BAD- [strike]MeatyBacchus478[/strike] frankp

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So what can the forum learn from this incident? As Rev is so fond of saying, "DO NOT USE PAYPAL GIFT!" It severely limits your options if things go bad. Also, when describing a knife for sale, always list it using a critical/worst case scenario description. Personally, I think the mods made the right call with the ban. Paul was obviously here for one reason only, and that was was to flip knives and profit from bf members. Mods, would it possible for you and Spark to come up with a new membership level for guys like this? Maybe somewhere between gold/platinum and dealer cost wise?

ETA- I have called out Karda multiple times for behavior I disagree with. I just want to point out I feel he did a great job IMO on this thread. He started out by asking the right questions, pointed out some great relevant info i(e Pauls forum participation),and offered a non judgemental rational opinion without inciting mob mentality. Kudos Karda.
 
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SaintlyBrees said:
Seriously? I personally think that the mods do a great job here and specifically did so in this thread. It wasn't until post 100 that a mod threatened to ban. It wasn't until post 190 that a mod compared frankp to Liu Kang. I doubt that influenced anyone's opinion.

Like always in these GBU threads, the mods did what was needed and did it well.
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I was typing something similar but saw this one and decided to call it quits as this covered my thoughts more succinctly.
:thumbup::thumbup:


Edit: No offense intended to jdm666
 
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SaintlyBrees said:
Seriously? I personally think that the mods do a great job here and specifically did so in this thread. It wasn't until post 100 that a mod threatened to ban. It wasn't until post 190 that a mod compared frankp to Liu Kang. I doubt that influenced anyone's opinion.

Like always in these GBU threads, the mods did what was needed and did it well.
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I appreciate you going back and review the tapes on all out behalfs.

I however note - that not at any point prior to post 37 (on the first page) did Meat complain about the knife not being as described or question the honesty of frankp. However Karda did both - and thus introduced points that were not germane to the issue at hand. Meat himself had said that he had concluded previous deals with frankp and had been quite satisfied - and as I understand it frankp had informed meat through email - prior to the sale or acceptance of funds - that he was not the original buyer of the knife.

Personally when I see someone in a position of authority, with more posts the myself, start calling into question the honesty and integrity of another participant, even I find it hard to go against that person.
 
91wm6 said:
Mods, would it possible for you and Spark to come up with a new membership level for guys like this? Maybe somewhere between gold/platinum and dealer cost wise?
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You mean something like a "profiteer" level membership?
I think the dealer level isn't even appropriate for these type people. My opinion.

This forum is about community and information. The exchange is incidental.
 
jdm666 said:
I appreciate you going back and review the tapes on all out behalfs.

I however note - that not at any point prior to post 37 (on the first page) did Meat complain about the knife not being as described or question the honesty of frankp. However Karda did both - and thus introduced points that were not germane to the issue at hand. Meat himself had said that he had concluded previous deals with frankp and had been quite satisfied - and as I understand it frankp had informed meat through email - prior to the sale or acceptance of funds - that he was not the original buyer of the knife.

Personally when I see someone in a position of authority, with more posts the myself, start calling into question the honesty and integrity of another participant, even I find it hard to go against that person.
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You certainly didn't find it hard in this case. It is abundantly clear to the vast majority of posters here what frankp's position was and is. But yet you chose to defend that "untenable" position and instead question the integrity of the mods and the way that they manage their business on their forum. :rolleyes:
 
i have to disagree with the majority here. i don't think the actions taken by the seller warrant banning, especially before the situation had been resolved. as was stated by both parties and others here , neither was acting from a place of maliciousness and a warning or infraction as well as maybe a place in the hall would have been in order but banning is a bit strong. And bringing up old posts on banned members by MODs comparing current members to them was disrespectful and unobjective at best.:thumbdn:
 
Karda said:
Are you being threatened for having a dissenting opinion on this matter? Has anyone else been threatened for having one?
Your rhetoric sounds nice and all, but it is just a fallacious and untenable as frankp's position of righteousness was.
I'm pretty sure 31hrs is pretty darn moderate.
In the end it wasn't my decision to give this forum, it's membership and moderators a big "screw you".......
If you are one of his "friends" that he spoke of giving him advice, it was pretty poor advice.
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Hi Karda

Unfortunate that we would need to "meet" under these circumstances. I certainly hope I would not face threats or reprisals for having a dissenting position - and I have not seen any yet nor do I expect to.

