Be Honest... Would you pay $625 for this knife?

[RedLynx]

So we're already up to $15 for the Schrade I think. I'd chip in another $5 as well and I'd be willing to order the knife if Mr. Winkler would allow me to just ship it directly to his home or place of business.

Side note: I also have nothing against Schrade and have a couple of great beater knives from them, as well as some of their older stuff.

At this point while I don't expect the test to change minds, I'd like to see it as well.

I'm betting that even if the outcome is Winkler knife on top, Mr. Winkler will find some good things to say about the Schrade, when all is said and done.

 

[Sikael]

I Totally respect Mr. Winkler's tact and character in this matter. But I will also not hold him to this challenge. Throughout this thread at every point a question, statement or challenge has been presented to the naysayer in question and a goal about to be scored, the goal post has simply been picked up and moved and I see no reason that that would cease just because of Mr. Winklers involvement. I dont need him to prove anything to me. And the person who should be proving something will just change the rules as we progress to skirt all accountability. I dont think its worth wasting Mr. Winklers time and sacrifice of a knife for a complete and total lost cause.

Of course you don't, and neither do I, or most of the people reading this thread. Mr. Winkler made the challenge of his own volition, and doesn't seem the type to be goaded into an uncomfortable situation by critics or trolls. That said, I'll no doubt forget this thread ever existed in a few days, but my impression of WKII will still have been improved (it was already largely favorable). This is mostly due to the way the maker has handled criticism. Few makers would acquit themselves so well... or bother to respond at all.

 

[craytab]

Of course you don't, and neither do I, or most of the people reading this thread. Mr. Winkler made the challenge of his own volition, and doesn't seem the type to be goaded into an uncomfortable situation by critics or trolls.

Purple is right, the test would never be accepted by the nay sayer(s). That said, I would still like to see it and it sounds like Mr. Winkler is getting back into Blade Comps so it might be useful practice! Looks like we may be up to $20!

That said, I'll no doubt forget this thread ever existed in a few days, but my impression of WKII will still have been improved (it was already largely favorable). This is mostly due to the way the maker has handled criticism. Few makers would acquit themselves so well... or bother to respond at all.

Besides Mr. Winkler's stand up accountability and professionalism in this thread I know at least one other thing that will stick with me for a long time

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Purple is right, the test would never be accepted by the nay sayer(s). That said, I would still like to see it and it sounds like Mr. Winkler is getting back into Blade Comps so it might be useful practice! Looks like we may be up to $20!



Besides Mr. Winkler's stand up accountability and professionalism in this thread I know at least one other thing that will stick with me for a long time

+1. I'll throw in $5 just to see the results.

 

[Sikael]

Purple is right, the test would never be accepted by the nay sayer(s). That said, I would still like to see it and it sounds like Mr. Winkler is getting back into Blade Comps so it might be useful practice! Looks like we may be up to $20!

Besides Mr. Winkler's stand up accountability and professionalism in this thread I know at least one other thing that will stick with me for a long time

Sure, why not? If Mr. Winkler's cool with it, I'll throw in 5$. No expectations or demands attached, and the 'when, where, how, and if' is completely up to him.

 

[craytab]

I believe that makes $30. One more to pay for shipping?

 

[RedLynx]

Sure, why not? If Mr. Winkler's cool with it, I'll throw in 5$. No expectations or demands attached, and the 'when, where, how, and if' is completely up to him.

Exactly. I'm not even interested in proving which is better beyond academic value and I have no designs on trying to win the camp knife, I'm just interested to see a knife test.

 

[Ken44]

Keep going until you get enough $ for a Busse

edit- I meant for the testing. Didn't mean get a Busse instead of a Winkler. I think most knew what I meant, and knew I was kidding, but did this edit anyway just in case,lol.

 

[Czechmate]

Unless one is a metallurgist, I don't think you could just inherently know that 1095 is better than 80crv2. According to several posters, it apparently has very similar propertied to 1080.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1207578-TTT-chart-for-80CrV2

It seems as if the steel used in this knife is specifically for overall toughness and that was demonstrated earlier in the thread by a video showing a guy essentially stabbing a rock with his knife with no blade damage, just dulling. The steel doesn't have to be superior to whatever your using to justify the price. Considering this is BLADE forums I would assume most people use knives here as opposed to not.

It ranks higher than 1080; it's known as 1080+...

There's at least two Canadian makers who are using 80crv2 on both large and small blades with excellent results (they are both heavy users of knives; not building collectibles). :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


Kudos to Mr. Winkler for keeping his responses respectful. :thumbup:

 

[RedLynx]

Keep going until you get enough $ for a Busse

In that case, I can't be responsible for shipping the knife to Mr. Winkler.

I'm sorry to say it wouldn't get shipped...

 

[Insipid Moniker]

In that case, I can't be responsible for shipping the knife to Mr. Winkler.

I'm sorry to say it wouldn't get shipped...

I'd ship it. He DID say he'd ship it back after.

