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Batoning: an article on proper technique!
- Thread starter Plainsman
- Start date
Good article. Another reason why I wont ever own another Mora but thats a different thread and has been done to death.
I use to baton with great care until I found quality knives. Know I just have at it without a care in the world. Having near indestructable tools allows you to get on with the job at hand with supreme confidence.
Trust your life tough gear is all I buy.
Skam
I use to baton with great care until I found quality knives. Know I just have at it without a care in the world. Having near indestructable tools allows you to get on with the job at hand with supreme confidence.
Trust your life tough gear is all I buy.
Skam
- Joined
- May 27, 2006
- Messages
- 2,325
Skammer,
Why do you continually try to change peoples mind, why do you even care?
I know that you love Busse knives, that's awesome, I am sure they are fantastic tools. Please stop the constant diatribe against everything else, if I ever go to the woods and die because I didn't have what ever it is you think I should. I promise I will come back as a ghost and tell you that you were right all along, it is not personal skills but amount of many spent that makes the difference in the woods. Chris
Why do you continually try to change peoples mind, why do you even care?
I know that you love Busse knives, that's awesome, I am sure they are fantastic tools. Please stop the constant diatribe against everything else, if I ever go to the woods and die because I didn't have what ever it is you think I should. I promise I will come back as a ghost and tell you that you were right all along, it is not personal skills but amount of many spent that makes the difference in the woods. Chris
I don't normally use my knives to baton, since I love swinging a good axe. 
But sometimes, it's fun to do things differently. If you baton really carefully, you can actually do it with a SAK. I tried, and didn't break my little SAK Ranger. Did break the wood, though, and made a good fire with it.
But sometimes, it's fun to do things differently. If you baton really carefully, you can actually do it with a SAK. I tried, and didn't break my little SAK Ranger. Did break the wood, though, and made a good fire with it. There are good steel other than Busse that are affordable. Last time
i checked this was a forum. Choose to read, believe or not but stop whining in my ear. Pick a side and state your purpose.
There are many reasons for success in dire circumstances.
Skill
Experience
Personality
Luck
Temperment
Equipment
Will
Some play larger roles than others in any given situation. It should be the goal to eliminate the equipment element of the formula by having gear that will see you through. It would truly suck to loose life and or limb when all aspects are covered but equipment has failed you.
Sometimes it does come down to equipment quality. To think not is foolhardy.
As this is a forum you certainly have the right to disagree:thumbup:
As for why do I care. Looking for and dragging lifeless or broken bodies out of nowhere is something I dont enjoy. I guess its a crusade, my bad.
Skam
But sometimes, it's fun to do things differently. If you baton really carefully, you can actually do it with a SAK. I tried, and didn't break my little SAK Ranger. Did break the wood, though, and made a good fire with it.
Did the same 2 weeks ago. Very very carefully.
Skam
- Joined
- May 27, 2006
- Messages
- 2,325
I'm sorry I didn't realize we have to have sides, if so, I choose blue.
Skammer, didn't mean to start a war, we all already know where you stand, you are constantly driving your good gear point home. The only thing I wish you would realize is that "good" is subjective and applies to your purpose, perhaps not everyones. Chris
Your very welcome Stryker D!
If you get a chance, click on the Cabin link under my sig line...I think you'd find the conversations interesting and less argumentative!
I see my sig didn't show up, here's the link!
http://p066.ezboard.com/bplainsmanscabin
If you get a chance, click on the Cabin link under my sig line...I think you'd find the conversations interesting and less argumentative!
I see my sig didn't show up, here's the link!
http://p066.ezboard.com/bplainsmanscabin
Or a Bark River, since that's what the author actually broke without intending to, right?
- Joined
- Oct 8, 1998
- Messages
- 8,917
Because it's all destructive people have.
Why is this thread a reason not to ever buy a Mora again? I've batoned with them for years and never damaged a single one. You just have to work within the capabilities of the knife, that's all. If it's thin and flexible like a Mora, trying to baton tough, knotty hardwood might bend the blade. If you're aware of these things and keep them in mind as you're selecting your firewood there really shouldn't be any issues.
You should listen to your own advice.
I dont think the intended purpose of the test was to prove to everyone Mora's are bad. They were chosen as good, affordable quality knives that would be a good benchmark to test from. So if he chose Busses and Chris Reeves knives and broke them would you not buy them.
Every knife can be broken, they just have different limits. I agree with the implication that getting a knife capable of withstanding more than you're ever likely to throw at it is wise to do, but that doesn't discount the usefulness of other knives IMO.
