Bark River has taken $16,000 of My Money

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I think people need to keep all this in perspective. It's business and it got worked out. I don't know if any of you have problems collecting payment from companies you supply goods or services to, but it's ugly trying to pry your money out of them sometimes. I've seen a lot worse than anything I'm reading about here. I resigned from one company, and a couple of years later I heard the VP Operations was killed, shot in the back by his girlfriend. The way I hear it, no one at the company was too busted up over it. Mike's a saint compared to lots of people at companies I've worked for. If you're foaming at the mouth over Mike, you're living a blessed and sheltered life.
 
shunsui said:
I think people need to keep all this in perspective. It's business and it got worked out.

. . .

Mike's a saint compared to lots of people at companies I've worked for. If you're foaming at the mouth over Mike, you're living a blessed and sheltered life.
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What about the bigger perspective? Beyond SS getting his money back, that larger view has emerged as the most important element in this thread. It reveals that there's a pretty long history of questionable business/financial practices by Mike Stewart. Just focusing on this incident isn't perspective. shunsui, you might revise your saint comment if you read the whole thread and investigate some of the channels off the main river. Here I'm not talking about the petty comments or the silly accusations. Some of the revelations have substance.
 
Everyone can say it's a pile on or what ever. Deal in facts. Everyone who so adimently defends MS does so with Opinion. SS couldn't sell this, SS didn't have web presence, SS is vindictive ect ect. READ CAREFULLY. IF THOSE STIPULATIONS WHERE NOT IN THE CONTRACT THEY ARE OF NO PERTINENCE TO THIS ISSUE. Some here seem to be so completely ignorant of contract law 101 it's funny. Every reason stated by MS on his own forum is speculative. No reason stated was in the contract. Not in the contract, of no value!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If Mike had a valid reason, I doubt a cahiers check would have been issued. Your personal impression of Mike is of no value. Look at the facts!!! Contract made, Payment recieved, product not delivered, reasons for nondelivery not stated in contract, reasons given have no legal bearing!!!!!!! Shake off the cool aid and deal in facts.
 
This thread has turned into another them against us affair. I can understand that to a point, but I really don't see why people have to get so riled up. If you want to keep supporting BRKT after all this, or you have decided not to, there is no reason to attack those that have taken the opposite stance to yours. Read the pertinent information that is here and make up your own mind as to what you are going to do, and let others do the same without attacking their character.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
This thread has turned into another them against us affair. I can understand that to a point, but I really don't see why people have to get so riled up. If you want to keep supporting BRKT after all this, or you have decided not to, there is no reason to attack those that have taken the opposite stance to yours. Read the pertinent information that is here and make up your own mind as to what you are going to do, and let others do the same without attacking their character.
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I don't quite see it the same way, Keith. Nor do I see a "fratricidal dogpile," to use Esav's phrase. Where is the abundance of character attacks exactly? There is some pettiness here and there, but how is this thread any more hostile than, say, the recent thread around Gravelface's situation?

I do understand why folks are riled up though. Some have been privy to MS's dealings for a long time now. Others have a fond attachment to his products. There are bound to be some theatrics in a thread like this one.
 
Guyon said:
I don't quite see it the same way, Keith. Nor do I see a "fratricidal dogpile," to use Esav's phrase. Where is the abundance of character attacks exactly?
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Posts that say things like, "It's good to know where you stand on this type of matter. It lets me know about whether you are someone I would ever want to deal with.", are attacks on that persons character. Also calling people drama fags and moral fags, or alluding to Ken taking bribes from BRKT. There have been many others, but I don't feel like searching this whole thread to find them.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
Posts that say things like, "It's good to know where you stand on this type of matter. It lets me know about whether you are someone I would ever want to deal with.", are attacks on that persons character. Also calling people drama fags and moral fags, or alluding to Ken taking bribes from BRKT. There have been many others, but I don't feel like searching this whole thread to find them.
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Those are a few silly posts in a thread that now has 606 replies. Proportionally, they probably represent around the average for silly posts in a GB&U thread.

Yes, the thread has gone pretty far astray from the original issue, but I still hold that Mike Stewart's past actions are relevant here.

Bladeandbarrel said:
Even Hitler has thousands of apologists.
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Well, add one more silly post. Bad business dealings are hardly genocide.
 
Guyon said:
Those are a few silly posts in a thread that now has 606 replies. Proportionally, they probably represent around the average for silly posts in a GB&U thread.

Yes, the thread has gone pretty far astray from the original issue, but I still hold that Mike Stewart's past actions are relevant here.



Well, add one more silly post. Bad business dealings are hardly genocide.
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Lots of people think OJ was innnocent too.
 
