Best Spyderco SD?

bigkahunasix said:
Ashtxsniper- I've got your and Yabs backs. Don't let the trolls and amatuers bug you. ;):D

I do this stuff for a living- train civilians and LEO's to stay alive. My vote goes to the Police model ...
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you would really recommend a SS handled knife thats that smooth for self defense and then want to call people amateurs and trolls???? LOL....


SE will take out zippers better than PE will. and on top of that PE slides on clothing a lot. SE just has way more cutting power.
 
First off we are talking about defense and not attacking others. Your best choice for a knife would be a fixed blade with a decent hand guard. I can grip my Police model as well as my Military or Endura model. I can stab any of these knives into wood post with a lot of force and never have my hand slip. Basically you are stating opinions. Any knife is a poor weapon in a fight get a handgun.
 
ashtxsniper said:
First off we are talking about defense and not attacking others.
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um........using a blade to defend yourself usually involves stabbing or slashing bro.....

ashtxsniper said:
Your best choice for a knife would be a fixed blade with a decent hand guard.
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not really, a fixed blade is usually more noticeable while the folder is more low key and easier to carry around.

ashtxsniper said:
I can grip my Police model as well as my Military or Endura model. I can stab any of these knives into wood post with a lot of force and never have my hand slip.
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do you do it with your hands covered in blood or sweat as well? or while your being attacked by someone??? i know a guy who stabbed a tire and sliced his hand wide open with the police. bone is probably harder.

ashtxsniper said:
Basically you are stating opinions. Any knife is a poor weapon in a fight get a handgun.
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a knife is a poor weapon in a fight?? lol. and yeah im stating the opinions of highly respected martial artists.

heres a nice video of a crazy maniac taking on 5 police that are armed, one of them with an assault rifle. see how many the madman with no training at all takes out before he is stopped.

http://www.comegetyousome.com/viewvid.php?id=1630

filipino commandos training knife skills
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXfZ9C9vJso
 
And your training and PERSONAL experience is from what agency, school, theater of operations. My credentials are fairly well known both here and Spyderco's own forum. But for the record:

Gysgt. USMC (ret.)- Infantry
H2H- close combat instructor 11yrs.
TKD-3yrs.
Hapkido-8yrs.
HwaRangdo-8yrs.
NRA certified LEO instructor- handgun/subgun/rifle/shotgun
LEO- 7yrs.
Private Trainer (LEO/Civilian)-7yrs.

And yes, I practice what I preach. A knife fight is generally not a protracted battle but a short furious encounter in which both parties are generally ready
to escape if possible. And the Police has been used successfully by myself and hundreds of Military/LEO's in those type of encounters. I prefer the G-10
scaled version, but do not feel poorly armed with the SS.

Your turn.

BK6
 
jkd- 4 years
kajukenbo-4 years
jiu jitsu -3 years
muay thai - 7 years
boxing - 7 years
judo - 5 years
kali - 3 years
silat mubai(indonesian/muslim combatives)3 years

SD and martial arts are my life. even at the inosanto academy, one of the most respected in the world, they dont recommend SS handles.
 
bigkahunasix said:
A knife fight is generally not a protracted battle but a short furious encounter
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yes, and thats why i wouldnt want to carry a knife that increases the chances of fumbling around with it or dropping it when that happens.

you can carry whatever you like, hell a fountain pen can be used as a weapon in a SD situation. but as a serious martial artist who has trained with some of the best people currently around, and from all the sources ive drawn from, i personally wouldnt carry a SS handled blade for SD nor would i recommend one for SD.

but if you think that smooth SS handles are better than grippy frn or g10 ones, especially in a moment that you really really dont want to drop it or cut yourself and just may end up with slippery hands......... im going to think your advice is pretty suspect. thats just my opinion though. the dude is free to order whatever knife he wants and you are free to carry and recommend what you like.
 
huh said:
nobody mentioned swick/spot? In a SD situation, I would feel more comfortable having a C07 police in my hands than any other spydercos (given the local law allows 4"+ blade folders, such as NC)
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Another for the Police. Thanks.
 
OK, one last attempt to get you to understand.

1) Person actually asking for assistance- large male, large hands, no concealment issues, prefers IWB.

2) Looking for spyderco. Preferably a large model. SS is best for IWB carry.

3) The Police model is the most common folding knife in LEO pockets in this country, followed closely by the endura and delica (both ss and frn), after that it opens up to everything else. (spyderco, BM, emerson, CS etc...)