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2007
- Messages
- 9,786
I read this article a few weeks ago and enjoyed it as well.
The intended purpose was to demonstrate why knives tend to break at the junction of the handle/tang when they are batoned "incorrectly".
The author used mora's because they were cheap to perform tests on not because they break easily. In fact, in trying to prove his theory, the author failed to break the moras that he was intending to break through bad technique. He did however show that the bad technique caused a bending of the tang within the handle after dismantling it, weakening the knife. In my mind, the mora's performed exemplary here!
Sorry to paraphrase - but for those who didn't fully read the article here is the summary on what the author refers to as bad technique for batoning:
1) it occurs after the knife is driven into the wood past the top of the blade forcing you baton either the tang or tip of the blade protruding out the sides of the wood
2) the bad technique occurs when the knife is angled, such that the tip is elevated compared to the handle relative to the ground
3) the problem occurs when the tip of the knife is batoned while pressure is applied to the handle with the other hand. This forms a lever that puts undo pressure on the knife at the blade/tang junction
4) the author indicates that there is no problem when the knife batoned while keeping it level or parallel to the ground
Interestingly, the author sets up the article discussing full tang versus partial/hidden tang knives. He seems to advocate that the issue of higher strength of full tang knives does not come into play under most field usage and lamments some of the advantages of hidden tangs (e.g. additional corrosion resistance of fully covered tang, comfort, aesthetics, ect.). However, he doesn't seem to make any conclusions about this at the end of the article, rather, he gets sidetracked into the bad baton technique discussion.
I'm not sure if the example knives, other than the Bark River Rogue, he refers to as having been documented to break at the tang/blad junction during batoning all reflect partial tangs or if some reflect full tangs.
The intended purpose was to demonstrate why knives tend to break at the junction of the handle/tang when they are batoned "incorrectly".
The author used mora's because they were cheap to perform tests on not because they break easily. In fact, in trying to prove his theory, the author failed to break the moras that he was intending to break through bad technique. He did however show that the bad technique caused a bending of the tang within the handle after dismantling it, weakening the knife. In my mind, the mora's performed exemplary here!
Sorry to paraphrase - but for those who didn't fully read the article here is the summary on what the author refers to as bad technique for batoning:
1) it occurs after the knife is driven into the wood past the top of the blade forcing you baton either the tang or tip of the blade protruding out the sides of the wood
2) the bad technique occurs when the knife is angled, such that the tip is elevated compared to the handle relative to the ground
3) the problem occurs when the tip of the knife is batoned while pressure is applied to the handle with the other hand. This forms a lever that puts undo pressure on the knife at the blade/tang junction
4) the author indicates that there is no problem when the knife batoned while keeping it level or parallel to the ground
Interestingly, the author sets up the article discussing full tang versus partial/hidden tang knives. He seems to advocate that the issue of higher strength of full tang knives does not come into play under most field usage and lamments some of the advantages of hidden tangs (e.g. additional corrosion resistance of fully covered tang, comfort, aesthetics, ect.). However, he doesn't seem to make any conclusions about this at the end of the article, rather, he gets sidetracked into the bad baton technique discussion.
I'm not sure if the example knives, other than the Bark River Rogue, he refers to as having been documented to break at the tang/blad junction during batoning all reflect partial tangs or if some reflect full tangs.
- Joined
- Sep 27, 1999
- Messages
- 3,164
This an interesting thread about a neverending dicotomy which rears its head often on these forums and probably takes up much memory in cyberspace.
It is about technique and sensitivity vs. overbuilt tools to withstand heavy force.
Boxer vs slugger
Internal martial arts vs external martial arts
small knives vs. choppers
mocassins vs combat boots
It is about technique and sensitivity vs. overbuilt tools to withstand heavy force.
Boxer vs slugger
Internal martial arts vs external martial arts
small knives vs. choppers
mocassins vs combat boots
- Joined
- Sep 27, 1999
- Messages
- 3,164
Although Skammer and I often disagree. I think his point is a valid one on this thread.
In an emergency where cutting branches for shelter or for fire is a matter of life and death, a 1/4" thick knife will have less chance of breaking on you.
That said, if you are very well trained you would be LESS likely to lose you sh_t, and can baton skillfully.
In an emergency where cutting branches for shelter or for fire is a matter of life and death, a 1/4" thick knife will have less chance of breaking on you.
That said, if you are very well trained you would be LESS likely to lose you sh_t, and can baton skillfully.