I bought a 9" Fehrman Final Judgement with the idea that it would be a great survival knife -- baton, clear brush, build a log shelter yada yada yada. It's too big to carry as a contingency and when I go into the woods to cut wood I do have a saw and an axe (and a folder and maybe a small fixed blade). The FJ is a great blade that sees very little use. I already have those other tools so the big compromise gets left behind. Skammer made a different choice, that's why we all have free will.
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Batoning: an article on proper technique!
- Thread starter Plainsman
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I found this to be an interesting thread, has anyone done a study about the effects cold weather might have on batoning, frozen wood, frozen blade steel, and a baton that would be much harder in winter being frozen than it would normaly be in warmer temps?
ITs the one area Mike where I worry the most. I think in that situation more than any other you need to be sure of your steel. I dont hold back in winter any more than summer and haven't had any issues of late.
That said I have snapped actually shattered a couple blades in dead winter.
Its a concern as this is when you need tools that perform the most.
Skam
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I agree totally, I have an ontario 12" machete that I picked up for about 20 bucks, I have been beating the hell out of it for the last 10 years or so and it is still going strong. I did bend the tip a little batoning it through a lighter wood stump, went home and clamped it in a bench vice and straightened it right out. The sheath gave up the ghost a few years back but a little cardboard and duct tape fixed it right up. I have duty tonight but tommorrow I will take some pics to show it off. :thumbup: Chris
:thumbup:
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Mike, I think Chris Janowski wrote an article about this, I think it was in American Survival Guide. (It is scanned in the forums sowhere, either here or in the Busse Forum). He tested a number of knives this way and I think the only fixed blade that perform to his satisfaction, IIRC, of those he tested was a Busse Steel Heart.
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Hi rfbadger - didn't mean to imply disdain, that is why I put the smiley face beside my comment. I was trying corral the thread back to the original topic - a couple of times - but clearly to no effect. Oh well what can you do?
Regarding saws - I do prefer them when taking down limbs or cutting up whole pieces of wood into smaller logs. One can baton through a standing limb, but I do find it awkard. Trying to cut up a small tree on the ground into smaller logs by baton is also not that convenient, especially if the piece has a tendency to roll. I like using the baton mainly to split wood. So I guess I use it like I normally wood a saw/hatchet combination.
I think I'll take your advice. Actually I'm driving to the Kingston area tomorrow to my buddies cottage for the weekend. Hatchet will stay in the truck again. I haven't given up on the hatchet. I'm just experimenting around with batoning technique this summer and trying to gain more confidence in the method through experience.
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Great Point!
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Hi Thomas - the article states that hitting the tip with the baton is not a problem. As long as the blade is straight, i.e. parallel to the ground. The article only states that batoning on the tip while the knife is at an angle relative to the ground (tip up, handle down) does the technique produce heavy stress on the handle.
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Hi kgd. Here's what I was referencing:
He goes on the report that in "most" cases of broken knives the blade was buried in the work
If the situation he describes, blade buried in the work, the hand will not "float" if the point or handle is struck. Unless force down (when hitting point) or up (when striking other end) is applied, the knife may riotate out of the "work" and into you.
So beyond the "correct technique" of hitting straight down into the work, what do we do when the blade is buried and such blows hit the "work"?
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Hi kgd. Here's what I was referencing:
He goers on the report that in "most" cases of broken knives the blade was buried in the work
If the situation he describes, blade buried in the work, the hand will not "float" if the point or handle is struck. Unless force down (when hitting point) or up (when striking other end) is applied, the knife may riotate out of the "work" and into you.
So beyond the "correct technique" of hitting straight down into the work, what do we do when the blade is buried and such blows hit the "work"?
Well I guess the author does have some inconsistencies in his writing. Here was what I based my earlier response to you on:
So basically I take the meaning of what he is trying to say is to try to keep the knife level when batoning. As you indicated correctly, once the knife is past the spine on the wood, you have to put pressure on the handle when batoning the tip to keep the handle from jumping upward. The author implicates that we get carried away in our zeal in holding down the handle, so that we start driving the handle down with our body weight faster than the tip to help the split. We then find outselfs with the angled knife, tip up.
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The one place that was valuable...going...going...
crossada
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i was doing some late fall camping a few years back and found the need to baton. we had gathered some wood during the day for warmth at night when it was really cold. we had sawed up some dead wood from some fallen trees and stacked it up next to the fire.
that night it got really cold, alot colder than expected and i couldn't keep the fire going with our wood pile. when you would put a log on the fire it just wasn't hot enough to burn the moisture out.
i wasn't going to go out and try to find the small stuff in the dark so i grabbed my busse mr. mofo out of my bag. i grabbed a log off the pile for a baton and started in. it was hard to see off of the meager fire light so i couldn't tell if there was knots or anything.
one bigger log in particular gave me some grief. i beat on the spine of the knife but the blade just wasn't splitting the wood out like before. there wasn't much blade left to hit so i moved it closer to the light of the fire to find i had driven the unsharpened choil into the log for the blade width
i was surprised at how tough the knife was after this abuse but there was no damage what so ever. i had to turn the knife over and beat on the underside of the handle to get the blade back out.
i know i can depend on my busse for survival purposes.
that night it got really cold, alot colder than expected and i couldn't keep the fire going with our wood pile. when you would put a log on the fire it just wasn't hot enough to burn the moisture out.
i wasn't going to go out and try to find the small stuff in the dark so i grabbed my busse mr. mofo out of my bag. i grabbed a log off the pile for a baton and started in. it was hard to see off of the meager fire light so i couldn't tell if there was knots or anything.
one bigger log in particular gave me some grief. i beat on the spine of the knife but the blade just wasn't splitting the wood out like before. there wasn't much blade left to hit so i moved it closer to the light of the fire to find i had driven the unsharpened choil into the log for the blade width
i was surprised at how tough the knife was after this abuse but there was no damage what so ever. i had to turn the knife over and beat on the underside of the handle to get the blade back out.
i know i can depend on my busse for survival purposes.
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So I avoid choils in the knives I take backpacking.. . .
one bigger log in particular gave me some grief. i beat on the spine of the knife but the blade just wasn't splitting the wood out like before. there wasn't much blade left to hit so i moved it closer to the light of the fire to find i had driven the unsharpened choil into the log for the blade width
. . .
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I just tried this method out yesterday. I was actually sawing some branches up from an apple tree and I was just doing my thing until I got to the last one and decided to try it out. It was about three feet long and three inches in diameter. Beat the heck out of it on the ground about 5-6 times and it split to the point where I could pull it apart. :thumbup: I didn't try splitting it multiple times though because I was pooped.
As for batoning in the cold, what about warming the knife up before you do it. I read in "An axe to grind," that it should be done with axes when cold. Holding the axe against your body for a minute(while sheathed.) I believe he also says that doing some light chopping for a few minutes will warm it up and then you can start doing some real chopping. It's an axe manual but seems like it could apply to batoning knives.
crossada
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i still don't mind choils on my bigger knives as i don't find they get in the way but for small knives anymore i have come to detest them. i was doing some utility work one day with a busse meaner street. everytime i would go to cut some plastic it would ball up in the choil.
mind you i still don't mind a choil like on a sak but the big ones like on a busse got to go.