Bladeforums and China: Broaden your perspectives, reconsider your prejudices.

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This thread should probably be in political. But it would cut out all the non-paying members being able to contribute.
 
22-rimfire said:
This thread should probably be in political. But it would cut out all the non-paying members being able to contribute.
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It is also directly related to knives, however. I'm honestly impressed that, with the exception of a couple users, this thread has maintained a level and polite discussion and exchange of opinion without bashing or ad hominem.

I could easily see this getting moved to the political section, but, I hope that this can remain civil and constructive enough to remain in General. It's even stayed more-or-less on topic so far, which, again, blows my mind a little bit.
 
Comeuppance said:
It is also directly related to knives, however. I'm honestly impressed that, with the exception of a couple users, this thread has maintained a level and polite discussion and exchange of opinion without bashing or ad hominem.

I could easily see this getting moved to the political section, but, I hope that this can remain civil and constructive enough to remain in General. It's even stayed more-or-less on topic so far, which, again, blows my mind a little bit.
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i agree this convo has been pretty civilized so far hope it dont go to politcal
 
Comeuppance said:
Please stop being antagonistic and insulting. You have contributed nothing to this discussion but dismissal without content or arguments or information of your own. If you're not willing to to anything but stand on a pedestal and look down on those having a discussion, then I would kindly ask you to refrain from posting in this thread until such time that you have a coherent point to make that doesn't involve demeaning statements, dismissive remarks, or implied or direct insults.


You stated you did not want to speed up this thread's demise, but you are actively doing so with your posts.
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Sorry man.

I will bow out and let you continue on with your personal idea's of what is happening in the world, and who's to blame based on what you saw on the news tonight.

Please go ahead and continue your discussion that only involves those members who are going to follow the path you've set here, even though it's so ridiculously incorrect that it's sad how little you really understand about global economics......but ya, go ahead and play TV evangelist....

This is your thread. You want to ignore the foundation, and underlying fundamentals of what you're talking about and want people to follow along with your narrative, be my guest.
 
JR88FAN said:
Sorry man.

I will bow out and let you continue on with your personal idea's of what is happening in the world, and who's to blame based on what you saw on the news tonight.

Please go ahead and continue your discussion that only involves those members who are going to follow the path you've set here, even though it's so ridiculously incorrect that it's sad how little you really understand about global economics......but ya, go ahead and play TV evangelist....

This is your thread. You want to ignore the foundation, and underlying fundamentals of what you're talking about and want people to follow along with your narrative, be my guest.
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Leaving with all the grace and class of a sack full of bricks rolling down a hill, complete with parting shots and a continued lack of actual informative content.
 
It is a very good thread, we just got to remember that it is near impossible to change someones mind by just saying something to them. If their opinion is going to change it will probably be awhile from now after we all had plenty of time to read, think, and process everybodies views on this subject. Its nice to see everybodies point of views on this though. Its a subject that we should share with each other, and everyone should be able to participate in.
 
Sigsog226 said:
It is a very good thread, we just got to remember that it is near impossible to change someones mind by just saying something to them. If their opinion is going to change it will probably be awhile from now after we all had plenty of time to read, think, and process everybodies views on this subject. Its nice to see everybodies point of views on this though. Its a subject that we should share with each other, and everyone should be able to participate in.
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It really is nice to see well-expressed opinions and perspectives. I honestly don't mind people who don't buy Chinese knives at all - they have their reasons, and some are so well-thought-out that I have to question my own stance. The best debates are where nobody is insulted and both parties walk away with a more complete perspective.

Nobody ever changed their mind by being called an idiot. Some users here still need to pick up on that...
 
Sigsog226 said:
It is a very good thread, we just got to remember that it is near impossible to change someones mind by just saying something to them. If their opinion is going to change it will probably be awhile from now after we all had plenty of time to read, think, and process everybodies views on this subject. Its nice to see everybodies point of views on this though. Its a subject that we should share with each other, and everyone should be able to participate in.
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agree nice to see how others think and come to their conclusions. the best part is im not drinking their koolaid and i dont want them drinkinf outta my canteen lol
 
I definitely have to chime in on this thread.