 

[shqxk]

I would love to see how Busse's INFI stack up against Winkler's 80CRV2 :thumbup:

 

[craytab]

I would love to see how Busse's INFI stack up against Winkler's 80CRV2 :thumbup:

Sure, who wouldn't, but that is not the spirit of the challenge.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

I would love to see how Busse's INFI stack up against Winkler's 80CRV2 :thumbup:

I strongly suspect that in a contest between a Winkler and Busse chopper it would come down to geometry and mass much more than steel. I haven't any experience with either, though, so it's hard to speculate.

 

[Boris74]

Boris74:

It seems like you have a personal think against me. I hope that in the past I have not offended you in some way. If I have I am sincerely sorry. If you just have a vendetta against what you consider to be expensive knives, get over it. There is a lot of room for a lot of knives in this world and if I get a share of the market, good for me. I provide jobs to 10 other people making knives. In today’s economy I feel this should be praised rather than challenged. I get enough of that from the government.

I also fear that regardless of the outcome you will again challenge how my tests are handled and will feel I was unfair in the testing. I assure you that any testing I do is to advance my knowledge so Winkler Knives can make a better product. I make no challenges to other knife manufactures as I respect them all and hope they all succeed in their market. However when challenged I will step up and put my knives on the line. Either way I win. If my knife performs better I win. If it is lacking in some way, I will learn and make changes and improve.

80crv2:

It is very narrow minded to give 100% credit to the quality of a knife by the steel it is made from. There are many factors that come into play.
• Steel grade
• Overall Knife design
• Blade geometry
• Edge geometry
• Handle design
• Heat treating
Inferior heat treating can make the best steel unusable. A knowledgeable maker can take a less than desirable grade of steel and make a high functioning knife.
• Heat treating method (We use salt)
• Soaking temperature
• Soaking time
• Quench medium (Again we use salt)
• Quench temperature
• Quench time
• Tempering temperature
• Tempering time

All these factors can alone make a major difference in the end results. Boris, if you have/had a knife made from 80crv2 and it lacked performance all I can deduct is something was wrong with the knife not the steel. I know 80crv2 steel will perform to high standards. If you don’t mind telling who made the knife I would be willing to contact them and pass along some of the formula we use to get the best performance from the steel.

Making knives is not magic. It is chemistry, Physics and Geometry. Constant learning is the key to improving.

Daniel

Nothing is personal, especially online. Some people here are too attached to cyber land. Don't listen to them when they tell you what it is I'm saying, because I've never said anything negative about you. I doubt Ahti is going to concern them selves with a small outfit no matter the name associated with it, they are going to keep cranking out Puukkos and Leuku blades the same way they always have. I doubt they are doing anything wrong at all. The knives are made for duty where they are made. The trees are soft and easy to process, 80crv2 does great when I hit either coast of MI or go up north where there is plenty of softer woods to choose from and hard woods can be completely ignored. There is a birch tree 5 miles from my house that someone planted there some years ago, other than that oak is as soft as it gets in the back woods. So if you get these fellas to send you one keep it oak as being the softest you put the blade into, for both. That's all I really ask to keep it on the up and up.

The rest of this mess is them same people attached too tightly too cyberworld. Any time I mention experience and it don't match up to what they read on a steel chart all hell breaks loose like you have seen. I don't care what they think or say or how their inexperienced brains translate what I say. If they logged off for a few minutes and got into the woods they would notice trends in what steel works best for them and what they do. They got a rash when I said 80crv2 does not hold as good of an edge as 1095 does, and it don't. I've witnessed it over and over too many times with more than one example of both steels. It don't matter what they type, it makes them look a few screws loose upstairs when they tell me I don't know what I'm saying. They don't even offer up worded posting to back up their claims, it's just the same circle of I am wrong, they are right and that's all they need to say. They need to start banging on the basement door they are locked behind so someone will let them outside with their sharp objects collection.

Have fun with the testing. I will be able to tell how much work you had it do by the finish wear, so I'm interested in seeing if you can surpass the wear I have on mine. It won't be a day long test either, your going to have to invest a lot of time to it.

Looking forward to your results.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Nothing is personal, especially online. Some people here are too attached to cyber land. Don't listen to them when they tell you what it is I'm saying, because I've never said anything negative about you. I doubt Ahti is going to concern them selves with a small outfit no matter the name associated with it, they are going to keep cranking out Puukkos and Leuku blades the same way they always have. I doubt they are doing anything wrong at all. The knives are made for duty where they are made. The trees are soft and easy to process, 80crv2 does great when I hit either coast of MI or go up north where there is plenty of softer woods to choose from and hard woods can be completely ignored. There is a birch tree 5 miles from my house that someone planted there some years ago, other than that oak is as soft as it gets in the back woods. So if you get these fellas to send you one keep it oak as being the softest you put the blade into, for both. That's all I really ask to keep it on the up and up.

