Batoning Broken Down

Simply put, batoning is a technique that can put significantly more force behind the knife edge than you can typically achieve by just swinging or pressing on the knife edge alone. A bushcraft type knife will not have as much "heft" or inertia behind it is a larger knife or an axe, so this is a method of achieving this for processing wood.

Obviously, this exerts more force on the knife, which inherently raises the risk of breaking the knife. If done smartly, this risk can be minimized and the benefits of batoning can still be gained.

JGON
 
CM_Rick said:
Neeman,

The point I make about teaching a 9 year old how to baton is about how safe I believe batoning is. I go by the books in scouting. At age 9, or 3rd grade, we teach the boys how to use a knife, COMPLETELY. This means I teach them how to do everything with a knife properly and safely. Later, at age 12 we teach them how to use an axe, hatchet, and saw safely and effectively.

I really don't know where you are going here. You obviously have a lot of scouting experience, and I think we might teach a little differently. Doesn't mean either of us are wrong. I teach them to be skillful and careful with a knife first. Then when they get an axe in their hands, they will already have an idea of how the wood is going to react when worked.
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Rick,

I am not questioning battoning.

Where am I going?
The main point I am making is from my experience with younger children, it is not safe for a 9 year old to be banging on big sharp knives stuck into the end of a small log.
They have not developed enough motor control or strenght in the hands, nor the judgement to see what can go wrong.

You say yes, I say no it is not safe.
 
sicily02 said:
Breakage is a con of it no doubt. I have done it with a RAT 7 in D-2. Took a 3" or so section out of the blade it self.

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Wow! Osage? That probably helped in the breaking huh?
 
That and Ontario's heat treatment has been known to be somewhat inconsistent in the past. And D2 isn't necessarily the best steel to be batoning anyhow...seems like if it's done just a little too hard then it likes to chip out when struck.
 
I tend to use SKS or AK bayonets when I've done it, works fine and I don't feel guilty!
 
neeman,

So 9 year olds have the motor skills to participate in motorsports, full contact sports, water sports, shooting sports (archery), and any other number of perfectly legal things to do, but don't have the motor skills for safely batoning a 3-4" fixed blade through a 1-1 1/2" diameter round "stick" to make kindling or a fire-board (all while under adult supervision)? I'm not following you. I'm not overly mad or anything, but I don't like the idea that you are saying that I am not teaching safety. I never said anything about giving a kid a 9" knife and a 7" round log and saying "have at it, boy." That would be unsafe. Safety is my number one concern.

At any rate... breakage in a knife of sufficient size is due to manufacturing defects that are impossible to detect with the naked eye. Micro-fractures are a reality and can be detected. There is a piece of equipment that basically works like an ultra sound, that can identify them. When I worked in iron work I was fortunate enough to see it done on some old steel. It is actually pretty cool to see. This is very expensive to have performed and totally impractical for a knife. In my conclusion, buy a knife suited for the task that is made by a company with a stand up no questions asked warranty. Any such company already understands that micro fracs are undetectable and breakage is inevitable. But, as we all have seen, it is a less hit and more miss. They are not common enough to "worry" about them in every single knife made. One of the first things you should do with a new blade is baton it. If it breaks send it back, if not you're good to go.
 
Good post CM Rick. Well said. The youth can handle a lot of different cutting tasks even at young ages. On the farm most kids by 7 or so have knives and are helping the older ones with cutting chores around the farm.
I know I did, and have seen it, and still see it to this day.
Again it comes down to showing how to use the tools. Then there is practice. It does not take that long to become very good with a knife or axe or driving a tractor at a very young age.

Bryan
 
Here is my input and how/what I do...

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This was a nice day... dry... but why not practice those skills that I might need one day?

Ski
 
sicily02 said:
Good post CM Rick. Well said. The youth can handle a lot of different cutting tasks even at young ages. On the farm most kids by 7 or so have knives and are helping the older ones with cutting chores around the farm.
I know I did, and have seen it, and still see it to this day.
Again it comes down to showing how to use the tools. Then there is practice. It does not take that long to become very good with a knife or axe or driving a tractor at a very young age.

Bryan
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Thank you, Bryan.

I'd like to see some pics from all of us using batoning to produce a functioning piece. Make it your best or most unique. It can be whatever, anything from good kindling (for begginers) to shelters or cooking pieces. I'm going to get started on mine.
 
CM Rick, Great thought. I look forward to seeing what pics are posted in this thread now.
I may even throw in a pic or 2 also:D

Bryan
 
For my batoning project, I am going to start a fire and fashion a bowl with a spoon. I will then proceed to make chili on another fire and consume it with my bowl and spoon. I will baton the fire wood, kindling, and rough out the bowl and spoon. I'll burn out the bowl. My schedule is a little cramped so it might take me a little while to get it done. I will have a complete set of pics, showing progression, from beginning to end.

What about you guys?
 
For what its worth, I just batoned a bunch of 4" diameter pieces of frozen beech with my stick tank scagel production knife this weekend. I had a 3.3lb head GB American Felling axe, but it was 20 paces away and my knife was on my belt :D Worked out all fine!

The GB was put to good use wacking some dead standing trees down....No reason why you can't have an axe and still use your knife to baton with!
 
sorry guys but i would never baton my knives. you wanna chop use an axe. And for the boy scout leader. My leader would have permanently revoked my right to carry a knife if i had smacked it with a stick or mallet.
 
Kiltknifeguy said:
And for the boy scout leader. My leader would have permanently revoked my right to carry a knife if i had smacked it with a stick or mallet.
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Well, BSA already revoked the right for scouts to carry fixed blades in many parts....Lets say that their instruction has more to do with politically correct these days then survival....
 
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