Greg, You have posted some fantastic knives. I have collected Creeks and Cargills for a few years and most of the pictures I would post are duplicates of what you have already posted. Plus your pictures are much better than mine. I will post a few of my more unusual ones. I also have several editions of the Smoke Signals. If I have any that you don't I would be happy to provide you with a copy. Just need to figure out which ones I may have that you need.
Bob Cargill Cripple Creek Knives
- Thread starter Augie
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That great to hear!! If you start on page 1 of this thread and go page by page you will see what Smoke Signals we have in here. It amounts to all 4 quarters
of 1983. Those are the only ones that I know about. Do you have any others?
How about any TA-NA-SI knives that aren't posted yet?
Any ads or articles pertaining to Cripple Creeks?
And of course, any and all pics of whatever Cargill's or Cripple Creeks you care to post.
And most of all...........Welcome to "Augies Quest". Augie is the one who came to Bladeforums and started this thread
looking for info on "Cargill Cripple Creeks". Loves the knives just can't find much info on them. He isn't alone. I figured we'd try
and help them out as much as we can.
I don't think anyone outside of Bob himself can be called an expert but a few of us together just might come close.
It's pretty informal in here. Just no bad mouthin' or gettin' wound up over nothing.
Greg
of 1983. Those are the only ones that I know about. Do you have any others?
How about any TA-NA-SI knives that aren't posted yet?
Any ads or articles pertaining to Cripple Creeks?
And of course, any and all pics of whatever Cargill's or Cripple Creeks you care to post.
And most of all...........Welcome to "Augies Quest". Augie is the one who came to Bladeforums and started this thread
looking for info on "Cargill Cripple Creeks". Loves the knives just can't find much info on them. He isn't alone. I figured we'd try
and help them out as much as we can.
I don't think anyone outside of Bob himself can be called an expert but a few of us together just might come close.
It's pretty informal in here. Just no bad mouthin' or gettin' wound up over nothing.
Greg
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A few tips on taking knife photos. "TURN OFF THE FLASH" Outside on a cloudy day without the sun peeking thru is good.
Use a non reflective background like a file folder, manila envelope or the inside of a paper bag. Wood is good too.
Towels and fabrics are not good.
Don't use black or white or any color that is over saturated. Like really, really red or blue and so on.
Don't get any bright light on the knife. The shiny metal will just reflect it and over expose the shot.
When you have a bright glare on the knife, the camera will darken the whole picture until the bright spot
is neutral. That's why you see pictures with something that could be a knife underneath a ball of glare and
darkness all around. Takes a bit of trial and error but most people get the hang of it if you don't get in a hurry.
A good example of a outdoor shot is on page 7 and posted by pmek5. Nice shot.
Greg
Use a non reflective background like a file folder, manila envelope or the inside of a paper bag. Wood is good too.
Towels and fabrics are not good.
Don't use black or white or any color that is over saturated. Like really, really red or blue and so on.
Don't get any bright light on the knife. The shiny metal will just reflect it and over expose the shot.
When you have a bright glare on the knife, the camera will darken the whole picture until the bright spot
is neutral. That's why you see pictures with something that could be a knife underneath a ball of glare and
darkness all around. Takes a bit of trial and error but most people get the hang of it if you don't get in a hurry.
A good example of a outdoor shot is on page 7 and posted by pmek5. Nice shot.
Greg
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When taking pics indoors try to use CFL bulbs with a 5000K rating. Less than that and you get yellow light.
You don't want yellow light. Standard light bulbs give off yellow light.
You really only need a couple of 65 watt equivalent CFL bulbs. DON'T USE THE FLASH
Same deal with the glare. Don't get bright light directly on the knife. If you can, diffuse the light with
something like drafting paper, wax paper or a white sheet. Set the knife in a spot that doesn't get direct light using the same
type of background as stated above. You might have to re-position the knife for the light to hit it right.
When it comes to knives, a photo taken in less light is better than bright lights shining on it.
Kind of like oiling a knife. Pouring a quart of oil on a knife for lube isn't going to yield good results.
A tripod or a way to keep the camera steady to avoid blurry photos is a plus. A real plus.
Using a 2 or 3 second delay before the camera takes the shot helps a bunch when using a tripod.
Greg
You don't want yellow light. Standard light bulbs give off yellow light.