4) If you read my initial post past what injured your sensitive feelings, you would have seen my recommendation to find a G-10 model or get the SS beadblasted for added control. It IS helpful, but not absolutely imperitive. If his hands are large his grip on the scales should be sufficient.

6) I have personally used the Police models in life-or-death situations and it was my mind that allowed me to survive not what knife I carried. Again my initial post recommended him to seek professional training, the type that prepares you mentally as well as physically. Situational awareness+training+weapon of choice= survival.

Attend a few LEO training seminars, or better yet use all that training and become an LEO. The real world is much different from a dojo interpretation, be it yours or the instructors. Walking around with tons of dojo training and minimal threat is alot different than living with the constant threat of death or greivous bodily injury.

BK6
 
ashtxsniper said:
I carry a police along with a few other Spyderco's. I dont use them for defense that is what my Sig 229 at my side if for. Since you are an expert what do you recommend?
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Jack of all trades, Master of none: I don't think I'm expert advice on anything.
Sig 229 is a great weapon. The 0.40 is a good round. I really wanted to try the sig 357. My buddy in Secret Service loves his. My favorite Sig is the 220. I bought when they gave me a S&W back in the stone age. I stopped carrying it because I liked it and part of fire sequence required dropping mags. I would cringe each time my Sig mags would hit the ground. I put the Sig in my Home defense/off duty weapon. By this time, my department shifted to the Glock and 1911s.
I did UC for 3.5 years. I carried a Glock 30 in warm weather and Glock 21 and Para P-14.45 in cold weather. SWAT stuff I'd carry the Glock 35 or the Springfield operator, Remington 1187, HK G36 full size.
SWAT Competition (nationals): M-4 and Glock 21
Thanks for the input on SD though.
 
attend leo seminars? lol. leos are trained by martial artists bro lol....... they come to our seminars, dont get it mixed up. i doubt the training most leos get at the academy puts them anywhere near some of the people who have dedicated themselves to learning time tested arts that have been passed down from generation to generation so people could survive during wars and turbulent times.
 
bigkahunasix said:
Ashtxsniper- I've got your and Yabs backs. Don't let the trolls and amatuers bug you. ;):D

I do this stuff for a living- train civilians and LEO's to stay alive. My vote goes to the Police model first (more so if you can find a G-10 flat ground Police, my
personal "bad neighborhood" blade) And either the Military or Endura next. And a 50/50 blade at most as fully serrated blades tend not to slash as deeply and
occassionally get caught in heavy clothing, especially zippers. PE is really best.

A couple of tips- get your Police bead blasted (not sandblasted) to improve the grip when sweaty, do not sharpen the swedge. Get some actual street
blade training from a reputable teacher. At least view some dvd's from shivworks, Keating, Janich. Practice and situational awareness is what keeps you alive.

BK6
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Thanks BK6
I have you down for the Police/Miltary/Endura in that order.
My departmment would issue a $100 training credit every year (until Budget cuts). Of course, mine would go to the Knife tactics courses. I'd love to take Keating or Janich. I'll have to watch Michael's video again. He's one of those guys that blows you away with his level of expertise.
 
3mptin3ss said:
SS handles are a big no no. sure, you could still use the police to defend yourself for sure, but SS handles increase the chances of it slipping in your hand meaning a few things. you may lose your weapon. your attacker or his buddy may pick it up and use it on you. if you stab someone and hit bone, the SS handles increase the chance of your hands sliding over the blade, cutting your hand in the process. the handle of the police doesnt have a fingerguard, so stabbing with it could be risky.if your talking about the g10 police, thats a whole different story.

i recommended the fully serrated military and fuilly serrated endura.

the civilian/matriarch/harpy is pretty good, though its a bit less versatile because of its design. you cant really stab to well with it, and the thin tip of the harpy/civiliam may pierce flesh very well, but i dont know how well it will hold up if you hit bone. you cant really thrust with it.

dallara is good cause it can be enertia opened very easily and smoothly due to the ball lock. this is handy in a self defense situation as there is less to fumble around with while your trying to deploy your blade while your thoughts are racing. its also sturdy enough to not wear out by being enertia opened all the time. its frn handle is VERY well designed and lets you get a real solid grip on it.

the non spyderco knives i carry for SD are a kershaw 10 speedbump, and 4 inch cold steel voyager frn, and sometimes a kershaw whirlwind so i could feel cool about carrying the same knife matt damon used in the departed lol....
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I think I have some of the same concerns. I think when your in a high pressure situation, you do what you've been trained to do. I've been trained to slash and thrust. The civilian capitalizes on slashing movements.

