Benchmade 710 - No new axis spring for me.

Regarding BM Customer Service:

They've always been good to me. Most recently, they were willing to swap out the handles (and the bushings) on my pre-production 806D2 with the newer 4 position clip handles. I've just been too lazy to mail my knife to them. Actually, now that I recall, I probably can't send it back anymore because I've done too much Dremeling...

It WOULD be nice, however, to be able to just simply purchase spare parts. The 710 and 806 ARE very simple mechanical instruments and it doesn't take a rocket scientist and/or brain surgeon to be able to competently disassemble and reassemble either one.

Uncle Mike's is extremely paranoid. They were unwilling to sell me 2 extra "anchors" (parallelogram piece of plastic) and hardware (nut and bolt) for the kydex paddle holster I had purchased. Sheesh.

Last time I checked, Beretta USA, on the other hand, WILL sell you just about any of the parts/pieces from the exploded views of their pistols. They don't require you to send your pistol back to them to have, for example, a trigger spring replaced.
 
Guys,

I certainly don't like sending a knife in for warranty any more than anyone else does. But that fact of the matter is that the Axis lock uses some small parts that can beak.

If it is possible for Bm to get better springs I'm all for it. But before I come here telling everyone that BM needs to redesign their lock, or purchase better springs I need some hard facts as to how many of them break.

If the number of broken Omega springs has been 100 and BM has produced 100,000 knives with the Axis lock, that is a .001 percent failure rate.

Just because a few people here have said theirs broke, that is nothing scientific.

Benchmade is a company that has always tried to improve on their product. When there were a lot of reports about their QC and customer service they worked to improve it.

If they see a high failure rate in their springs they'll improve on them, or people will stop buying the knives.

Until then, the best thing you can do is send your knife in for a repair of the Omega spring, this way BM can know if and when they have another one broken.

A couple of years ago I swore off Benchmade for a while because I thought they were lacking in QC. No I own 8-9 newer generation BM's and all of them exhibit excellent QC (with centered blades).

So, I don't disagree with your premise that the product should be as good as it can be, I disagree with the way you are impuning the product because of your perception.
 
Hey, I wonder if anybody has ever told General Motors that they should simply start making cars that never break and always have 100% QC.

That would be a lot easier, right? I wonder why they never thought of that.

Unless you have experince with engineering or manufacturing you have no idea of the amount of complexity you are talking about when you start making design changes. If it was as easy as telling the supplier "Hey guys, could you start making us springs that don't ever break" don't you think everybody would have done that by now?

I would be quite surprised if you can show me one mass production company (outside of expensive aerospace and medical applications) that can hold 100% quality control and never have a product fail while remaining price competitive.
 
My guess is that if you started off a business selling Axis lock Omega springs you would sell ten of them over the next two years. Eight out of ten to people in Europe.

I can carry any folding knife I want. I own Mayo, Ralph, and Strider frame locks, and about a dozen Axis locks. I have no warranty problems.

I have heard that you can make replacement Omega springs out of piano wire. If one of mine ever breaks (I have a pre-production 710) I plan to give that a try, just for fun.
 
Originally posted by cpirtle
Guys,

I certainly don't like sending a knife in for warranty any more than anyone else does. But that fact of the matter is that the Axis lock uses some small parts that can beak.

If it is possible for Bm to get better springs I'm all for it. But before I come here telling everyone that BM needs to redesign their lock, or purchase better springs I need some hard facts as to how many of them break.

If the number of broken Omega springs has been 100 and BM has produced 100,000 knives with the Axis lock, that is a .001 percent failure rate.

Just because a few people here have said theirs broke, that is nothing scientific.

Benchmade is a company that has always tried to improve on their product. When there were a lot of reports about their QC and customer service they worked to improve it.

If they see a high failure rate in their springs they'll improve on them, or people will stop buying the knives.

Until then, the best thing you can do is send your knife in for a repair of the Omega spring, this way BM can know if and when they have another one broken.

A couple of years ago I swore off Benchmade for a while because I thought they were lacking in QC. No I own 8-9 newer generation BM's and all of them exhibit excellent QC (with centered blades).

So, I don't disagree with your premise that the product should be as good as it can be, I disagree with the way you are impuning the product because of your perception.
Click to expand...

Okay cpirtle (and others),

I think we're coming more to a point of agreement here.

I don't think anyone is outright picking on Benchmade. Certainly, I'm not trying to. I may be giving that impression but only because I'm using them as an example. Many forumites can attest to the fact that I always recommend the 710.

I also agree that bolt action locks have a lot of parts that can go wrong and complex by design. You do not have to convince me of this as I qualified that a week ago in support of the Axis lock.

Most importantly, no one is questioning Benchmade's dedicated after sales service, and warranty. I think some of us, as concerned knife nuts, want to know if Benchmade is aware of the sporadic spring breakages and whether they have addressed this to those that manufacture the springs for them. I find it curious that SOG claims they have had no reported spring breakages in 2 years of the Vision being introduced.

Nor am I naive enough to believe that products should NEVER break, be 100% defect free, or that manufacturing is a simple process. Nobody has claimed that. For those of you who think that's what I'm implying, you're missing the point.

Speaking for myself, and perhaps komondor, I think we question those of you out there -- not you in particular cpirtle -- who erroneously conclude that it's okay to excuse products with flaws because a warranty will rescue it. Or worse, companies that idlly sit by without trying to work out kinks in their products. Once again, I'm speaking in general; not picking on Benchmade or the knife industry.