You really only need a couple of 65 watt equivalent CFL bulbs. DON'T USE THE FLASH
Same deal with the glare. Don't get bright light directly on the knife. If you can, diffuse the light with
something like drafting paper, wax paper or a white sheet. Set the knife in a spot that doesn't get direct light using the same
type of background as stated above. You might have to re-position the knife for the light to hit it right.
When it comes to knives, a photo taken in less light is better than bright lights shining on it.
Kind of like oiling a knife. Pouring a quart of oil on a knife for lube isn't going to yield good results.
A tripod or a way to keep the camera steady to avoid blurry photos is a plus. A real plus.
Using a 2 or 3 second delay before the camera takes the shot helps a bunch when using a tripod.
Greg
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Augie
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And Greg,I need to thank you again and all the others for contributing to this thread, I think you guys are well on your way to making this something special for the Cripple Creek/Bob Cargill collector.
Rookie82
Gold Member
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- Nov 25, 2014
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- 2,197
Looking at old internet archives of Bob's old website, I found a few things to post here.
These are some images from his site.
"May 16, 2014
“The Things That Made Me Make Knives” - by Bob Cargill
I’ve always liked making something from nothing. Many years ago, my brother and I made a “turtle head chopper-off-er” out of an old Studebaker car spring with genuine Friction Tape handles. That started it all!
I have always carried a pocket knife. And I’ve always liked tradin’ and sellin’ em. In fact, one time when I was around 10 years old I traded an old scout knife for a bicycle. I guess a trade-up. Looking back... maybe a trade-down.
My brother and I both attended the Sporting Goods show in Chicago each year at the Stockyards with our Dad and Uncles, sportsmen all. Each year my brother and I would buy a switch blade fishing knife made by Schrade cutlery. There were 12 to choose from on each display board. If I remember rightly, they were expensive... $2.50 each! Too bad they outlawed ‘em in 1957.
After a few years of buying and selling knives, I found that I had several old pocket knives laying around. It was then that I discovered that I had caught a bug called “knife-collecting”. I attended flea markets, antique shops, gun shows and any place I thought might have some knives for sale.
One thing leads to the next. After visiting many different states, I found many knives in disrepair and decided that I would buy them and fix them. I replaced broken blades, broken springs, broken handles of many kinds and I was pretty good at it so I started making my own and wasn’t too bad at that either.
Fixing leads to making! I started making my knives full time in the early 1970s. It started with the WR Case Cutlery Company in Bradford PA. I became an Authorized Case Knife repairman! I didn’t work for them, but worked for myself by buying parts from them to repair Case customers’ knives that were referred to me by Case. After an 8 year run of doing this, I had to stop, when my own knives demanded all my time.
I love making my knives! Most of my ideas for my custom knives come to me in my dreams. I keep a notebook beside my bed and will either write down my thoughts and sketches, or get up in the middle of the night and go to my shop and start working on the new concept. I called these ideas my “Knifemares” and believe me I’ve had some strange ones!
Making custom knives one at a time was a slow, costly process that made the knives a bit expensive. So in 1981 I created methods that would help me make them faster. I did this under my new company name, the Cripple Creek brand. The name and themes and motifs of Cripple Creek are all based on my knowledge of the American Indians, the 10 Little Indians for pattern numbers, the 3 legged Buffalo, Sachem, Wounded Knee etc etc.. Why the 3 legged buffalo for the Cripple Creek logo? Well, my Daughter Belinda found an image of it in her coin book. The 1937 Buffalo Nickel die had broken and the beast had a broken (missing) leg. In 1973 I was involved in a serious automobile accident. As a result, In 1976 I lost my lower right leg. So it was only natural that I adopt the Cripple Buffalo, since we were of kindred spirits!
Anyway, my new, faster knife-making process involved not cutting out parts for one knife at a time, but cutting out parts for as many knives as I thought I needed at the time, incorporating the same motions of assembly, creating a one man assembly line.
I only worked “half” days on my knives... 7AM until 7PM! I could start out Monday Morning and finish a complete run of knives by quitting time Friday night. I made all of my knives to withstand hard use. But they really didn’t see much use, due to collectors realizing that I made so few knives compared to other knife companies. After all, I was still making them one at a time, not mass produced.