While I appreciate that you view my opionions as rhetoric, I certainly don't. Having been in a good many situations such as this (as a buyer, seller, and moderator) I would have preferred to have seen as little public intervention from moderators as possible.

While I wholeheartedly feel that you have a job to do to ensure the forum is "safe" from thieves and predators - any time you take a public stand as to the culpability or guilt of a member on the forum it is tantamount to passing a judgment that most individuals will not argue against.

Given that you have/had such strong opinions on the conduct of frankp, IMHO these would have been best communicated to him in private either through email or PM.

As mentioned previously, while Meaty actualy spoke up for frankp's past behaviuor learned through previous dealings of the two, you chose to publicly call into question the honesty of frankp - whether it was on Meaty behalf or not - it is at that point that public opinion on the matter shifted almost fully against the seller. It has always been my understanding that moderators were here to ensure that topics such stayed on point - and there be as little rhetoric and mudslinging as possible - not to provide new points on which to continue the argument and vilify the participants.

In general I feel you guys do a fantastic job policing the forum - as it were - however in this case, for whatever reason, I personally feel you went a little over board.

Anyways, it's obvious to me that this horse is long dead - so I will quit beating it - I can only hope a little of my rhetoric sinks in.

JD
 
jdm666 said:
Hey Paul

While i don't disagree that frankp chose an untenable position in hopes of winning what i can only surmize was a piric victory, I can only wonder that opinions would have been more moderate and less venemous had the moderators acted in a more "moderate" fashion.

Having been a moderator on another extremely large forum, I learned how quickly my personal opinion could sway the opinion of the group - right or wrong as it may be.

Contiuned threats (and now action) by Karda to ban frankp and the ongoing references to Lui Kang type behavior all but garaunteed that the general membership would not "step out of line" and question the opinion / decision of those who hold the keys to the promised land (so to speak).

Personally, I find it hard not to believe that a number of other members will now keep silent in cases where they feel they have honestly been wronged for fear that this type of action be taken against them - and I don't believe that is good for anyone.

JD

PS - you still over on TZ? After I got my DSSD I basically lost interest in getting a new watch lol.
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Hi JD,

We are gonna have to agree to disagree on the moderator action here.... The OP forced their hand... No loss. RE the DSSD, I can understand your loss of interest. After my Moon watch and SD I have been on a watch moratorium.

Stay in touch

Best
P
 
I vilified no one. He vilified himself by his own deeds and typed words.
I did communicate privately with both parties. Only one chose to listen.
To be honest, I wasn't even going to participate here. I actually only posed questions that I had concerning the matter.
Only when it became quite clear that frank was bent on holding meats money and property hostage did I take to the act of moderating.
I then consulted with my peers who were on duty and voiced my opinion, which in the end was agreed with.
It came down to consensus that frank either does the right thing or he is not welcome here.
He chose his own path.
 
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Great job mods, you are all more patient than I could ever be. I do feel a little slighted by those who attack members who prefer to buy, sell, and trade. I take great pride in buying from, selling to, and trading with my fellow BladeForum members. Maybe we could all ease up on those who take pride in taking part in these activities. I prefer to read what others have to say instead of always adding my 2 cents in the various forums. I'm sure there are many who prefer to read and keep their newbie mouths zipped until they have a lil more time on the site or something to say.. If one were to look at my posts and others like me they could easily come to the conclusion we do nothing but sell, buy, or trade (Flip knives). The members activity/ posts does not take into acct the numerous hours ones spends reading and appreciating others knowledge and opinions. Just a lil food for thought.
 
