Brands comparable to busse

[dingy]

sodak you are logical , but i think steel and blades different .

with 0.5% carbon content , INFI does not getting the retention that 3v has when talke about cutting & slicing clean media , that is what i guess.

think it another way , is INFI a poor one for cutting & slicing clean media? i do not think so.

think about a tough steel which has a Quite good performance combined with chopping & cutting , INFI is a bad one ?

man you have right to suspect every thing , even the the earth is not a sphere, if there were a chart showing INFI IS TOUGHER THAN 3V , do you think it is real ?

i think you get a Prejudice on infi and busse , take it easy .

Jerry take the challenage , both Jerry and Dan will meet at 2016 bladeshow , that is great!

for fair of this competetion they will build a standard that both men are unainimous.

you just interested in steels ? i have a good example that why i more interested in knives other than steels and my way is more logical & better than your's , do you know the Crucible how to describe S30V ， especially when compare with ATS34?

i reality knives made of S30V is not tough , at least not tougher by lager margine than those knives that made of ATS34, both ats34 and s30v are in the same Category of toughness when made knives . that is the reality .

do you still want a chart ?

steel chart is a source that you can setting a reference , it is *meaning . but when you talk about making knife , steel chart are not Highly correlated.

besides toughness , there are other virtues are good for making a "tough" blade , such as strengh and edge apex stablity.

good luck man , hopes above inputs will make you easy.

 

[sodak]

sodak you are logical , but i think steel and blades different .

with 0.5% carbon content , INFI does not getting the retention that 3v has when talke about cutting & slicing clean media , that is what i guess.

think it another way , is INFI a poor one for cutting & slicing clean media? i do not think so.

think about a tough steel which has a Quite good performance combined with chopping & cutting , INFI is a bad one ?

man you have right to suspect every thing , even the the earth is not a sphere, if there were a chart showing INFI IS TOUGHER THAN 3V , do you think it is real ?

i think you get a Prejudice on infi and busse , take it easy .

Steel and knives are different, that's exactly my point. But when you make a knife, you have to start with a steel, correct? And it matters what steel you start with. As for prejudice, I have some Busse knives and like them, I've said that several times. That doesn't mean I believe everything that is said about them.

steel chart is a source that you can setting a reference , it is *meaning . but when you talk about making knife , steel chart are not Highly correlated.

besides toughness , there are other virtues are good for making a "tough" blade , such as strengh and edge apex stablity.

good luck man , hopes above inputs will make you easy.

Steel chart isn't highly correlated? With what? I'm not following you. Do you mean to say that you can make a knife out of 2 different steels and get the same performance? If that was true, we would only need one steel, right?

 

[bodog]

sodak you are logical , but i think steel and blades different .

with 0.5% carbon content , INFI does not getting the retention that 3v has when talke about cutting & slicing clean media , that is what i guess.

think it another way , is INFI a poor one for cutting & slicing clean media? i do not think so.

think about a tough steel which has a Quite good performance combined with chopping & cutting , INFI is a bad one ?

man you have right to suspect every thing , even the the earth is not a sphere, if there were a chart showing INFI IS TOUGHER THAN 3V , do you think it is real ?

i think you get a Prejudice on infi and busse , take it easy .

Jerry take the challenage , both Jerry and Dan will meet at 2016 bladeshow , that is great!

for fair of this competetion they will build a standard that both men are unainimous.

you just interested in steels ? i have a good example that why i more interested in knives other than steels and my way is more logical & better than your's , do you know the Crucible how to describe S30V ， especially when compare with ATS34?

i reality knives made of S30V is not tough , at least not tougher by lager margine than those knives that made of ATS34, both ats34 and s30v are in the same Category of toughness when made knives . that is the reality .

do you still want a chart ?

steel chart is a source that you can setting a reference , it is *meaning . but when you talk about making knife , steel chart are not Highly correlated.

besides toughness , there are other virtues are good for making a "tough" blade , such as strengh and edge apex stablity.

good luck man , hopes above inputs will make you easy.

I get where he's coming from. I don't think he's being unreasonable either. He's only asking for objective, scientific proof of what the steel can do compared to other steels. Whatever the outcome is doesn't matter. If it's more impact resistant, great, if it has lower wear resistance, great. Whatever.

Saying the steel sharpens itself in use is silly and there are a lot of people claiming that kind of horsecrap. If things like that were true then I'm sure he wouldn't be making knives, he'd be making money hand over fist selling huge amounts of the steel to the highest bidders. But there ARE claims from people saying such nonsense and Jerry isn't refuting those people. Sodak is saying prove it's better than this or that steel by subjecting it to real, rigorous testing like pretty much all other steels go through.

