Benchmade 710 - No new axis spring for me.

Originally posted by Full Tang Clan

I don't really know if I would consider these omega spring breakages as pretty good odds statistically speaking. I've been at these forums for two and a half years and there is a definite pattern. Sure, it's nothing that requires a product recall but then again if these were liner lock, or lockback failures, it would be considered a catastrophe and people would be up in arms.

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The difference is that these broken springs do not constitute lock failure. I have yet to see a post that says "My Axis lock closed on my finger when the spring broke."

Come to think of it, I have never seen a post which indicated that an Axis lock knife closed unintentionally due to failure, torque, or slippage. Can't say the same thing about liner locks or lockbacks.

Look at it this way: It appears that an axis lock with 1 broken spring is still more reliable than competing locks.
 
But the point is that it's still a product failure, or defect.

I am a very demanding consumer and I expect companies that claim to be one of the best to support their claims.

Come on, we're kinda letting this slide only because it's Benchmade. Would we tolerate things going wrong from a $15 knife made in China? No. We'd be screaming on these boards of how they're junk. So why tolerate it from a $150 knife made in the USA?

I'm not trying to be harsh on Benchmade. Like I said, it's a complicated lock with a moving parts that are bound to wear out just like a timing belt in your car. However, I don't think as consumers we should accept the status quo and say, "Oh well, it's good enough as it is."

This isn't rocket science. They just have to tell their supplier, "Hey, some of these springs are dying too quickly. Make us better ones." They can even pass the added expense to us. Hell, I'll pay a little more for a better product.
 
I have a couple of Benchmades with the Axis lock and have never experienced any problems. Still, these Omega springs are covered under Benchmade's warranty. If the spring breaks, send it back to Benchmade and DON'T TINKER WITH IT.

Like many others, I like to be able to disassemble my knife for cleaning and such, but I am careful when I reassemble my knives. Believe it or not, I know some people who simply cannot reassemble anything once it's been taken apart. If they try, they just make things worse. I would just recommend that the knife be sent back to Benchmade with a note saying that the Omega spring broke and that you would like your knife repaired. I'm sure they will fix it with no qustions asked.
 
It infuriates me that benchmade won't send out parts, even when people will gladly pay for them. I don't buy benchmade knives anymore for that very reason. The back spacer on my mini-afck was one of a bad lot that Benchmade had a few years ago. They flat out refused to send a 1 cent plastic part, even when I would gladly have paid for it and for shipping. I refuse to send my knife out of the country for weeks to have them replace a part that I could replace myself in less time than it takes to lick the stamp...
 
chad, I remember that BM axis lock uses two omega springs, and judging from the original post, I think only one was broken.
I'm not saying that the little part doesn't matter, but I don't see why they shouldn't let him have the spring if he even offers to buy it. If it breaks, it would be his own liability because he had taken it apart and arguably may have modified it by accident.
 
Originally posted by fishbulb
The difference is that these broken springs do not constitute lock failure. I have yet to see a post that says "My Axis lock closed on my finger when the spring broke."
Look at it this way: It appears that an axis lock with 1 broken spring is still more reliable than competing locks.
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Alright, here it is. When the spring on my Axis lock broke, it prevented the locking bar from sliding properly. Thus, the bar did not always exert enough pressure on the tang to keep the blade closed in my pocket. :eek: The knife was also prevented from locking open seculrely on several occasions, but luckily I wasn't doing anything that would cause the blade to fold up at the time.

So here's your quote: "I cut my thumb TWICE because the spring on my Axis lock broke. It could have been much worse- like a femoral artery or something." Feel free to copy that statement and save it on your hard drive for reference.

An Axis lock with one broken spring is NOT reliable.
 
Originally posted by the possum
Alright, here it is. When the spring on my Axis lock broke, it prevented the locking bar from sliding properly. Thus, the bar did not always exert enough pressure on the tang to keep the blade closed in my pocket. :eek: The knife was also prevented from locking open seculrely on several occasions, but luckily I wasn't doing anything that would cause the blade to fold up at the time.