A person can cover 30 ft in just over a second, dogs are faster. Most officers I've trained can't even draw their weapons in 1.2 seconds and fire their weapon. Sure after we train for a few days, they drop the time sinificantly but 30 days later they are right back where they started. Whats interesting is most cops can draw theirs knives in less than a second.
 
Hang on a minute while I drag my soapbox out...

Stripped of all emotion and hyperbole, a self-defense knife is nothing more and nothing less than a knife you use to defend yourself at need. In order to be effective, you have to have it when the need arises. And since those times don't follow any schedules, the only way to ensure you will have it when you need it is to have it all the time.

I have spent approximately 273,000 hours carrying one or more knives. I have spent 0 seconds defending my life with a knife. That is 44 years of daily carry without ever needing to use a blade against a living being. Obviously, I know nothing about self defense, but I do know a little bit about carrying a knife. In my experience, knives which are too heavy or bulky, or which have textures or shapes that make them uncomfortable to carry or accelerate clothing wear soon get left at home.

A Ladybug on your keychain is a more effective SD tool than a Gunting laying on your dresser because it ruined six shirts, two pairs of pants and a suit coat in the last month of being carried IWB. I won't presume to say the SS Police is a perfect SD knife. I will say that it is the most comfortable knife to carry IWB that I have tried, and I have tried a bunch of them. That makes it more likely to meet that requirement for effectiveness - you have to have it with you ALL THE TIME.

If the clothes specified were different or the carry method specified were different, my suggestion would be different. Had the first post said "I WILL have to use it against some predator, either two-legged or four-legged, regularly" my suggestion would be different. Had it said "My new job is in a high-crime area where I must expect to be attacked at least once a week", my suggestion would be different.

Frankly, an alert, fit, six foot three inch, two hundred plus pound man is not going to be very high on the average criminal's victim list. I suspect that he will spend a lot of time carrying the knife and very little using it. That is, if it is comfortable enough in his chosen carry method and doesn't destroy his clothes faster than they can be replaced.

A wise man once said your only real weapon is your brain. Everything else is just a tool. Use your weapon well and the choice of tool is less critical.
 
You are just trying to obfuscate thing now. Address the points.

And if I had a nickle for every time I went to a seminar not given by a professional LEO or actual streetwise trainer but by a dojo balerina who was all knowing in his arts superiority over everything else we had been trained in and what can or cannot be done legally and/or physically by the cop in full gear on the street, I would be a freaking multi-millionaire.

We are not sparring for point out there, but for our lives and those we were sworn to protect. Theory means nothing on the street, actions and results do.

I do not care how many belts you have, which schools you attended, what your opinions are. What I care about is what works, I have used several
different knives safely and successfully on the street- 3 of which I listed.

Whatever this gentleman selects, I hope it fits his hands, his needs and that he does seek professional guidance it its safe carry and use. Period.

I think you have spent too many years in a dojo trying to learn or combine arts for a perfect "system" and forgotten that the bast planning and training does not usually survive first contact in a real world confrontation.

BK6
 
bigkahunasix said:
You are just trying to obfuscate thing now. Address the points.

And if I had a nickle for every time I went to a seminar not given but a professional LEO or actual streetwise trainer but by a dojo balerina who was all knowing in his arts superiority over everything else we had been trained in and what can or cannot be done legally and/or physically by the cop in full gear on the street, I would be a freaking multi-millionaire.

We are not sparring for point out there, but for our lives and those we were sworn to protect. Theory means nothing on the street, actions and results do.

I do not care how many belts you have, which schools you attended, what your opinions are. What I care about is what works, I have used several
different knives safely and successfully on the street- 3 of which I listed.

Whatever this gentleman selects, I hope it fits his hands, his needs and that he does seek professional guidance it its safe carry and use. Period.

I think you have spent too many years in a dojo trying to learn or combine arts for a perfect "system" and forgotten that the bast planning and training does not usually survive first contact in a real world confrontation.

BK6
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now you just sound insecure. its ok though, ive come across guys like you before, who feel the need to get into dick measuring contests anytime he hears another person mention something about training. you are more concerned with making yourself look like a tough guy than anything else. and then you want to badmouth martial aritsts who have more credentials and more experience than you. when they are the ones who train cops in hand to hand combat skills in the first place. but hey if it makes you feel better about yourself, keep it right up.
 
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