He's not saying people are wrong for liking it. He's skeptical that it's a magical steel like what so many people claim and that the brain behind the steel doesn't refute.

Personally I like Vanadis 4E. There are other steels that are tougher. There are steels more wear resistant. It doesn't matter whether anyone else agrees with me liking it or not. One thing I cannot do, though, is claim extraordinary magical powers of the steel because it can be studied and tested in whatever manner anyone wants. BU doesn't hold its ingredient list secret and I've never seen anyone claim magical powers for the steel but I'm sure if they did BU could say, no, it's just steel with certain properties that are good in certain applications. I think that's what Sodak is getting at.

 

[metal0321]

I think the OP was asking about knives. Even though steel is VERY relevant to knives, I think the finished product tested is more relevant...the materials and design combined. If someone agrees that INFI is tougher than 3V, then what good is seeing the industry standard test results. Those results would just prove it. Not saying that INFI is better but tougher. I'm sure someone here can confirm the source where I think Busse supplied some INFI to a custom maker once and he stated that when he tested the INFI for hardness (RC) the steel deformed in a way that was unusual, not containing any tiny stress fractures at very high hardness. Tough is tough.

But are there alternatives to Busse? If you love Busse and the way they look and feel then no. If you like Fehrman, Survive! or others made from 3V or some other great steel, then those are great alternatives. Are they gonna be as TOUGH as a Busse? Probably not. But even a knife of 3V or good 1095 is tougher than you will ever need.

 

[neal70]

in response to the op:dozier dozier dozier

 

[metal0321]

Jerry Busse never makes claims that his steel is "magical". Everything he states about his steel is factual. The "magical" comes from the Busse fanatics. I don't think Jerry Busse owes you guys anything.

 

[bodog]

Jerry Busse never makes claims that his steel is "magical". Everything he states about his steel is factual. The "magical" comes from the Busse fanatics. I don't think Jerry Busse owes you guys anything.

You're right, and no one said he did either. And you're right again, the fanatics are the ones who say it magically sharpens during use and can cut someone out of a prison cell without any damage whatsoever. And you're right a third time, Busse owes no one anything, but there's nothing wrong with inquiring minds, either.

 

[Gator97]

I wonder if we are talking past each other. What I would like to see are tests of the steel, not the knives. So I'm looking for the tests that the foundry/steel manufacturer does, not a performance test. While it's entertaining to see people doing cutting, chopping, prying, etc., it's the independent tests of the steel, not the knife, that I would like to see. You can find these values for just about any steel out there. A sample of the data is here, but it's all over the internet.

I see. Thanks for clarifying. Indeed, I did misunderstand your posts. I assumed you were referringto some sort of standardized knife performance tests, not charpy and such.

 

[Cobalt]

Who or what was/were the nearest competitor(s)? Please show the other parts of those pictures with the other tests.

(I could ask many questions here which could really get this "argument" rolling. Should I??? )

Well, at the time we all that it was Cold Steel since they were the first to do proof videos. All these pics had videos associated with them, not just a pic. The vids were widely shown at all the shows. As for the rest of it, I placed a few of the others from that page in previous post. As for posting the whole page, no.

I would love to see someone drive a 1/4 inch thick flat ground drop point knife into 1/2" thick steel with no damage. I would love to see a 3V blade do that.

 

[Cobalt]

I see. Thanks for clarifying. Indeed, I did misunderstand your posts. I assumed you were referringto some sort of standardized knife performance tests, not charpy and such.

I would love to see a charpy of INFI as well. But that steel is not an off the shelf steel and it is listed no where. It truly is proprietary to Busse

 

[metal0321]

You're right, and no one said he did either. And you're right again, the fanatics are the ones who say it magically sharpens during use and can cut someone out of a prison cell without any damage whatsoever. And you're right a third time, Busse owes no one anything, but there's nothing wrong with inquiring minds, either.

Absolutely, nothing wrong with inquiring minds, but it feels to me that Jerry B., whom I don't know at all personally, is being accused of dodging questions about the Charpy and whatnot. You (and not you personally) can't blame the guy for advertising the hell out of his knives, and he didn't start this squabble. There are lots of inquiring minds on here, and a lot of people squabbling, which I find very entertaining. That's why I'm following this thread so religiously. I just think it's a tad sh*()% to knock on the man who makes the knives, while he tries to encourage us to just enjoy knives as much as he does. And, it's not as if he has just put a really proper heat treat on a steel like 1095 or something to make it perform better than everyone else's, he's actually got his own formula that no one can duplicate. It's truly proprietary in elements and properties, and therefor can be called by any name he pleases whether it's been modified or not. It may not be the be-all-end-all of knife steels, but it's still pretty special.

 

[Czechmate]

I would love to see someone drive a 1/4 inch thick flat ground drop point knife into 1/2" thick steel with no damage. I would love to see a 3V blade do that.