The reason we try to encourage people to buy knives made in the USA is because we want to encourage more knife manufacturing right here. Right now I know of several companies with awesome folder designs and they can not find a place in the USA to manufacture them. I have talked to several people who are well known in the industry and they say the problem is there are not enough people qualified to work the equipment and make the knives to the quality needed. The more people willing to not care, the less money that stays here and the less likely the companies manufacturing knives are going to be willing to keep making them here. It also means less people are going to take the time to learn the craft because there are no jobs here for people who can make them. This has nothing to do with quality from different countries (although I personally think most USA Made Knives are better) but has to do with not letting an entire industry phase out of our country over the next few generations.

I personally do not blast anyone for their purchases and I never will. At the same time every little bit helps. I personally go out of my way to buy local, buy US Made and support my own Country as much as possible. I don't see why anyone should have a problem with that! I can only hope others will do the same!
 
Only the extremely rich benefit from 'globalization' of the economy.
Normal people will lose their jobs to delocalization to China etc...
 
Comeuppance said:
Leaving with all the grace and class of a sack full of bricks rolling down a hill, complete with parting shots and a continued lack of actual informative content.
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Nevermind.

I said I was leaving so I will.

Thanks for your thread filled with "informative content" .....

Too bad this is a public forum, it scares to think how many people might read this and think that your view on the global economy has one ounce of accuracy to it.

Let's all just try build a "better tank" ...... How wonderful ......
 
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whitty said:
I definitely have to chime in on this thread.

The reason we try to encourage people to buy knives made in the USA is because we want to encourage more knife manufacturing right here. Right now I know of several companies with awesome folder designs and they can not find a place in the USA to manufacture them. I have talked to several people who are well known in the industry and they say the problem is there are not enough people qualified to work the equipment and make the knives to the quality needed. The more people willing to not care, the less money that stays here and the less likely the companies manufacturing knives are going to be willing to keep making them here. It also means less people are going to take the time to learn the craft because there are no jobs here for people who can make them. This has nothing to do with quality from different countries (although I personally think most USA Made Knives are better) but has to do with not letting an entire industry phase out of our country over the next few generations.

I personally do not blast anyone for their purchases and I never will. At the same time every little bit helps. I personally go out of my way to buy local, buy US Made and support my own Country as much as possible. I don't see why anyone should have a problem with that! I can only hope others will do the same!
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you are exactly right but said companies don't want to let no experience run their machines kudos to them i totally agree. but companies that out source to china don't care that same Chinese person has the same experience why ? because of labor laws their they get a shit payout and move the next in line to that machine 100xs if need be how do we here compete with that ?
 
JR88FAN said:
Must feel really empowering to start a thread based on BS, and then continue to spread thar
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hey man this was supposed to be a thread to talk about it not attack feel free to join in to the talk just saying
 
whitty said:
I definitely have to chime in on this thread.

The reason we try to encourage people to buy knives made in the USA is because we want to encourage more knife manufacturing right here. Right now I know of several companies with awesome folder designs and they can not find a place in the USA to manufacture them. I have talked to several people who are well known in the industry and they say the problem is there are not enough people qualified to work the equipment and make the knives to the quality needed. The more people willing to not care, the less money that stays here and the less likely the companies manufacturing knives are going to be willing to keep making them here. It also means less people are going to take the time to learn the craft because there are no jobs here for people who can make them. This has nothing to do with quality from different countries (although I personally think most USA Made Knives are better) but has to do with not letting an entire industry phase out of our country over the next few generations.

I personally do not blast anyone for their purchases and I never will. At the same time every little bit helps. I personally go out of my way to buy local, buy US Made and support my own Country as much as possible. I don't see why anyone should have a problem with that! I can only hope others will do the same!
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I'm all for US-manufactured knives. I was happy to take the trek to my mecca (Spyderco HQ in Golden, CO) and buy a knife that was made less than a few hundred feet from where I was standing. I felt a real connection with the knife and the location. I even went back and met the Glessers - Sal, his brother, and his wife - and personally thanked them for their commitment to quality.

I also, however, appreciate the value found in import knives. Spyderco, Benchmade, and Kershaw all have US-made and Chinese-made knives in their lineup just to round out the price ranges at which their products are available.

I don't think that it should be a black and white, all-or-none choice. I want all sources of knives to be appreciated equally and fairly, based on their inherent qualities as opposed to prejudices or skewed perspectives.

The success and quality of Benchmade, ZT, Spyderco, Chris Reeve, and many other US-based manufacturers will hopefully pave the way for more local production of knives. Certainly, we have Crucible and Carpenter on our soil to provide the steel, and the knife hobby seems to be blowing up to some degree. I keep seeing more and more quality knives out and about, in stores and online. There's a real demand for quality knives these days, and I think that will lead to more US production.