A prime example of this is Microsoft products. They'll launch products with security holes, and flaws in them just to beat their competition or to meet a release date. Then the poor consumer has to keep going to their download site to get patches! They could have the best aftersales service in the world, but it doesn't make it any easier for their customers who has to go to the trouble and the subsequent downtime.

That's all I'm pointing out. I'm not picking on Benchmade. I'm picking on manufacturers in general and -- yes, as BobbyB at the SOG Forum pointed out -- I admit it's a bit idealistic for me to believe every manufacturer would put in ISO-like standards into their processes; it's expensive to do that. However, I'm saying wouldn't it be nice if they did and strove to continuously improve and work out and limit any flaws in their system before it got to the consumer? This would reduce subsequent headaches to all parties involved. Yes?

To conclude, I think the misunderstanding between some of us here is that on the one side there are you realists out there who are saying: "This is the way it is, these are the parameters and limitations...live with it." While there are the idealists and dreamers like myself who are saying, "Yes, but it could be much better if they would..." None of us are disagreeing that we want quality products, our problem is that we are just looking at different parts of the whole.
 
FTC, Agreed.

Part of the problem with communicating via Forum vs. Spoken Word is that it's harder to follow the line someone is taking and the message can get lost 20 posts ago.



The only thing I still can't agree on is...

"....who erroneously conclude that it's okay to excuse products with flaws because a warranty will rescue it."

Because I don't believe it is a flaw, I feel some have just broke.

This would have to be the one thing we would have to agree to disagree on ;)
 
Maybe I'll get blasted for this but I'd rather have a benchmade that I CAN take apart and clean instead of a Spyderco with FRN or rivets! AS far as warrenty I've never had any thing but the best service from benchmade. Ofcorse I could say the same about spyderco great service from both companies.
 
BenchMade sent me out parts. I guess it depends on who you talk to. They also sent me out a pocket clip and new screws recently for my 420 Resistor.
 
Is there a rule saying it can't be resurrected? :confused:

Seriously. It was referred to recently in a link in another newer thread. I just saw it and answered it. I rarely look at the dates. Sorry.

I recieved parts from BM for repairs I did to two RSK knives. (yes internal parts). Didn't know it was not supposed to happen. Apparently the gal I spoke with didn't either. First I've heard that BM doesn't send out parts. I always assumed if I wanted a spring for my own knife that they'd ship one out like they did before. N/C

Maybe I'm just lucky or asked at a good time. Or maybe I just give good phone? :eek:
 
As much as I like folders...and in particular, axis locks, this just goes to show you that knives were meant to be fixed blades. Not a whole lot of moving parts on one of them...is there? ;)
 
Somewhere, right now, there is someone saying...

"That AK-47 has too many moving parts! My musket is better. Simple is better!"
 
Ha, I started reading this thread and thought it was new. Anyway, I've had my BM710 for over 4 years, have carried it almost everyday, swing it open and closed all the time, never had a problem. When I first got it I squirted some Tuff Glide on the springs and internal parts. I do this from time to time. This may have helped reduce wear on the action, prevent rust, etc.

I'm curious as to why the topic starter's 2 1/2 month old 710 was so rusty. Did it get wet? Was it left wet in a pair of wet jeans? Did it get wet with salt water? This part of the story is a myster. If it was left in salt water or something nasty the springs may have failed from corrosion.

Also I don't see why BM can't send out springs. Like the other poster said, if you can buy car parts and replace them yourself (brake pads, etc) that could result in mass death if they fail, why can't Benchmade send out a spring? I'm sure you can order parts for guns and other lethal items that could cause injury or death if improperly installed.

If BM is so worried about something they could simply have people print out a release form from their website, sign it and FAX it or mail it in, waiving BM free of all responsibilities.
 
I'm a pretty big benchmade fan, though this warranty business is not that great. I get that they don't want to have to deal with the hassle of people messing up their knives and sending them in broken, but I don't get why they can't just charge something for it, something relatively small, 20 dollars maybe? That'll discourage people from tampering with their knives, but it's not the end of your 130 dollar knife if you fail at fixing something that actually did go wrong. This is an especially big deal for me as I own a 41MC, and a lot folks (NOT me) remove their pins, which certainly voids the warranty.

I'd be very disappointed if Benchmade chose not to replace the broken parts in this guy's knife, so many years ago....it wouldn't end my affection for benchmade, but it'd give Spyderco an edge in my book.

Of course, for the rest of us, the axis lock is pretty much flawless, so I'll probably not have to worry about it....but this sort of thing you think about when you drop 120+ dollars on a knife.
 
On a more recent note, I sent in 2 AFCK's that I did break and take apart. An old liner lock model and an 806D2. The old one I took apart and stripped out the handle screws. The 806 I took apart to clean and lost an AXIS spring. I called BM, sent them both in, paid about $15 after everything and 3wks later both were good as new. Can't complain there.
 
I've dealt with a few knife companies when it comes to warranty and so far Benchmade was hand down the most polite and helpful. Although taking the knife apart does void the warranty, it doesn't mean you can't get it fixed. They just apply some charges which are very resonable

Also just because a few axis springs fail doesn't prove anything. I've had a BM 710 since they first started producing them. I've carried it almost everyday. I keep it clean but I don't go out of my way to make it pristine. I've also never taken it apart to clean it and it has never failed.

And it's not that Benchmade thinks were to stupid to put the knife back together correctly. It's that they know there are idiots out there that sue companies for millions after their retarted a**es spill coffe on themselves and were suprised it was hot.
 
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