In 1993 the demand for my knives became so great, that I decided to hand-pick a knife company to sell Cripple Creek to. That way the need could be fulfilled. But, as many of you know, it didn’t work out as I had planned.
Cripple Creek has had its ups and it downs but is still one of the most collectible and respected knives on the market today. I will not name any names, lest I forget one. But I would like to thank all of the faithful friends and knife customers for your years of devotion. You know who you are. May God Bless you all…. Bob Cargill"
And here is some more info about one of his Knifemare knives
August 12, 2013
Many People have nightmares, I've had a few in my life but a lot of the time I
dreamed about knives! I would wake up in the middle of the night with an idea for
a knife, I called these my "Knifemares". I kept a notepad beside my bed to write
down these ideas or sometimes I would even get up and go to work on my idea,
no matter what time it was. This particular knife is a cross between a Fantasy
Knife and a Japanese Samurai sword. As you can see it is a wild looking knife
and I named it the "Fantantosy". Quite a bit of work went into this knife with
countless hours of making. The knife is made with Nickel Silver, 440C stainless
steel blades and springs with Green Snail inserts for the handles. It is dated 1985
and was made in my Lockport IL shop, 1 Year before moving to Tennessee. I
sold the knife and mailed it to the person that bought it!
In 2005 ,or thereabouts, my mailman delivered a package from the Postmaster
of Boise Idaho addressed to me! Inside this package was another package (a
jiffy mailer that was badly damaged) and inside was this knife! I will never know
what had happened to this knife in the US mail except that it had to be lost in the
mail system for 20 years or more! I could imagine it floating from PO to PO and
finally after all those years a kind Postmaster recognized the name and returned
it to me!
After 20 years I did not remember who bought the knife and I do not know why
they never received it and especially did not contact me? It's has been almost 30
years since I mailed the knife and it is time that I put it up for sale! (unless the
person comes forward to claim it) the price is $2000 for it and this story.
These are some images from his site.
"May 16, 2014
“The Things That Made Me Make Knives” - by Bob Cargill
I’ve always liked making something from nothing. Many years ago, my brother and I made a “turtle head chopper-off-er” out of an old Studebaker car spring with genuine Friction Tape handles. That started it all!
I have always carried a pocket knife. And I’ve always liked tradin’ and sellin’ em. In fact, one time when I was around 10 years old I traded an old scout knife for a bicycle. I guess a trade-up. Looking back... maybe a trade-down.
My brother and I both attended the Sporting Goods show in Chicago each year at the Stockyards with our Dad and Uncles, sportsmen all. Each year my brother and I would buy a switch blade fishing knife made by Schrade cutlery. There were 12 to choose from on each display board. If I remember rightly, they were expensive... $2.50 each! Too bad they outlawed ‘em in 1957.
After a few years of buying and selling knives, I found that I had several old pocket knives laying around. It was then that I discovered that I had caught a bug called “knife-collecting”. I attended flea markets, antique shops, gun shows and any place I thought might have some knives for sale.
One thing leads to the next. After visiting many different states, I found many knives in disrepair and decided that I would buy them and fix them. I replaced broken blades, broken springs, broken handles of many kinds and I was pretty good at it so I started making my own and wasn’t too bad at that either.
Fixing leads to making! I started making my knives full time in the early 1970s. It started with the WR Case Cutlery Company in Bradford PA. I became an Authorized Case Knife repairman! I didn’t work for them, but worked for myself by buying parts from them to repair Case customers’ knives that were referred to me by Case. After an 8 year run of doing this, I had to stop, when my own knives demanded all my time.
I love making my knives! Most of my ideas for my custom knives come to me in my dreams. I keep a notebook beside my bed and will either write down my thoughts and sketches, or get up in the middle of the night and go to my shop and start working on the new concept. I called these ideas my “Knifemares” and believe me I’ve had some strange ones!
Making custom knives one at a time was a slow, costly process that made the knives a bit expensive. So in 1981 I created methods that would help me make them faster. I did this under my new company name, the Cripple Creek brand. The name and themes and motifs of Cripple Creek are all based on my knowledge of the American Indians, the 10 Little Indians for pattern numbers, the 3 legged Buffalo, Sachem, Wounded Knee etc etc.. Why the 3 legged buffalo for the Cripple Creek logo? Well, my Daughter Belinda found an image of it in her coin book. The 1937 Buffalo Nickel die had broken and the beast had a broken (missing) leg. In 1973 I was involved in a serious automobile accident. As a result, In 1976 I lost my lower right leg. So it was only natural that I adopt the Cripple Buffalo, since we were of kindred spirits!