So here's your quote: "I cut my thumb TWICE because the spring on my Axis lock broke. It could have been much worse- like a femoral artery or something." Feel free to copy that statement and save it on your hard drive for reference.

An Axis lock with one broken spring is NOT reliable.
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Res Ipsa Loquitor = Latin for "The evidence speaks for itself" :)
 
Originally posted by the possum
An Axis lock with one broken spring is NOT reliable.
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Which is why it should be sent back to the manufacturer for inspection and repair.

NO lock is 100% effective if there is something wrong with it, but ALL of them break sometimes. That's where you need to decide if you are going to throw it away or send it for repair.

I'm sure that in the $100 - $200 price range Benchmade sells more knives than any other manufacturer, that fact alone would mean we should hear more about the problems the have with the lock if it were average. The fact that you can only find 6-10 people with failed Axis locks is a testament to how well they are doing with the lock and that it's above average.
 
Originally posted by the possum
Alright, here it is. When the spring on my Axis lock broke, it prevented the locking bar from sliding properly. Thus, the bar did not always exert enough pressure on the tang to keep the blade closed in my pocket. :eek: The knife was also prevented from locking open seculrely on several occasions, but luckily I wasn't doing anything that would cause the blade to fold up at the time.
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Well, I suppose that qualifies. Was the broken portion of the spring actually occupying the slot where the lock bar rides or was there simply not enough pressure to keep the bar in place?

I recall seeing another post where somebody said that their Axis spring broke and they did not even know it until they took the knife apart for routine cleaning. If this is true it appears that the reliability of a broken Axis spring depends on how the pieces fit together after a failure.

Rereading the initial post in this thread, I was surprised by the amount of rust that was apparently inside of the knife. I get the impression that the spring was totally or partially eaten through by corrosion, which in turn caused the failure. If this is the case the problem is not one of BM's quality or reliability, because the knife had not been properly maintained.
 
Originally posted by fishbulb
Rereading the initial post in this thread, I was surprised by the amount of rust that was apparently inside of the knife. I get the impression that the spring was totally or partially eaten through by corrosion, which in turn caused the failure. If this is the case the problem is not one of BM's quality or reliability, because the knife had not been properly maintained.
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Actually, the spring itself was not rusted - the liners were.

My theory is that this may have contributed to the failure of the spring, due to added friction when opening and closing. Or, it could have just been a faulty spring.

I think the knife was properly maintained.

I don't see how I could have gotten more oil in between the scale and the liner, which is the only place the rust developed. I didn't know that 410 stainless would rust like that. The rest of the knife is in good shape. It was never exposed to emersion in water, or excessive sweat, etc, and I live in a pretty dry climate. It was pretty shocking.

I don't intend to send the knife in. I haven't been carrying it in while, so its really out of my rotation. Hopefully, at some point I will acquire some new omega springs. I'm not in a real hurry though. I'll get back to it eventually. I heard somewhere that someone was selling "beefier" omega springs. Someday, I'll find them.

One good point for you axis lovers out there: Even with only one omega spring, the knife locks up tight, and has zero blade play. Somehow, I would've thought the locking bar would wobble on the broken-spring side, but it doesn't at all.

I don't think I'd try to go chop down a tree with it, but I wouldn't feel unsafe at all for most normal tasks.

-- Rob
 
Originally posted by baraqyal

I don't see how I could have gotten more oil in between the scale and the liner, which is the only place the rust developed. I didn't know that 410 stainless would rust like that. The rest of the knife is in good shape. It was never exposed to emersion in water, or excessive sweat, etc, and I live in a pretty dry climate. It was pretty shocking.
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I see, must have got the wrong impression from yout initial post. That the very stainless liner material rusted with proper care is another issue to be concerned about. What sort of condition was the other liner in?

You may want to reconsider sending it in. If this knife rusted that readily with proper care it is definately something they should know about. The worst they could do is send it back and you would lose what you paid for shipping charges, and it's entirely possible you will end up with a new knife.
 
