Bevel grinding jigs

Oh, you are in a hurry?
Let's see some of these master pieces you have made with all that extra time for fit and finish:D
 
AVigil said:
Oh, you are in a hurry?
Let's see some of these master pieces you have made with all that extra time for fit and finish:D
Click to expand...
This is right, in the end what matters is the quality of the final product. Let's see pics of the best outcomes.
Machining is ever more advanced and pretty complicated curves can be programmed now.
For me this misses the point. I spent some time outside yesterday trying to get a dagger to come out symmetrical.
I enjoyed the sense of controlling and moving the grind to where I wanted it.
Buying a perfectly machined blank would be boring.
(Many years ago as a teen-aged weightlifter, my dad used to tell me that there are machines to lift all that weight and more...)
 
i honestly think a "Jig/Sled" is ok as a Beginners tool .. then you learn the correct angles and hold it by hand ..
there is nothing wrong with using "Training wheels" when you first ride a bike ,but as you get better you must take them off to learn /practice balance.
yea i an a free handed grinder !! always have always will be .. your Opinion is that as this is My Opinion..
there is so much more i feel whenever i grind a blade as i can feel/change the smallest thing just with a tiny movement or change of pressure on the blade..
at the start it was very slow to make as few mistakes as possible, then little faster into pretty fast , every knife i make is already heat treated, so speed and heat will kill the blade.. but once its ground its done..(except for hand finishing)....
i have reground literally hundreds of blades for a friend/knifemaker buddy of mine ,and regardless of size/shape it only takes a few minutes per side, you sometimes have to correct a mismatches plunge/swedge etc.. then change the belt to finer grit.. easy peasy lemon squeezy..
 
I filmed myself grinding a puukko blade. 100mm long 21mm wide 4mm thick(rhomboid cross section). 80CrV2, not hardened. It took me 6 min 35 sec to bring it to 0.8mm and to be ready for HT. My belt speed is a bit low - 12m/s (2400 fpm) and the belt is half worn 40 ceramic. A friend of mine that is pretty damn good with his hands does this for 3-4 min. He also can withstand much more heat on his fingers than me :D


By the way is there a way to cross the grindmarks when changing the grit so you can be sure you removed all from the previous one?(when you use a jig)

So yea , noone is saying jigs are bad or wrong. Just give a chance to the freehand grinding. When you have a good control on your hands , it will help you with handle shaping and everything else that you do on the grinder. Cheers

p.s. Please excuse my dirty jacket :d
 
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I really like the jig; it seems that I can grind faster and hold a more consistent angle so the blade grind is more even on both sides and it holds the blade more consistently, so the plunged line up better. I used to free hand grind everything years ago, but spent a lot of time chasing issues and trying to make both sides even. The jig, especially for the initial belt (50 or 60 grit) to get the bevel established has worked really well for me and I can do free hand from there for the clean up if I need. I want to get back to free hand grinding, but it is nice to be able to put the blade on the jig, go to town, flip it, do the other side and have them come out the same, especially for a saber grind blade.
 
Dimitar Popov said:
I filmed myself grinding a puukko blade. 100mm long 21mm wide 4mm thick(rhomboid cross section). 80CrV2, not hardened. It took me 6 min 35 sec to bring it to 0.8mm and to be ready for HT. My belt speed is a bit low - 12m/s (2400 fpm) and the belt is half worn 40 ceramic. A friend of mine that is pretty damn good with his hands does this for 3-4 min. He also can withstand much more heat on his fingers than me :D


By the way is there a way to cross the grindmarks when changing the grit so you can be sure you removed all from the previous one?(when you use a jig)

So yea , noone is saying jigs are bad or wrong. Just give a chance to the freehand grinding. When you have a good control on your hands , it will help you with handle shaping and everything else that you do on the grinder. Cheers

p.s. Please excuse my dirty jacket :d
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Holy crap...I'm still grinding by hand. Haven't finished half the bevel 90 minutes later...I'm OCD though...
 
Dimitar Popov said:
I filmed myself grinding a puukko blade. 100mm long 21mm wide 4mm thick(rhomboid cross section). 80CrV2, not hardened. It took me 6 min 35 sec to bring it to 0.8mm and to be ready for HT. My belt speed is a bit low - 12m/s (2400 fpm) and the belt is half worn 40 ceramic. A friend of mine that is pretty damn good with his hands does this for 3-4 min. He also can withstand much more heat on his fingers than me :D


By the way is there a way to cross the grindmarks when changing the grit so you can be sure you removed all from the previous one?(when you use a jig)

So yea , noone is saying jigs are bad or wrong. Just give a chance to the freehand grinding. When you have a good control on your hands , it will help you with handle shaping and everything else that you do on the grinder. Cheers

p.s. Please excuse my dirty jacket :d
Click to expand...
I agree about learning control.
I take it for granted that I make precise cuts with a saw or file, but if I let my son try it he is twisting off in 3 directions at once...
 