Anyway, my new, faster knife-making process involved not cutting out parts for one knife at a time, but cutting out parts for as many knives as I thought I needed at the time, incorporating the same motions of assembly, creating a one man assembly line.
I only worked “half” days on my knives... 7AM until 7PM! I could start out Monday Morning and finish a complete run of knives by quitting time Friday night. I made all of my knives to withstand hard use. But they really didn’t see much use, due to collectors realizing that I made so few knives compared to other knife companies. After all, I was still making them one at a time, not mass produced.
In 1993 the demand for my knives became so great, that I decided to hand-pick a knife company to sell Cripple Creek to. That way the need could be fulfilled. But, as many of you know, it didn’t work out as I had planned.
Cripple Creek has had its ups and it downs but is still one of the most collectible and respected knives on the market today. I will not name any names, lest I forget one. But I would like to thank all of the faithful friends and knife customers for your years of devotion. You know who you are. May God Bless you all…. Bob Cargill"
And here is some more info about one of his Knifemare knives
August 12, 2013
Many People have nightmares, I've had a few in my life but a lot of the time I
dreamed about knives! I would wake up in the middle of the night with an idea for
a knife, I called these my "Knifemares". I kept a notepad beside my bed to write
down these ideas or sometimes I would even get up and go to work on my idea,
no matter what time it was. This particular knife is a cross between a Fantasy
Knife and a Japanese Samurai sword. As you can see it is a wild looking knife
and I named it the "Fantantosy". Quite a bit of work went into this knife with
countless hours of making. The knife is made with Nickel Silver, 440C stainless
steel blades and springs with Green Snail inserts for the handles. It is dated 1985
and was made in my Lockport IL shop, 1 Year before moving to Tennessee. I
sold the knife and mailed it to the person that bought it!
In 2005 ,or thereabouts, my mailman delivered a package from the Postmaster
of Boise Idaho addressed to me! Inside this package was another package (a
jiffy mailer that was badly damaged) and inside was this knife! I will never know
what had happened to this knife in the US mail except that it had to be lost in the
mail system for 20 years or more! I could imagine it floating from PO to PO and
finally after all those years a kind Postmaster recognized the name and returned
it to me!
After 20 years I did not remember who bought the knife and I do not know why
they never received it and especially did not contact me? It's has been almost 30
years since I mailed the knife and it is time that I put it up for sale! (unless the
person comes forward to claim it) the price is $2000 for it and this story.
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2004
- Messages
- 6,425
Split / Wedge. I've seen custom makers not being able to get a taper like this. Done in Bob's shop with 1980's equipment at best.
Greg
Indeed.. Well stated Greg, a true split back three blade Whittler on two springs, with wonderfully tapered wedge, with ancient equipment to boot.
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- Nov 18, 2001
- Messages
- 3,699
Good stuff Rookie! Quite a story and some nice thumbnails of his knives. "The Gambler Knife" along with "The Barrel Knife" is legendary.
I might have a Flip-Loc around here somewhere. There are 5 of them in one photo above.
I couldn't agree more Anthony. By the way I added a Copperhead photo to my post on page 7 regarding the TA-NA-SI knives.
Trying to get figured out exactly how many patterns / knives there are in the series.
Greg
We now know there are 6 different knives in the TA-NA-SI series.
I might have a Flip-Loc around here somewhere. There are 5 of them in one photo above.
I couldn't agree more Anthony. By the way I added a Copperhead photo to my post on page 7 regarding the TA-NA-SI knives.
Trying to get figured out exactly how many patterns / knives there are in the series.
Greg
We now know there are 6 different knives in the TA-NA-SI series.
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Here is what's equivalent to a hens tooth. A Cripple Creek Sunfish. A new forum member and Cripple Creek collector provided the photo. Thanks Bryan !!
If you read the 1983 Smoke Signals you should remember that Cargill was thinking about adding a Sunfish pattern to the line of Cripple Creeks. He didn't.
