube]
 
Ok, so going out of the house, let alone into the woods without a knife isn't the best plan.

On the other hand, I was just thinking about adding antiperspirant to my camping pack. Something small, but powerful.
Who's tried those potassium alum rock thingies?
 
Cpl Punishment: Thanks for the info on Oetzi's gear list. Very interesting.

I don't think the posting of gear is such a bad idea if used sensibly. If I were doing a 4+ month trip and needed both a summer and winter weight sleepingbag, it would make sense to post it ahead till needed, rather than carrying both. Yes, I know you can make do with a cold weather bag in hot conditions, bit it's less than ideal.

Similarly, if you started carrying a mozzie net and hiked till the end of the mosquito season, it would make sense to then ship the net home.
 
Codger_64 said:
There is a popular saying, "Hike your own hike". I agree with that. People should be allowed to make their own informed choices. How much trouble they want to go to to get informed is up to them as well. Sure, the guy is taking what he considers to be a calculated but small risk.

Here is an example of a guy taking a calculated risk. Is he an idiot? IMHO, yes, but I wouldn't stop him for the world. He has a 75% chance of pulling this off and a 25% chance of failure. The odds in his favor never change no matter how many times he tries this.

Oh, this is a graphic knife trick failure, so be advised.

[youtube]mp5V2PX0KdE[/youtube]
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That is some funny stuff Codger!
 
beef said:
I don't think the posting of gear is such a bad idea if used sensibly. If I were doing a 4+ month trip and needed both a summer and winter weight sleepingbag, it would make sense to post it ahead till needed, rather than carrying both.
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That's the idea and reason for it. Figure as many as 20-30 weeks on the trail. You cannot carry that much food. You have to resupply and while you do, since you've got 700 miles of hot desert before the mountains, why not send ahead the laundry soap, the ice ax and crampons, the extra bottles of Advil, and heavier clothes and replacement boots.

The ultra light long distance people probably didn't start out that way, they did a trail and learned to shed some weight. They did another trail discovered they were better at it than most anyone and shed some more weight. Finally after several seasons, hundreds of nights on trails, and after hundreds of back to back 25-50 mile days they are down to these ridiculous low weights to allow for more food and fewer resupply days. Like some "elite" climbers they are in a class and world of their own.

Unfortunately, these elitist "in your face" gear lists to snub equipment sellers and folks like us that feel better having a knife and psk, make it "me" "me" "me" it's all about "me". There is nothing to spare or available to help others.
 
The problem with mailing yourself gear isn't in mailing yourself gear.

The problem is when guys brag about what great outdoorsmen they are because they get by with minimal gear, and yet are mailing themselves huge amounts of gear at the same time. It's the hypocrisy that pisses people off.

Folks that are honest about it and say they mail themselves stuff along the way so they don't have to carry it the whole way, and don't try to pretend it's because they have deh mad skillz, don't bother me.
 
Cpl Punishment said:
The problem with mailing yourself gear isn't in mailing yourself gear.

The problem is when guys brag about what great outdoorsmen they are because they get by with minimal gear, and yet are mailing themselves huge amounts of gear at the same time. It's the hypocrisy that pisses people off.
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Yup. That's the point I was trying to make. I could see it as a strategy for extremely long trails/hikes, but it doesn't exactly make one a master woodsman. :rolleyes:
 
Frostyfingers said:
Yup. That's the point I was trying to make. I could see it as a strategy for extremely long trails/hikes, but it doesn't exactly make one a master woodsman. :rolleyes:
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Here is a link to the PCT and another that shows all three of the longest trails.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Pacific_crest_trail_route_overview.png

http://www.fivemillionsteps.com/trailmap.php

I can't believe that a man or woman that enjoys the outdoors enough to complete all three of these hikes, totaling 18+ months on the trail and 8,000 miles of wilderness trekking, hasn't learned, practiced and mastered all the things so often discussed here.

At the most there are maybe 20 people that "thru" hike the Continental Divide Trail each year. It would be interesting to see one of their gear lists and the number of re-supply stops they took.
 
I can't believe that a man or woman that enjoys the outdoors enough to complete all three of these hikes, totaling 18+ months on the trail and 8,000 miles of wilderness trekking, hasn't learned, practiced and mastered all the things so often discussed here.
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I can.
 
Ramm9 said:
I can't believe that a man or woman that enjoys the outdoors enough to complete all three of these hikes, totaling 18+ months on the trail and 8,000 miles of wilderness trekking, hasn't learned, practiced and mastered all the things so often discussed here.
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nemoaz said:
I can.
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I've got to agree. I've never gone on a long thru hike, but a friend of my parents has hiked the AT at least five times from end to end over the course of forty years. He was no ultra-lite fanatic but he did use drop boxes to resupply. As much time as he spent in the woods and as much as he loves the outdoors, he has very little knowledge or skills of any of the topics discussed on this or any other survival forum. The fact of the matter is he never needed them on the AT. I have no idea if he ever needed a knife, though I'm sure he carried at least an SAK. But truthfully, you can embark on long treks on established backpacking trails without outdoor survival skills. I personally think such skills are a good thing to know but not all avid backpackers would agree with me.
 
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