Richard338 said:
This is right, in the end what matters is the quality of the final product. Let's see pics of the best outcomes.
Machining is ever more advanced and pretty complicated curves can be programmed now.
For me this misses the point. I spent some time outside yesterday trying to get a dagger to come out symmetrical.
I enjoyed the sense of controlling and moving the grind to where I wanted it.
Buying a perfectly machined blank would be boring.
(Many years ago as a teen-aged weightlifter, my dad used to tell me that there are machines to lift all that weight and more...)
Click to expand...

If speed and lack of skill is the goal when getting a knife, that person should just buy one
 
Can’t feel the heat as well as I want with a jig and by the time I load the blank onto the jig, pause and flip and load again, I could have ground two freehand.
 
DanF said:
Can’t feel the heat as well as I want with a jig and by the time I load the blank onto the jig, pause and flip and load again, I could have ground two freehand.
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This is key, I grind with no gloves and monitor the heat on the blade.

Burning the blade and happen quickly if the blade is thin and the belt is worn.

Grind jigs have their place but limit the grind.

Anyone who grinds free hand know at times a slight twist to raise the grind line is needed and can not be done with a jig. You can see this with saber grind toward the tip.
 
I grind with the blade off of the side of the jig usually so my hand it on it anyway. I take a piece of sponge, soak it in water and use that to push a bit against the blade as I grind. That way it keeps it nice and cool and if I start to feel any heat, I stop and cool down completely.
 
Dimitar Popov said:
I filmed myself grinding a puukko blade. 100mm long 21mm wide 4mm thick(rhomboid cross section). 80CrV2, not hardened. It took me 6 min 35 sec to bring it to 0.8mm and to be ready for HT. My belt speed is a bit low - 12m/s (2400 fpm) and the belt is half worn 40 ceramic. A friend of mine that is pretty damn good with his hands does this for 3-4 min. He also can withstand much more heat on his fingers than me :D


By the way is there a way to cross the grindmarks when changing the grit so you can be sure you removed all from the previous one?(when you use a jig)

So yea , noone is saying jigs are bad or wrong. Just give a chance to the freehand grinding. When you have a good control on your hands , it will help you with handle shaping and everything else that you do on the grinder. Cheers

p.s. Please excuse my dirty jacket :d
Click to expand...
Whatever works for you my friend, whatever works.......:thumbsup: Even if that is grinding with ceramic belts on 12 m/s ................:D
I would like to see other part of that video ....grinding hardened puukko and show us when you think it is ready for hand sanding :)
 
DanF said:
Can’t feel the heat as well as I want with a jig and by the time I load the blank onto the jig, pause and flip and load again, I could have ground two freehand.
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Dan my friend .......... no , you can not grind two free hand while i load..flip....load .....whatever . It is physically impossible to do that .You just can’t have control if you use high pressure and high speed as i can with jig .............
There are many different jig , on some of them you don t need to flip anything....just flip whole jig and grind other side .About feeling temperature ..........very little temperature is generates when you grinding at high speed ,when i say high speed i mean on 6000 -8000 SFPM ,plus the jig takes over part of the temperature.
 
AVigil said:
Oh, you are in a hurry?
Let's see some of these master pieces you have made with all that extra time for fit and finish:D
Click to expand...
Why is that important in this topic?
Accept the challenge and we shall see in action what works best :p
Let see how you grind free hand 5 inch long blade from 5mm thick M2 steel on 64 HRC ?
 
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I don't understand why it has to be either/or discussion. Jigs are a very big part of knifemaking, it's what usually makes it easier and/or faster and/or preciser. Every step can be made with or without the jig, in the end it is the results that matter. IMHO a good knifemaker will be able to do the job with or without the jig. But there is no valid argument against using a jig if it can achieve what you are looking for.

I revised the N Wheelers WIP thread (at least for 3rd time in last 3 years) on Larins knife. At least 90 percent of steps use fixtures/jigs and specialized tools. At least 90 percent of us wouldn't be able to do a Nick Wheeler knife even if we had all his jigs and tools. So it is not the jig doing the job, but the man operating it.

Even then, I agree that jigs can't do everything. Take my example of a 8" chef knife with distal taper and convexed edge. The jig can take you 70 percent of the way very fast, from there it is hands on (for me).
 
Natlek said:
Why is that important in this topic?
Accept the challenge and we shall see in action what works best :p
Let see how you grind free hand 5 inch long blade from 5mm thick M2 steel on 64 HRC ?
Click to expand...

Hahaha, you have to be kidding? You think that is a challenge? Here are a few 4" Kwaikens in M2.
You act like this is a hard thing lol
S0XFOhA.jpg

lNE80ME.jpg

SS2Mb0Y.jpg
 
FredyCro said:
I don't understand why it has to be either/or discussion
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Jigs are fine, but to claim a person can not master free hand grinding is kooky.

It is like a new kid at a BBQ restaurant to say "you can not master smoking on an offset smoker and you have to use a pellet grill". The lack of experience and skill often project their insecurities on others.
 
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