Bear Defense?

Situational Awareness is probably your best ally.

Bear spray has a good record and is relatively easy to use.

I’ve destroyed the heart of a white tail doe and had to track it 100 yards from the point of impact through thick brush. A motivated animal can do a good bit without a heart before it expires. A Central Nervous System shot and/or a bone breaking shot is required. Hard, heavy and fast bullets are needed. Oh, you’ll need to place good shots (You know where to place them at any angle right?) under duress.

I’m not saying don’t carry a firearm, I’m just saying know what you are doing if you do.
 
Holag said:
Bear attacks or encounters? In California, black bear attacks are pretty much unheard of (not counting destroyed cars/campsites, false charges, and subsequent heart attacks). There have only been 12 since 1980, none of which were fatal (http://www.dfg.ca.gov/news/issues/bear/bear_incidents.html). I'm moving to Utah soon, so knowing about bear problems would be good considering my hobbies. Are there grizzlies? I would have to agree that mountain lions are much scarier than black bears. I was stalked by a cougar once when I was about 12, and I'll never forget it. I felt like I was in that movie Predator.
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We have had a few people attacked/killed by bears in recent years. There was a young boy that was taken from his tent and killed by a bear a couple years ago.
 
Brimstone said:
We have had a few people attacked/killed by bears in recent years. There was a young boy that was taken from his tent and killed by a bear a couple years ago.
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I remember that incident. I also remember hearing there may have been a few other factors involved, such as food in the tent.
 
median said:
I was actually wondering if there was anything to place around the campsite that would deter the bears? Not sure though.
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Les stroud said in one of his shows to pee on the trees around your campsite, not sure if that works, also I was watching that extreme alaska show where the guys were walking through alaska and one of the guys talked about a 100 meter triangle, camp, at one point of the triangle, eat at another and store food at the 3rd point again with a 100 meters distance in all three points.
 
A lot of bad bears from the sierras western slope get relocated to the East Side. I don't know where you will be camping but the sierras all have bear problems to beware of. The ones on the East Side are just more of a problem because they have all been habituated to humans.
I doubt they would be a problem for a human as far as a attack is concerned, but they will persistantly try to get your food. They will probably succeed. They a re smart enought to know what an ice chest is, and whats inside, so even they are not safe locked inside a car. If the bear can see it they may break into your car to see what they can get. I have seen cars in Yosemite that have had there doors ripped off by bears. One time while climbing there a friend I were challanged by a bear for our dinner while it was still on the BBQ! Another friend returned to her truck to find a bear in her camper shell sleeping off a big meal. Her whole supply of food!
Worst of all you may be cited by rangers for creating a nusance if your car is invaded. I have actually seen this in the Whitney Portal parking lot. Insult added to injury; the car had probably recieded several thousand dollard worth of dammage.
A lot of camp have bear boxes, use them. If you backpack, don't bother with all the hanging of food and what not, buy or rent a bearproof container. They work and the bear may just move on. There small though and dont hold a lot.
A trick I have learned, beleive it or not, works very well. I have actually watched a bear run away when I deployed it and have never had one pillage my food when I used it. HOPPES #9 powder solvent on a cotton ball or a gauze pad kept in a sandwitch bag and put with your food. The bears know the smell and I think they may associate it with getting killed. I have even used it as cologne, not to deter bears but just because I like the smell. It may keep them away though. I have never seen a bear while wearing it. I am not joking at all. Use it, it will work.
 
Watch some black bear videos, they can run VERY fast and fly up a tree lickety split. I got rid of my firearms many years ago and I've never had any reasurring answers about blackies. I have a fear\worry\concern about them, it's not debilitating, but it is there in the back of my mind in some areas. As I've been in seriously remote Boreal forest. My underlying concern was why I bought a Becker Brute knife many years ago. But realisticly I have put little to no faith in defending myself with a knife. I would likely be better off using a small axe......... With that said I still feel that these are poor last ditch, better than nothing, options for defense. I may go through all the B.S. and redo my firearms licensing again. Because bottom line is that yelling or blowing my bad breath in blackies face will do little if it is determined. I am of the 12 gauge school all the way. I have always yelled out ''hey bear, hey bear'' as I was moving through dense brush and I've come across tracks when I didn't expect it. A buddy of mine, that I spoke to last night actually, is still metal detecting Boreal bush and packs a machete and a firearm. Your choice is whatever you are comfortable with at that particular location. I believe in most of what the previous fellows said, and practice avoidance.
 
RickJ said:
Les stroud said in one of his shows to pee on the trees around your campsite...
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This also works for keeping mischievous, youthful campers away from your site, but you have to be sure their parents see you do it for maximum effect;)
 
jdk1 said:
This also works for keeping mischievous, youthful campers away from your site, but you have to be sure their parents see you do it for maximum effect;)
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Considering the times were we have had morons splitting wood at 3 AM I may consider this approach, with the additional cache of a simultaneous roaring burp\fart combo.;)
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
Go the Timothy Treadwell route all you want. I am sure a Canadian bear professor doesn't have a bias against firearms.

