Batoning: an article on proper technique!

Okay, yet another contraversial topic brought to the front :)

I found the battoning article very informative. I'll have to try the technique using the methodology. Maybe I'm ignorant here but would a good saw like the gerber folder do just as well if not better and not risk damaging your knife:confused:.

Yeah saws work great, as do axes. They are good tools for cutting logs into smaller chunks. So are big knives!

Hey Guys, not to get all preachy here, but the thread is about batoning and batoning technique. Not whether you like it or not. If you don't baton, you probably shouldn't be posting here (my $0.02 = 0.0193 CDN worth). Of course, threads take a life of their own, but won't you agree that the main premise for arguments taking place in the last two pages have started elsewhere?

I for one would like to bring in yet another contraversial character - Mr. Cliff Stamp, prior to his banning. I don't want to talk about Cliff per se, but just prior to his departure he was making a case that most knives, even those silly Hibon and United Cutlery fantasy blades will survive batoning. To further his case, he used one from United Cutlery I think. Anyway his point was that you don't need a supersteel to perform this activity.

I myself, since joining the forums and learning about batoning have become much more confident in it. The last time I car camped, 4d, the axe stayed in the truck and I used my buck 119 for all of the splitting, food prep, rope cutting and other camp chores. Admittedly, I had to buy split wood (half split - popular, maple) from the park as per their rules. Not once did I feel an urge to grab the axe out of the truck. While less efficient on the larger splits, the knife allowed me to make really precise splits on the smaller pieces which produced better kindling IMHO

The main point I am trying to say is that the 119 held up quite fine at its cutting as well as splitting chores. I didn't even bother to strop it on my belt as it wasn't losing much cutting performance. I did re-touch it up at home after the trip - but that is just something I now like to do.

I do recall a few times making an effort to keep the blade straight when splitting stubborn wood. I had read the article before making the trip, so it was something I was conscious of. I doesn't really put you at a disadvantage to straighten the blade, other then having you pay attention to what is going on. I can see the point of the author though. Try it yourself, when the blade is batoned tip up, there seems to be much more upward thrust into your hand of the handle then when straight.
 
Bored now :yawn:

But seriously a small sharp little blade has its place. It just doesnt have a place in my world of hard use in the outback. I cant count on it, they are too fragile and I need a bigger heavier blade.

Hard to understand for some learning impaired I guess.

Skam

My hard ouback use, I have to count on my knife to get me back to the world, :rolleyes: I'm too tough to use those little pipsqueak knives, I need a real man's knife, I guess for yall little posers those little slivers of a knife might be all right, hahahahah.:D
 
A little knife doesn't necessarily imply a wimp. The one Busse knife I own is a Game Warden with a blade that at .200" is too f'n thick. Busse knows how to make a knife that's thinner, why don't they? What I carry instead is a Fehrman Peace Maker, another non-wimpy small knife. Batoning not a problem within its length limitations.

Rather than batoning a knife though, I'd rather carry an axe. The guys I've gone into the woods with would have laughed their asses off if I'd tried to baton the trees/logs we were working with; a 9" tree was the smallest we'd look at. If you want to cut serious wood, bring a tool designed for cutting serious wood. Anything else you're just playing. My fav class of axe is a 24" cruiser -- double bit with great balance at a length that gives good control and power but is still easy to carry.
 
Chris,

Again,

I use my blade to build hasty shelters and litters, splints, traction devices and start quick fires while leading SAR teams, I do not have time for fragile small tools. I need a do all tool that can be counted on for the least amount of space as I have to hump it in. This just happens to be a large chopper.

If I am car camping any blade will do but this is professional use I am talking about.

I thought you knew this or was this entire thread below just a troll on your part.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=489836

What is it you want out of this thread? State the purpose.

Skam
 
Chris,

Again,

I use my blade to build hasty shelters and litters, splints, traction devices and start quick fires while leading SAR teams, I do not have time for fragile small tools. I need a do all tool that can be counted on for the least amount of space as I have to hump it in. This just happens to be a large chopper.

If I am car camping any blade will do but this is professional use I am talking about.

I thought you knew this or was this entire thread below just a troll on your part.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=489836

What is it you want out of this thread? State the purpose.

Skam


Right back at you brother, what the hell do you want, convince me that I am wrong and hear me say uncle? :rolleyes:

I think OUR purpose anymore is just to annoy the piss out of each other. I know everything you or I are saying is hashed and rehashed and there is zero chance you will convince me to go buy a sharpened leaf spring for a few hundred dollars or that I will convince you to trust yourself to use a lighter knife.

So I give up, what is our purpose, I already tried to call a truce several times, I think you said something to the effect that bantor is fun, now you have used the troll word, were you looking in the mirror when you wrote it. Chris
 
I just wanted to tell you how impressed I am with my F1 knife I used this weekend.
I tried to baton a piece of wood and found out that I was trying to baton the piece I used earlier as baton so I had to do without so I ended up holding the handle and pounding the wood on the ground. Almost like when you chop wood by using the axe upside down.
I really like my F1 but there is just one itsy bitsy thing, there is not much blade to pound on when batoning :)
 
I liked the link :thumbup:

Thank God I have not broken a fixed blade yet, but I can sure see the logic as to how the stress from having the handle lower than the blade edge could could cause an issue.
 
Wow! Did this get to four pages quickly.