Guyon said:
Have you paid attention to anything I've posted here in this thread? Or are you just flailing out of context at this point? :p
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The world is full of apologists for various reasons. The knife business, more than most is full of personality cults that despite overwhelming evidence can rarely see the flaws of their heroes. Take Strider for example.
 
Character is revealed by one's actions in response to adversity, more than by actions taken at leisure and under positive circumstances. Enron gave tons of $$ to charity when it was flying high.
 
Guyon said:
Those are a few silly posts in a thread that now has 606 replies. Proportionally, they probably represent around the average for silly posts in a GB&U thread.
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Like I posted, there are many more, but I'm not going to take the time to find them for you. I'm sure you could locate them yourself if you wanted to.

My point is, what Mike did in his business dealings is relevant. Going after people, because they support Mike, or don't support him, isn't.
 
Bladeandbarrel said:
The world is full of apologists for various reasons. The knife business, more than most is full of personality cults that despite overwhelming evidence can rarely see the flaws of their heroes. Take Strider for example.
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You really don't have a clue where I stand on the issue of Mike Stewart, do you? You might take the time to read some of my posts here instead of using every reply as an opportunity to preach to the choir. If you simply want to throw out ideas, then my posts might not be the ones to which you want to respond. Doing so makes you appear to be a person who (a) has not read the thread and (b) is allowing his past with Mike Stewart to interfere with logical discourse.

Put simply... I am not an apologist for Mike Stewart.

Keith Montgomery said:
Like I posted, there are many more, but I'm not going to take the time to find them for you. I'm sure you could locate them yourself if you wanted to.
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Keith, I agree with your overall point, but like I said, it's a question of numbers. Maybe there are more negative posts here than your typical GB&U thread. But in a thread of 600+ posts, you might expect more silly posts. If only 4% are negative, that means 25+ posts over the course of the entire thread. If you've read the entire thread, then yes, maybe they start to stand out. But IMO this thread is no worse than usual for GB&U.
 
Bear Claw Chris Lappe said:
Ken, with all do respect, I have to ask a few questions.

How could Mike Stewart be "left holding the bag", when he was already paid for the knives?

His expenses, including materials, time and labor, had already been covered in the agreed upon price had they not?

He could have thrown the knives in a lake and not been out anything couldn't he?
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hey ken, are you going to address this question???

i am not a dealer or a maker, so i may be missing something.....

if Snarlslayer paid in advance, why does it matter to mike stewart if the knives are sold or not???

mike stewart was paid in full, up front no less, so how does it concern him what happens to the knives???

the customer paid for them.....


i really don't understand....would you care to explain???
 
Keith Montgomery said:
Like I posted, there are many more, but My point is, what Mike did in his business dealings is relevant. Going after people, because they support Mike, or don't support him, isn't.
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Yes and no. There are lots of folks around who have been "shouted down" by Mike's supporters. Hear no evil, speak no evil. I think a lot of folks here know what I'm talking about. People have raised issues before, only to be laughed at, derided, had their posts deleted, kicked off forums, etc. etc. What I'm seeing here, imo, is a reaction to things that have occurred elsewhere, not just in this thread. People are letting off some steam because they have been shouted down by a cult mentality at other times/places. And that cult mentality has been part of the business plan. It's all about money. Just follow the money.
 
Just to bring up a point I asked about earlier (kind of relates to the dogpile).

People get accused of dogpiling, yet a lot of the negative posts has links to info, info on what paper archives to look in on what dates, etc (I know these aren't the guys Esav said were dogpiling) where to find evidence of what they speak.

The guys defending Mike Stewart only have secret meeting with unspecified people to point to.

Seriously, if there is a side to this that somehow, gives some justification to Mike's actions, why won't even his supporters give the evidence. I, for one, am open to hearing it.

Until something like that comes about, I'm going to go with this analysis:
Mike just didn't like Snarl's business model, decided to not sell him the product (already paid for). Snarl had disappeared, I think Mike figured he could get the product out and get the profits before Snarl reappeared. Unfortunately Snarl reappeared too early for that plan, and went public wanting his refund. Mike got riled and his gut reaction was "F**k him, he can wait.", and made the bad business decision of going with that. Mike has since refunded the money. Now I notice that the Kepharts are on sale at various distributors that are not listing them as preorders, so it seems Mike DID NOT pay early, he did wait until the knives were at the distributors.

Do any of Mike's supporters have reasons -- besides secret meetings in dark rooms with cloaked individuals that they can't speak about -- as to why I'm being too hard on Mike?

If so, I'd like to hear it.

And before I get accused of defamation, let me remind everyone that I DID previously say that as a customer my dealings with Mike and BRKT have always been top notch, it was his apparent business practices I don't like. If I'm wrong about his business practices, by all means let me know, and let me know WHY.
 
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