There is a big difference between a nuisance bear and one that's going to make a meal of you. A stiff breeze will not render a firearm useless and blind the user. The op wanted viable defense options. Bear spray is a fair weather close range bear deterrent, and not something I would trust my life to.
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But, isn't the bear intent on making a meal of you usually the bear that's just been shot and wounded? Or one that's been wounded in the past?
 
Everybody "thinks' that black bears are SO big, but actually, sub 200 lbs is the average, except right before hibernation. That's why they measure skulls for the Boone and Crockett records, not weight. Funny how a .38 snub is "enough" for defense vs a 350 lb biker with a 10" Bowie Knife, eh? :-) A record boar can reach 600 lbs, but the trouble, if there is any, often comes from sows in the spring and they are nearly emaciated from hibernation (and suckling a pair of cubs).

Since you are more likely to be hit by lighting than suffer an unprovoked attack by a bear I see no reason to buy or carry anything special, even in "bear country". No matter where you go, PEOPLE are the more common and by far the more dangerous attackers. Black bears sometimes stalk you, or attack at night, so if you manage to fire your gun at all, it is likely to be as you are being mauled (or someone else is) So you'll probably have to shove it up under his chin, to his temple, etc, anyway. Under those conditions, the 9mm will turn the trick. And it's not some big, heavy, expensive club that won't do you any good vs men, either.

A million people a year are dogbitten in the US. 10,000 x as many as are attacked by bears (unprovoked) Quite a few of those dog attacks end up being fatal, too. Many thousands of dogs are killed each year with .22 rifles, and some dogs easily top 100 lbs. but ooooh, a BEAR. A couple of tough dogs will run a bear ragged. But nobody is concerned about dogs, and everybody;'s all worried about bears. GOTTA have 338 BAR, and 454 Casull, ya know. :-)
 
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bonee said:
Everybody "thinks' that black bears are SO big, but actually, sub 200 lbs is the average, except right before hibernation. That's why they measure skulls for the Boone and Crockett records, not weight. Funny how a .38 snub is "enough" for defense vs a 350 lb biker with a 10" Bowie Knife, eh? :-) A record boar can reach 600 lbs, but the trouble, if there is any, often comes from sows in the spring and they are nearly emaciated from hibernation (and suckling a pair of cubs).

Since you are more likely to be hit by lighting than suffer an unprovoked attack by a bear I see no reason to buy or carry anything special, even in "bear country". No matter where you go, PEOPLE are the more common and by far the more dangerous attackers. Black bears sometimes stalk you, or attack at night, so if you manage to fire your gun at all, it is likely to be as you are being mauled (or someone else is) So you'll probably have to shove it up under his chin, to his temple, etc, anyway. Under those conditions, the 9mm will turn the trick. And it's not some big, heavy, expensive club that won't do you any good vs men, either.

A million people a year are dogbitten in the US. 10,000 x as many as are attacked by bears (unprovoked) Quite a few of those dog attacks end up being fatal, too. Many thousands of dogs are killed each year with .22 rifles, and some dogs easily top 100 lbs. but ooooh, a BEAR. A couple of tough dogs will run a bear ragged. But nobody is concerned about dogs, and everybody;'s all worried about bears. GOTTA have 338 BAR, and 454 Casull, ya know. :-)
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Concerning bear size; if I am already committed to carrying a gun, why not add a few ounces to the weight and carry a gun that is useful against the largest bear you may encounter. I commend you for thinking you will be able to put a pistol to the throat or temple of an attacking bear.

I am sure you are right that dog bites are far more common than bear attacks, but you are disregarding location. In the woods I have seen 0 wild dogs and a half-dozen wild bears. We are not talking about bear defense in town, so your dog-bite statistics are useless in this conversation.

I am glad you brought up this thread to educate us on the threat of woodland dog attacks. :rolleyes:
 
bonee said:
Everybody "thinks' that black bears are SO big, but actually, sub 200 lbs is the average, except right before hibernation. That's why they measure skulls for the Boone and Crockett records, not weight. Funny how a .38 snub is "enough" for defense vs a 350 lb biker with a 10" Bowie Knife, eh? :-) A record boar can reach 600 lbs, but the trouble, if there is any, often comes from sows in the spring and they are nearly emaciated from hibernation (and suckling a pair of cubs).

Since you are more likely to be hit by lighting than suffer an unprovoked attack by a bear I see no reason to buy or carry anything special, even in "bear country". No matter where you go, PEOPLE are the more common and by far the more dangerous attackers. Black bears sometimes stalk you, or attack at night, so if you manage to fire your gun at all, it is likely to be as you are being mauled (or someone else is) So you'll probably have to shove it up under his chin, to his temple, etc, anyway. Under those conditions, the 9mm will turn the trick. And it's not some big, heavy, expensive club that won't do you any good vs men, either.