Trench Warfare

34 Arrogant Grenade thrown

36 Skammer the Peacemaker:eek:

40 Newbe lobs Rambo Grenade. Welcome to BladeForums - sorta.

57 Silly Gas Grenade (Is it trolling to post that "big" knives do everything poorly? Not if you're kidding, I guess. )

62 Modifed Rambo ("real man") Grenade

64 Nah. Not our Skam. :D

68 Sharpened Leaf Spring Grenade (Careful. That's close to dissing HI khukuri.)


Daring to post on topic, I know, but anyone wonder why an article on batoning technique would fail to mention, even briefly, what to do when the blade is driven flush with the top of the piece of wood? If hitting the tip or near the handle is out, that leaves wedges, yes? Or a full width tang?

(Anyone try cutting halfway through the diameter with a saw and smacking the length of wood against a rock/hard ground/tree to see if it splits lengthways as I have suggested?)
 
Wedges? You mean fashion additional tools that may do the job better? You can do that with a small blade or even a folder. What fun is that? :rolleyes:
 
57 Silly Gas Grenade (Is it trolling to post that "big" knives do everything poorly? Not if you're kidding, I guess. )

Daring to post on topic, I know, but anyone wonder why an article on batoning technique would fail to mention, even briefly, what to do when the blade is driven flush with the top of the piece of wood? If hitting the tip or near the handle is out, that leaves wedges, yes? Or a full width tang?

(Anyone try cutting halfway through the diameter with a saw and smacking the length of wood against a rock/hard ground/tree to see if it splits lengthways as I have suggested?)

1st, yes I was serious(more like a riddle;).)
2nd, I've seen it done...on TV no less.:D Something I will have to try. Nothing like another technique.:thumbup:
 
OK, Shotgun. You were seriously stating that a "big" knife does "everything" "poorly."

Please objectively consider:

Clearing rank vegitation/brambles: people in tropical areas find that a machete does many things well that a 4" knife would do much less efficiently.

Chopping: chopping competition knives seem to chop quite well. I doubt that a 4" knife (My favorite length, by the way.) could win such a competition. So is this evidence that a large knife chops "poorly"?

Centuries of experience: I am not sold on the idea that "The natives always know best," but how do you dismiss centuries of experince with khukuri, parangs, bolos? They are longer/thiner (more machete-like) is some areas and stouter/heavier (more axe-like) in others, but they are nothing like my 4" knife.

Personal protection: It may not be a consideration (Is not really for me.), but bigger is generally better in thsi area as well.

And what (Sorry, Chris) is a "big" knife to you? Width? Length" Thickness?
 
Wedges? You mean fashion additional tools that may do the job better? You can do that with a small blade or even a folder. What fun is that? :rolleyes:
Given the time and dexterity, it would be easy and fun, as I have found.

January in the upper midwest gives perspective on fine motor skills.

Skammer is further north.
 
Kgd
Well excuse me! As if no one get's off topic on these threads. I just asked a question which was apparently was cast off with some distain. Go baton something with your Buck 119 (a good knife incidently).
 
OK, Shotgun. You were seriously stating that a "big" knife does "everything" "poorly."

Please objectively consider:

Clearing rank vegitation/brambles: people in tropical areas find that a machete does many things well that a 4" knife would do much less efficiently.

Chopping: chopping competition knives seem to chop quite well. I doubt that a 4" knife (My favorite length, by the way.) could win such a competition. So is this evidence that a large knife chops "poorly"?

Centuries of experience: I am not sold on the idea that "The natives always know best," but how do you dismiss centuries of experince with khukuri, parangs, bolos? They are longer/thiner (more machete-like) is some areas and stouter/heavier (more axe-like) in others, but they are nothing like my 4" knife.

Personal protection: It may not be a consideration (Is not really for me.), but bigger is generally better in thsi area as well.

And what (Sorry, Chris) is a "big" knife to you? Width? Length" Thickness?
LOL...easy there. I was trying to make the point that for every use that Skammer and the like use their knives for(7-8inchers by 1/4" I'm talkin',) that there are tools that can do these things better. A Samurai sword is a better slicer, a mora is a better wood carver, a hatchet is a better splitter, a prybar is a better...prybar:D etc. The POINT is that next to these tools a big knife IS poor at doing these things. BUT, you can't strap a half ton of tools to your belt. So, there in is the trade off.
 
Nothing easier. And a 9" knife is doubtless better than a 7" for some tasks, just as a 7" is better than a 4" for some tasks. But how does less good = poor?
 
Nothing easier. And a 9" knife is doubtless better than a 7" for some tasks, just as a 7" is better than a 4" for some tasks. But how does less good = poor?

I'm just extrapilating on the argument that a person wouldn't baton because they would have an axe that is designed for it. I'm not saying these knives are necessarily poor, just poor when compared to something else. This isn't a view I share by the way. I've said earlier that I know the good and bad of these knives and I'm personally deciding weather or not to go this route.
 
The POINT is that next to these tools a big knife IS poor at doing these things. BUT, you can't strap a half ton of tools to your belt. So, there in is the trade off.


This is the point entirely. I wouldnt go so far as to say "poor" but less than ideal.

There is no tool that does as much as a larger fixed blade. Its the jack of all trades master of none. And yes its a tradeoff and one I have no choice to make when I have to carry it.

I own axes saws small blades etc... I just cant carry them all.

Its easy to understand when you think about it. At least to me anyway:rolleyes:.

Skam
 
This is the point entirely. I wouldnt go so far as to say "poor" but less than ideal.

There is no tool that does as much as a larger fixed blade. Its the jack of all trades master of none. And yes its a tradeoff and one I have no choice to make when I have to carry it.

I own axes saws small blades etc... I just cant carry them all.

Its easy to understand when you think about it. At least to me anyway:rolleyes:.

Skam

Okay maybe "poor" was a bad choice of words. I was just trying to make a point.
 
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