The rest of this mess is them same people attached too tightly too cyberworld. Any time I mention experience and it don't match up to what they read on a steel chart all hell breaks loose like you have seen. I don't care what they think or say or how their inexperienced brains translate what I say. If they logged off for a few minutes and got into the woods they would notice trends in what steel works best for them and what they do. They got a rash when I said 80crv2 does not hold as good of an edge as 1095 does, and it don't. I've witnessed it over and over too many times with more than one example of both steels. It don't matter what they type, it makes them look a few screws loose upstairs when they tell me I don't know what I'm saying. They don't even offer up worded posting to back up their claims, it's just the same circle of I am wrong, they are right and that's all they need to say. They need to start banging on the basement door they are locked behind so someone will let them outside with their sharp objects collection.

Have fun with the testing. I will be able to tell how much work you had it do by the finish wear, so I'm interested in seeing if you can surpass the wear I have on mine. It won't be a day long test either, your going to have to invest a lot of time to it.

Looking forward to your results.

Boris, do you know what experience is called in the scientific world? It's called anecdotal evidence and is widely considered to be the weakest form of evidence due to the fact that it's almost invariably poisoned by personal bias. Often by bias the person isn't even aware that they have.

Experience isn't nothing, but it's a far cry from everything. That's why you have the wrong grind on your kitchen cutlery. You don't know any better because it's outside your experience.

 

[Ken44]

I would love to see how Busse's INFI stack up against Winkler's 80CRV2 :thumbup:

Sure, who wouldn't, but that is not the spirit of the challenge.

You're right about it not being the spirit of the challenge, but I for one think it would be a huge waste of time testing his against a $30 knife just to prove a point. I think Dan's would smoke it.

Either test it against something great, or don't waste the time(IMO).
I'm not sending one of my Busse's though
I'm pretty sure someone from the Busse room would though.

 

[Quiet]

They got a rash when I said 80crv2 does not hold as good of an edge as 1095 does, and it don't.

The only rash we have is over all the lies you're telling in an attempt to backstop your other lies. Yeah, I said it. I think you're a liar, and a braggart.

Have fun with the testing. I will be able to tell how much work you had it do by the finish wear, so I'm interested in seeing if you can surpass the wear I have on mine. It won't be a day long test either, your going to have to invest a lot of time to it.

Looking forward to your results.

Such ignorance. Criminy, why hasn't this guy been banned yet? "I'll be able to tell!"

FACT: No, you won't. I mean, are you even reading what you're spewing at this point? You haven't shown one picture of your 80crv2 knife you claimed to have, you HAVE posted like, two pics of a knife batoned through some wood, and then use two pics as some sort of proof of "years of hard work this knife has done", and furthermore, you REJECTED Mr. Winkler's testing offer...and now you're here attempting to direct Mr. Winkler on how to do testing on a knife that others have offered to send him (just so it can be rubbed in your face)? No, sorry. You rejected his offer, so you don't get to set conditions on anything.

You are absolutely unbelievable, and I really hope they remove you from this community soon.

 

[Quiet]

P.S. Mods, before you issue me a red-card (which I'll gladly accept for telling this blowhard internet liar what I think of his stories), I ask that you go back through Boris' posts and look at AAALLLLL the times he's made these snide insinuations essentially insulting everyone on this board over liking expensive knives, his constant inferences like "Well, MY knives do ACTUAL work, unlike all the other people on this board!", and his spewing bad information in threads made by new users looking for information like "Meh, you don't need that expensive Spyderco/ZT/etc. Get you a 1095 Schrade, or an 8cr13Mov knife, it's all you need, and better than any so-called supersteel!"

Seriously, I don't understand why these constant snarky remarks have been tolerated.

 

[Boris74]

Boris, do you know what experience is called in the scientific world? It's called anecdotal evidence and is widely considered to be the weakest form of evidence due to the fact that it's almost invariably poisoned by personal bias. Often by bias the person isn't even aware that they have.

Experience isn't nothing, but it's a far cry from everything. That's why you have the wrong grind on your kitchen cutlery. You don't know any better because it's outside your experience.

That sounds good but what are you trying to say? If you drive down the same road every day and there is a dip in the road closest to the shoulder of the road and you hit it everyday and it rattles your teeth, are you going to keep hitting it everyday and just go to the dentist, or are you going to move over in your lane and miss the dip? Experience tells you your teeth won't rattle if you go around it. Should that experience be trusted? I have such a dip down the road from me and I miss it every time, because my experience tells me missing it doesn't slam the suspension on my truck.

Your science (steel charts) does not match my experiences. If you lack the same ones I have you wont notice and default back to your charts. We all know you get honey from a bee hive, but you can't just walk up to it and take it out without getting stung a few times. Same applies with experience with different steels, and here is the part all of you get so hurt feelings over, in my experience.

Your science don't match up to what I have witnessed with them steels in my hand. I'm not talking about what you (don't) do with your knives, I'm talking about my activities in the woods and what I've noticed over the years. Yes, 1095 does better on hard woods. If that hurts your feelings then by all means buy every 80crv2 blade you can and take it after a stack of hard woods. It only matters what you enjoy. I enjoy doing my hobbies with steel that holds an edge longer, that's it, get over it.