RecalcitrantAmerican said:
Great job mods, you are all more patient than I could ever be. I do feel a little slighted by those who attack members who prefer to buy, sell, and trade. I take great pride in buying from, selling to, and trading with my fellow BladeForum members. Maybe we could all ease up on those who take pride in taking part in these activities. I prefer to read what others have to say instead of always adding my 2 cents in the various forums. I'm sure there are many who prefer to read and keep their newbie mouths zipped until they have a lil more time on the site or something to say.. If one were to look at my posts and others like me they could easily come to the conclusion we do nothing but sell, buy, or trade (Flip knives). The members activity/ posts does not take into acct the numerous hours ones spends reading and appreciating others knowledge and opinions. Just a lil food for thought.
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Well said......
 
Holy smokes where the hell was I when all this happened......ohhh I know buying and selling knives!!!!!! LOL

I think the mods did well in the sense if product was not advertised then money should have refunded. I find it very odd if the seller received a $1000+ knife he would not have checked the crap out of it. Man I got a lil spyderco I checked everything when it arrived and that was $60. Standard procedures people!!!

Quick question tho why if FrankP was banned his username still shows as basic member? I know he was a gold member before I almost bought a couple of knives off him
 
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Jesus. I now have a much greater understanding of just how patient the mods have to be. Imo, After reading all this, is that you guys (Rev, Karda, Esav etc.) exhibit the patience of Job while banging your heads on your keyboards. I don't envy the mods AT ALL, and I will endeavor to try harder to make your jobs easier.
This is the only case I can think of where having Big Brother looking over your shoulder is a great thing. Cheers.
 
WOW!!! I just read all 12 pages of this. I don't post much, but this reminds me of the old saying, "You can be Happy or You can be Right!" It seems like this was a Lose/Lose situation all the way around.
Maybe this should be required reading for all new members. Just my .02
 
Spoiler alert guy gets banned on page 11... 3rd comment. I almost missed it I was getting more popcorn **3D shades on!!**

Seriously I almost did after page 8 I was just fast forwarding lol
 
I'm not going to outright disagree with this as I'm sure there are times that it is true. That said, people that are genuinly into knives tend to want to talk about them, ask questions, pat backs etc. that means you spend time out in the forum proper and not just buying and selling. Those that do just buy and sell tend to have a similar attitude when things go wrong to the one we saw here with FrankP while community minded members tend to be able to sort things out and stay part of this foums membership. As has been said already by a few people in this thread when things are going well everyone is happy and having a great time, it's when things go wrong you really see who you're dealing with. :)

RecalcitrantAmerican said:
Great job mods, you are all more patient than I could ever be. I do feel a little slighted by those who attack members who prefer to buy, sell, and trade. I take great pride in buying from, selling to, and trading with my fellow BladeForum members. Maybe we could all ease up on those who take pride in taking part in these activities. I prefer to read what others have to say instead of always adding my 2 cents in the various forums. I'm sure there are many who prefer to read and keep their newbie mouths zipped until they have a lil more time on the site or something to say.. If one were to look at my posts and others like me they could easily come to the conclusion we do nothing but sell, buy, or trade (Flip knives). The members activity/ posts does not take into acct the numerous hours ones spends reading and appreciating others knowledge and opinions. Just a lil food for thought.
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We may not always agree, but most of us are here to share information on knives. We are knife enthusiasts who sometimes buy, sell or trade. Frankp (who now sleeps with the fishes) came here not to be a contributing member, but to buy and sell (see his top areas of posting). When greed is your motive, you will do anything, even destroy your reputation. The mods acted like heroes, IMO, and sent him packing where he couldn't do more harm. I like this place even more now.
 
The mods did what they were required to do....no more, no less. Frank chose his path and to blame the mods for pointing out his duck-like qualities(walking and quacking) is patently ridiculous.
 
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