As far as I know there are only two of these. Levine's guide states there are 2 honey bone. Cargill's design. Got to be a real handful. These fellas were made in 1982. Cargill called this pattern the "Sasquatch".
Greg
Correction to the statement above. There were 3 Sunfish made.
The 2 presented here and a 3rd Pearl one Cargill gave to his wife, June.
The second of the 2 Honeybone Sunfish made.
Even though they are different in color they are both considered to be Honeybone.
If you read the 1983 Smoke Signals you should remember that Cargill was thinking about adding a Sunfish pattern to the line of Cripple Creeks. He didn't.
As far as I know there are only two of these. Levine's guide states there are 2 honey bone. Cargill's design. Got to be a real handful. These fellas were made in 1982. Cargill called this pattern the "Sasquatch".
Greg
Correction to the statement above. There were 3 Sunfish made.
The 2 presented here and a 3rd Pearl one Cargill gave to his wife, June.
The second of the 2 Honeybone Sunfish made.
Even though they are different in color they are both considered to be Honeybone.
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pmek5
Gold Member
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Interesting design.The Flip-Loc was patented by Cargill. So was the Bolster Lock. I didn't quite show how the lock works in this photo. I'll see if I can shoot some
others that help explain it.
Greg
A picture is worth a thousand words.
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- Nov 18, 2001
- Messages
- 3,699
Cripple Creek ad promoting 3 new knives. The Coffin and Carpenter Jacks and the Clasp knife. We'll add to this post as the pics come along.
This Clasp knife just below the ad has no etching or date. Has a different pull and a sabre grind.
Could be an earlier piece or it could be a proto for the other ones to come. Can't say for sure. The 2nd Clasp knife is more like the one in the ad.
More later.
Greg
Coffin Jack with Red Bone.
Carpenter Jack
Coffin Jack in Stag. A PROTO !!
This Clasp knife just below the ad has no etching or date. Has a different pull and a sabre grind.
Could be an earlier piece or it could be a proto for the other ones to come. Can't say for sure. The 2nd Clasp knife is more like the one in the ad.
More later.
Greg
Coffin Jack with Red Bone.
Carpenter Jack
Coffin Jack in Stag. A PROTO !!
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Rookie82
Gold Member
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- Nov 25, 2014
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I always loved the look of that sunfish. It is a true sunfish shaped knife. I wish he had made a run of 50 of those. They are the coolest looking fat knife that I have ever saw. Whenever someone is talking about sunfish or elephant toe knives, I always say "have you ever seen that Cripple Creek stag sunfish?" That knife should be at the Smithsonian!
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- Sep 2, 2004
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I gotta say, this is an awesome thread! I don't own any Cargill knives but I've known for a long time that I should have bought some when I had the chance back in the 80s. I can see in my minds eye the Blood Brothers set displayed at a local Cutlery World.
I am really enjoying the pictures and all the documentation presented here. Thanks so much!
I am really enjoying the pictures and all the documentation presented here. Thanks so much!
Thank you for sharing, great looking knife.Butter Bean Whittler. The last knife to be made before moving from Lockport, IL to Old Fort, TN. Courtesy of Bryan.
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Bryan provided us with a page from Bernie Levines Guide to Knives and Their Values. 4th edition I believe. Any edition past the 4th
does not contain the accuracy or integrity of a guide Levine demands.
Before we move much further away from the original patterns, I thought it would be a good idea to post the info that Cargill and Levine
put together. It involves the Cripple Creek knives from 1981 thru 1984 and is as accurate of a printed accounting you can find. There
are some questions that have risen as far as the number of certain knives after this info was printed but it is still the best guide out there.
Probably 99% accurate.
Anyone ever see a Doctor's Pattern like the one below? I never have either but there is at least one out there.
Greg
does not contain the accuracy or integrity of a guide Levine demands.
Before we move much further away from the original patterns, I thought it would be a good idea to post the info that Cargill and Levine
put together. It involves the Cripple Creek knives from 1981 thru 1984 and is as accurate of a printed accounting you can find. There
are some questions that have risen as far as the number of certain knives after this info was printed but it is still the best guide out there.
Probably 99% accurate.
Anyone ever see a Doctor's Pattern like the one below? I never have either but there is at least one out there.
Greg
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