I'm hopeful and want to see what you're talking about.
 
The quality of knives produced in China is mostly dependent on the company that they are making the knife for and their contractural requirements. It's easy to just reject something that is not properly made. The repetition trains the workers by doing. Same could be done here in the US.
 
whitty said:
I definitely have to chime in on this thread.

The reason we try to encourage people to buy knives made in the USA is because we want to encourage more knife manufacturing right here. Right now I know of several companies with awesome folder designs and they can not find a place in the USA to manufacture them. I have talked to several people who are well known in the industry and they say the problem is there are not enough people qualified to work the equipment and make the knives to the quality needed. The more people willing to not care, the less money that stays here and the less likely the companies manufacturing knives are going to be willing to keep making them here. It also means less people are going to take the time to learn the craft because there are no jobs here for people who can make them. This has nothing to do with quality from different countries (although I personally think most USA Made Knives are better) but has to do with not letting an entire industry phase out of our country over the next few generations.

I personally do not blast anyone for their purchases and I never will. At the same time every little bit helps. I personally go out of my way to buy local, buy US Made and support my own Country as much as possible. I don't see why anyone should have a problem with that! I can only hope others will do the same!
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I like that Oregon has several knife Manufacturers with enough options to keep a vast majority of my money in State..Leatherman and Benchmade being two of my favorites.

As far as my Nationalism showing, its about American Pride, and self preservation of our economy.

I vote with my money.
 
It's pretty straightforward for me:

1) Communist China is a political "frenemy" of the United States and has been from the jump. My personally fueling their economy when I have entirely viable alternatives to that when it comes to knives is unacceptable to me as a veteran.

2) I don't trust Chinese manufacture at all without a western intermediary that carries formidable weight. Chines companies tried to poison my dogs by cheating on protein content using toxic chemicals. I don't care that that isn't about knives specifically, it's about what is found to be acceptable as business practices.

3) What these "please think nicer thoughts about Chinese knives" threads really amount to is the endless seeking of consumer validation. We get it. You need "ground rules" on these threads so as to not be called a political traitor, or a domestic knife industry murder accomplice who has the blood of Schrade, Camillus, and others upon your ratty nylon wallet. Why do you seemingly crave absolution from your detractors? You shouldn't care about being "all of the above," because you are legion.
 
You get what you pay for, more or less. If you buy a $4.99 knife no matter where it's made, that's what you are going to get. If a corporation seeks out a Chinese manufacturer to make some cheap knives, the knives will be built to the desired price point. Chinese manufacturers can make good products, but they won't be cheap. Possibly less expensive than equivalent goods made in the USA or the EU, but automation is now changing that a bit. A factor not considered here is the extra "cost" or "value" that a USA or EU manufacturer think their name adds to the item, no matter where it's made.

I've owned knives made in China in the past, they were what I could afford and I got what I paid for, serviceable knives that held up for a while, but ultimately wore out because of the quality of the steel. I have spent about 5 or 6 times more money on each of the USA made knives I carry now than I spent on the "made in China" knives. Only time will tell if the "made in USA" knives will last 5 times as long. I use my knives fairly hard, a casual user might never wear out a "made in China" knife of reasonable quality
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ctfxp4Crk1I <---It's a video showing how a pocket knife is made.

So to me IMHO, when you see that most of the process is automated. It doesn't matter if it's punched out on a machine here in North America or on a machine in China. What does matter is the materials and design. And typically a USA knife is made from better material and design, then a Chinese knife.

it's also marketing. For every good Chinese knife out there, there's a least a 100 cheap, tacky, and wonky knives out there. So I think most people automatically associate them with junk. Where as with USA made knives for every cheap, tacky, wonky knife there seems to be 100 really good quality ones, so when people buy one they believe are getting their moneys worth.

This is a tale as old as mass produced knives itself, it's a tough fluctuating market, and maybe one day China may be the best? As there was once a time where a "Sheffield made knife" was considered the absolute best in the world, and Japanese knives were cheap junk. Maybe someday it might be Mexico?? There is many other factors that effect knife making other then "Cost of labor" For instance when the British auto industry tanked in the 70's, all the steel plants had to shut down. Lack of good quality local steel, and your production costs sky rocket. Same would be for the US, if knife makers had to start importing steel.

So to me if it's a good knife, it doesn't matter where it's made.
 
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