A million people a year are dogbitten in the US. 10,000 x as many as are attacked by bears (unprovoked) Quite a few of those dog attacks end up being fatal, too. Many thousands of dogs are killed each year with .22 rifles, and some dogs easily top 100 lbs. but ooooh, a BEAR. A couple of tough dogs will run a bear ragged. But nobody is concerned about dogs, and everybody;'s all worried about bears. GOTTA have 338 BAR, and 454 Casull, ya know. :-)
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Rarely is the 350lb biker covered in a thick pelt. Weight is by far not the only deciding factor about what you need gun wise.

I live in Idaho in bear country and the thought that "situational awareness" can protect you against bear is insane. Not only that but you carry a gun while hiking/camping for protection all around, not just against bear. I find it hilarious that people think that the woods are populated by just bear.

I have a 12 gauge loaded with 2 3/4 brenneke slugs at the house and a Ruger Blackhawk 45colt loaded with Buffalo Bore +p when i walk in the woods.
 
ThriftyJoe said:
It's not the wild dingos that get you, it's lovable Fido the family pet. "But he never bites anyone at home", said the owner of every single dog that ever mauled a kid.

I'm not particularly dog-phobic. I just know that if they think I'm a threat or I break some rule of dog dominance etiquette, things can go bad pretty quick, especially with the big ones. About two weeks ago on a backpacking trip in Wyoming I had to "draw" my bear spray. Not a bear, but three big unleashed (of course) labs barking aggressively and running toward me on the trail. In the distance I heard the owner telling them to knock it off, but of course they ignored him.

With bear spray in hand, I made nice to them and I was lucky this time. I always believe my greatest danger from violence on the trail is from unleashed dogs. They're running loose everywhere, frequently in violation of wilderness area rules, but nobody enforces it. I think bear spray works on bad guy humans too. Just sayin'
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It may just be my luck again, but every single domesticated dog I have encountered on the trail has been awesome.
Around here it is extremely rare to encounter a dog on a leash. Still, zero problems.

I am afraid of large, mean dogs, but not in the woods. Maybe I am a bit naive.

The only problem I had with a dog was at a house trying to pet a dog and it lunged at my neck. The owners said that was strange. I attempted petting the dog again and the same thing happened. I gave up after that, lol. I think it did not like direct eye contact, which I now know is a good thing to avoid.
 
theAntihero said:
I live in Idaho in bear country and the thought that "situational awareness" can protect you against bear is insane.
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I live in Idaho as well. Situational awareness when traveling in bear country CAN help greatly in avoiding many bear encounters, and it should be your first line of defense, imo. No one is saying it should be your only line of defense, but prevention is always better than treatment, and avoidance of bear encounters in the first place should be the top priority. It isn't "insane" at all, and just about any decent bear protocol mentions it in one form or another.

That said, there are also those close-range, surprise encounters where the bear is suddenly "just there" right in front of you, despite your best attempts at situational awareness. It's certainly happened to me. That is when you need to have something that is quickly deployable. The choices of what to carry have already been discussed in detail. That's up to you.
 
Are bears really that aggressive though? I mean obviously yes they can be aggressive and they are so massive and strong that a 9mm isn't going to stop it at close range. But if a bear sees you does that automatically mean he is going to attack you? Obviously there are different circumstances with animals in general (if a mother is amongst her children, how hungry the animal is, etc.) are all different circumstances that can cause an animal to be more aggressive. I live up in New England and we have "bear country" but I've never ran into one or been worried about it. I'm not being ignorant to the fact that it could kill you or seriously injure you, but how often do they attack on sight? Just curious, many of you have said you've ran into them numerous times, I'm just wondering for educational purposes on how many times you've been threatened by one or had to deploy bear spray/firearm/etc. From what I know of bears they are more of a problem for people with livestock/farms when a bear begins to feel your home and land is his or her hunting territory, and even then they are normally relocated or drive away by specialists.
 
you cant read, obviously. I never said ONE WORD about the dog attacks being restricted to the woodlands. You dont add " a few ozs" to have realistic capabability vs bears, you add about 7 lbs, so that you've got a 3006 autoloading rifle. That's what you need if you live on Kodiak Island. :-) Otherwise, these threads about bears are a joke. Bears charge at 50 fps. Only a brain hit has any likelihood of stopping one. I have competed at the world championship level, combat matches with the rifle and pistol.. I KNOW how fast it's possible to be, likely reaction time and recognition interval, etc. Unless you spot the bear at more than 50 yds of distance, and have your rifle in your hands, ready, you wont be at all likely to stop that charge. Doing so with a pistol is like surviving not having a parachute opening. Its happened, but it's pure luck.
 
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