Batoning: an article on proper technique!

His findings were interesting but difficult to extrapolate to all knives everywhere and to all tree limbs everywhere. As Vivi and others have stated, we as a group can recount many anecdotes that might challenge some of his findings.

Still, regardless of how strong or "weak" one perceives a knife to be, as the writer of the article stated, don't try to carry on a conversation while batoning a limb!
 
MG_Saldivar said:
His findings were interesting but difficult to extrapolate to all knives everywhere and to all tree limbs everywhere. As Vivi and others have stated, we as a group can recount many anecdotes that might challenge some of his findings.
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Perhaps while respecting Chrisaloia's issue of not getting back into the 'What do you guys do to break your knives' debate again, it might be worthwhile to summarizes experiences of batoning that lead to breakage as discussed above.

1) Do knives that break during batoning typically occur at the tang/blade junction?
The author argues that the widely used explaination 'Bad Heat Treat'
would result in breaks at random points in the blade.

2) Is there merit to the lever hypothesis? Tip up batoning...

3) Do partial and hidden tang knives break more often during batoning than full tang knives?
 
I have come to the conclusion after a few recent camping trips and skinning some animals, that I'd rather err on the side of robustness than cutting ability in my fixed blades. I always have small sharp folders, so cutting ability is no problem anyway. Even so, I'm not carving balls in cages or anything intricate, my cutting needs are very simple.

Having broken several good quality knives, some through unintentional abuse, some not, I'd rather have something that won't break if I'm careless than something that will carve a toothpick but is delicate.

There are many knives that fall into either category, and there's no need to choose from only one category.

Runningboar, people like skammer (and I) are just tired of hearing the same old line about if you need more than a Mora, you don't know what you're talking about, or are a Rambo wannabe, or something along those lines. That seems to be a constant theme for you and several others on this board.

Having said all that, if all you want is a Mora, go for it. My needs are different, and I'm fine with that.
 
sodak said:
Runningboar, people like skammer (and I) are just tired of hearing the same old line about if you need more than a Mora, you don't know what you're talking about, or are a Rambo wannabe, or something along those lines. That seems to be a constant theme for you and several others on this board.

Having said all that, if all you want is a Mora, go for it. My needs are different, and I'm fine with that.
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You read more into my writing than is there. I could care less what you carry, all I have ever wanted is a reason big robust knives are needed. Chris
 
Another reason why I wont ever own another Mora
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So the author accidentally snapped two expensive Bark Rivers, yet couldn't snap a ten dollar Mora on purpose. And this proves the point of why you will never own another Mora? I don't get it.
 
runningboar said:
You read more into my writing than is there. I could care less what you carry, all I have ever wanted is a reason big robust knives are needed. Chris
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You've been given reasons several times in the past, yet you don't acknowledge them, just keep bringing it up.
 
sodak said:
You've been given reasons several times in the past, yet you don't acknowledge them, just keep bringing it up.
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At the risk of getting into a my dad can beat up your dad flame war. I haven't brought anything up but Skammer sure has and does every chance he gets.

You are 100% right about me not acknowledging digging for water or prying boulders off my leg as legitimate reasons, as a matter of fact I haven't heard any reasons that convince me.

I know what I have written, I think you need to go back and research my posts. I started the infamous how do you break your knives thread, and am still catching flak for it. Chris
 
I'm not going back and researching anything. I know what's been written also. You'll find some very good answers in that "breaking knives" post and others as well.

Skammer, as usual, brings up some very good points.
 
Chris,
You should know that you'll be sorry when the zombies come. Small blades are useless for decapitation. Though if Dead Rising is any indication, they can be killed with teddy bears if enough effort is given.

Sodak,
I think most small knife advocates also carry a hatchet and/or saw if they are going to be out for a while. This leads to having a tool that can out-chop/saw a big knife and another that can out-cut a big knife. A lot of people just can't imagine why you would carry a tool that did several things poorly, instead of carrying the proper tools for the job.
 
I have no problem with folks who enjoy batoning as a hobby. It makes sense for them to buy knives that they can whale the daylights out of without fear of breaking them. As an old codger who has used the same fixed blade for well over thirty years and never found the need to baton it, never broken it, never died because I failed to split wood with it, spent many years woodsrunning, camping, canoing, hunting and fishing... I just don't feel the desire to own a knife that is made to survive brute force and abuse. Such a knife is not my own idea of a "perfect knife". I view my knives as cutting tools and select them for the tasks I require of them, and have learned to perform those tasks in such a manner that I don't need a knife with a spine as robust as a truck spring.

But I do understand that some people make a hobby of buying such knives and using them in this way. I have no problem with that. Don't ask to borrow my knives or expect to convince me that I will die if I don't own such a knife and we'll get along just fine! :D

Codger :thumbup:
 
kiahs said:
Chris,
Sodak,
I think most small knife advocates also carry a hatchet and/or saw if they are going to be out for a while. This leads to having a tool that can out-chop/saw a big knife and another that can out-cut a big knife. A lot of people just can't imagine why you would carry a tool that did several things poorly, instead of carrying the proper tools for the job.
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Assuming that my knives do several things poorly is your first mistake. They do several things very well. Carrying the proper tools for the job - how many things are you willing to carry?
 
haha, Two tools one for chopping and one for cutting.