You know if you buy a new vehicle, it is under warranty. If you take the engine apart and add performance modifications to it, you void the warranty. All this means is the company won't pay to fix something when it breaks. Does this mean that you cannot order new parts from the company or factory to fix it yourself, or take it to a mechanic and have it fixed with factory parts? Absolutely not. Is the company liable if you install your parts wrong, and your engine blows up on you? No. Why is it any different for Benchmade then. So what, you voided your warranty. This should mean that you are accepting full responsibility for your actions, and are assuming liability for cost of repairs. What is shouldn't mean, is you cannot buy the parts needed to repair your knife. I personally don't give a $hit about what the warranty says, if I want to add an anodized ti spacer or have the liners jeweled, I do this at my own risk, and will gladly pay for any repairs in the future. Why should Benchmade keep you from paying for parts to repair your own knife? This is crazy. And Gollnick, don't jump my case about what the pretty blue box says in BIG BOLD LETTERS. Benchmade is the only company that won't allow customization, and personalization of a product. If I buy a knife, I buy the rights to that knife, and the rights to perform any modification that I see fit. If this voids the warranty, so be it. I knew it when I did it. Does that mean that if a serviceable part breaks, I shouldn't be able to pay to have it fixed? No it does not. End of MY rant.

Mike
 
Medic, there are plenty of other companies that void the warranty if the knife is taken apart, Microtech and Masters of Defense come to mind readily.

There are also plenty of companies that will not warranty a knife that has been modified, Spyderco and Chris Reeve fall into this category.

None of them will just send you parts necessary for the safe operation of the knife on a whim.
 
Mike (Medic1210) you just spoke my mind.
I stand corrected about the reliability of the Axis lock when one of the two omega springs is broken, but I still believe that if one should choose to buy the parts, they should be allowed to do so.
 
After reading about all of this one fact has been forever burned in my mind, "NOTE TOSELF AVOID BENCHMADE, IF BENCHMADE BREAKS DONOT TRY TO FIX IT:rolleyes: "
 
Originally posted by cpirtle
Medic, there are plenty of other companies that void the warranty if the knife is taken apart, Microtech and Masters of Defense come to mind readily.

There are also plenty of companies that will not warranty a knife that has been modified, Spyderco and Chris Reeve fall into this category.

None of them will just send you parts necessary for the safe operation of the knife on a whim.
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The question is not of voiding the warranty. It is of why should I not be able to have a knife fixed at my expense once the warranty is voided. Just like numberthree stated, why should he ship his knife overseas to have a spacer replaced when he could buy one from them, and replace it in a lot less time? There is no liability issue with you taking the knife apart and replacing it with a part that BM sent you. If there was, then they are liable for putting screws in their knife that can be removed by tools that I have. If BM really wanted to make their knives hard to disassemble, then they would use those torx screws with the post in the center that requires a special torx wrench with the hollowed out middle to remove. End of story. They should sell the parts required to fix their knives. It is more of a liability to them for me to use one of their knives that is broken and I refuse to send back just so they can fix it. Especially if I am capable of making said repair.

Mike
 
First, Benchmade will fix a knife that you damaged even if it is at your expense. No one has ever said they would not correct the problem. Even the issue with the broken back spacer, it broke while the person was taking it apart and BM was still willing to replace it. So you're wrong.

Second, They have no idea if you are capable of making said repair.

Third, I have yet to hear anyone who can tell me what knife company will send parts that are integral to the safety of a knife out for a person to replace themselves.

Spyderco - No
SOG - Nope
Benchmade - No
Chris Reeve - No
MOD - No
Microtech - Hell no

Until you guys can show me a company that will do everything you are asking your point is invalid, sorry.
 
I did not read all the posts that were made here but I can tell you that another forumite, Professor, took steel spring wire and made his own omega springs. I think the wire was a little heavier gauge than what BM uses and as a result it really put the locking bar up tight against the blade and frame. The thicker gauge wire also would be less likely to snap/break, I think. Run a search on professor and get an email and ask him where and what he did. No use in being stuck with a knife that you do not want to send back and a company that will not send you a spring when you can fabricate your own. Just a thought.
 
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