Come on guys, not this again.
 
sodak said:
Assuming that my knives do several things poorly is your first mistake.
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I apologise. I didn't even ask what knives you carry. So, what knives do you carry? Just for the record, I have owned and do own bigger knives.

They do several things very well.
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Not trying to argue, but what can they do better than a Mora + Hatchet?

Carrying the proper tools for the job - how many things are you willing to carry?
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Well my Brusletto Balder would keep me comfortable in the woods, but if I knew I was going to be on an extended trip I would at least take a #2 Eriksson and a Fiskars hatchet. Given the option, I would throw a bucksaw blade around my waist and an SAK in my pocket.
 
I don't know how to parse quotes, so I'll answer them in order:

For carry, a variety depending upon which tasks and what I am doing. For a large knife, I will carry a customized Busse SH E, CS Trailmaster, or SR Ratweiler, depending upon the nature of my hike or trip.

A Mora + hatchet is pretty easy to beat. The folder that I carry will outcut a Mora all day long, and still be sharp. If I'm carrying a smaller fixed blade, which I usually am, I have several modified 51200 blades (Marbles, Bark River, Swamp Rat) that will still outcut a Mora, yet have a lot more strength. Moras don't cut that well after you've tried a good full flat grind and properly thinned out edge.

I have a SAK also, with another small folder, perhaps a small FB, but perhaps not. The larger FB's that I've mentioned will easily keep up with my Wetterlings hatchet (tried it a month ago, so I know), and will do *far* more tasks more easily and safer also. So I have either a small folder or FB which run circles around the Mora, and a larger knife which will not only keep up with a hatchet, but also surpass it on many tasks.

I'd even be willing to lose the smaller one. I don't need fine cutting ability in the woods. Making fuzz sticks and tinder just isn't that hard to do.

Codger,

No one's asking you to believe you will die if you don't baton. A lot of us have been using a knife for many years also, I've done all the outdoors tasks you have done and then some.

The bottom line is, just because you can't see using a knife for a specific task doesn't mean that someone else won't need it for that task. To think otherwise is pretty arrogant.
 
sodak said:
Codger,

No one's asking you to believe you will die if you don't baton. A lot of us have been using a knife for many years also, I've done all the outdoors tasks you have done and then some.

The bottom line is, just because you can't see using a knife for a specific task doesn't mean that someone else won't need it for that task. To think otherwise is pretty arrogant.
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Gotta give Codger his due - 30 years with one knife! That's better than most careers and marriages. I lost my SAK after 2 weeks. To me EDC means 'wear the heck did I put that thing?' :rolleyes:

BTW Codger's post was the last thing from arrogant. He stated his piece and indicated twice that others could do whatever they want!
 
sodak said:
I don't know how to parse quotes...

Codger, ...
The bottom line is, just because you can't see using a knife for a specific task doesn't mean that someone else won't need it for that task. To think otherwise is pretty arrogant.
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I do know how to parse quotes. Arrogant? I submit that nowhere in my post did I display arrogance. I allowed six ways from sunday that some people who enjoy the hobby of batoning are most welcome to it and their choice of knives. Where did you read that I was attempting to "diss" your choice of carrying and using whatever knife you choose in whatever manner you chose for whatever task you choose? You want to carry a large knife and cut wrecked cars apart, or build a log home, or carve canoes and totem poles from sequoias, have at it. I submit that I am not the one displaying arrogance here.

Codger
 
How many things are you willing to carry? :D I thought I was arguing against using a big knife for everything, but it seems that you travel with a knife store in tow.

Anyway, I'll reply one point at a time.

I don't know how to parse quotes,
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Click the button that looks like a thought bubble, and copy and paste between the tags.

For a large knife, I will carry a customized Busse SH E, CS Trailmaster, or SR Ratweiler,
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I don't know the specific sizes on those, but of the big knives I've owned, I found my Scrapper 6 and KaBar USMC to be a compromise size.

The folder that I carry will outcut a Mora all day long, and still be sharp.
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But do you baton it? :)

If I'm carrying a smaller fixed blade, which I usually am, I have several modified 51200 blades (Marbles, Bark River, Swamp Rat) that will still outcut a Mora, yet have a lot more strength.
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In the OP, didn't a BR suffer a complete failure where a Mora did not?

Moras don't cut that well after you've tried a good full flat grind and properly thinned out edge.
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True. I own several full flat ground knives. They will easily outcut a scandi grind. I still prefer a Mora for the woods. I find the scandi grind easier to carve with.

The larger FB's that I've mentioned will easily keep up with my Wetterlings hatchet (tried it a month ago, so I know)
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I don't have enough big blade chopping experience to argue that point. I do know hatchets and axes chop pretty well. Almost like they were made for it.

I don't need fine cutting ability in the woods.
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How would you whittle?
 
skammer said:
As for why do I care. Looking for and dragging lifeless or broken bodies out of nowhere is something I dont enjoy. I guess its a crusade, my bad.

Skam
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I Hear you Rambo.It just spoils all the fun don't it.:D
 
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