If it was ground like a Busse thickness wise with similar edge geometry it'd probably be just fine LOL, especially if the plate is mild steel and annealed. How does a person "drive" the knife through; with a hammer?

Have you even used 3V? It's not fragile.

(Disclaimer: I've owned a few Busse's btw; all were excellent knives) :thumbup:

 

[Firestrike]

You guys argue about whatever you want, go buy whatever you want as well...I will continue to purchase and use Busse and Kin. Magical or not they are worth every penny to me. Even if there were tougher/stronger/sharper/more magical knives out there I would not buy them until Jerry made them. Busse has the look I like, has the class I like, and plain impress me every time I use or hold one. No other company has been able to put a knife in my hand that inspired me to be buried with, or to pass down to my kids except one, and that is Benchmade....but the second Busse starts making folders I will likely make the switch to Busse folder's as well. Not that I will never buy Benchmade again, but I NEED me some Busse folder's.

I think the magic of Infi is that some many people have seriously abused them, this is proven over and over with pics and videos, and in the years I have read BF and been a member, NO other knife company has had such a following of users who proove over and over again the strength of their companies knives. If I had to pick a runner up Becker seems to have some serious users in their group.

What I generally see is check out my new X Brand knife, look how it has never been used, this knife is tougher than other knives, I know how tough it is because I wield it from my recliner. Look how pretty it is, I saw one YouTube video of a guy using it once so my knife is better.

All I can say is I use ALL my knives, I have owned many, none have performed as well as Busse or Kin in my usage...you want to prove how awesome other knives are, then go forth and do some of the things Busse users have done, hell go forth and do what the Becker users have done...Until I see some good usage of other brands all I see is key board warriors, talking about arm chair wielding useless knives.

I got videos and pics showing actual personal usage, what you need to ask yourself is if you do...If so then please post em up so we can all see, until then please for the love of God, Shut Up!!!

 

[Aias]

Though this thread has strayed far from answering the OP--- Firestrike, :thumbup:

 

[Aias]

And here are a couple of pics from this past weekend... and the Hellrazor held its edge just fine:

 

[Cobalt]

If it was ground like a Busse thickness wise with similar edge geometry it'd probably be just fine LOL, especially if the plate is mild steel and annealed. How does a person "drive" the knife through; with a hammer?

Have you even used 3V? It's not fragile.

(Disclaimer: I've owned a few Busse's btw; all were excellent knives) :thumbup:

Actually the tips are not thick like a tanto and actually the SHBM has a better profile for cutting that a mora and most small knives because it is 1.9" wide:

 

[Velitrius]

What I generally see is check out my new X Brand knife, look how it has never been used, this knife is tougher than other knives, I know how tough it is because I wield it from my recliner. Look how pretty it is, I saw one YouTube video of a guy using it once so my knife is better.

All I can say is I use ALL my knives, I have owned many, none have performed as well as Busse or Kin in my usage...you want to prove how awesome other knives are, then go forth and do some of the things Busse users have done, hell go forth and do what the Becker users have done...Until I see some good usage of other brands all I see is key board warriors, talking about arm chair wielding useless knives.

I got videos and pics showing actual personal usage, what you need to ask yourself is if you do...If so then please post em up so we can all see, until then please for the love of God, Shut Up!!!

I'll do you one better, Firestrike... drive up the coast to WA and watch me hack stuff up.

You saying because I've never posted videos of me using my knives... that I don't use my knives? Wow. I also drive a Dodge pickup... you gonna call BS until I post a vid?

I'll agree with something somebody a few pages back said. Jerry doesn't have to prove anything. He says his knives are mission capable, great, I believe him. You say you beat the bejeezus out of your Busse stuff, I believe you.

But now I have to prove to you that my gear stands up to the mission I need it for? Uhhh... okay I guess. You want to come up and drink my beer while I clear the property, I'm buyin'. But to quote YOU... until then please for the love of God, Shut Up!! (Just wrote that so you could experience it for yourself )

OP just wanted to know if there's anything out there that compared to Busse. Apparently you say "no", because there's no video of all the rest of us doing anything outside a La-Z-Boy. That's fine. Not accurate by any stretch of the imagination, but it's your nickel.

 

[Cobalt]

Informative about what? I don't often vise and bend my blades.

Real world use my friend. Might be a novel idea to many collectors in here who don't actually use their knives. And if you think that vice and bending a blade has no purpose, then you have never taken a blade and used it hard and have it fail on you. It will tell you more about the knife than some charpy test. Real world facts. The charpy test will only confirm what I already knew.

This is one of the few places where paper facts are preferred over actual tool usage, lol. How ridiculous. I challenged someone on here to a cutting test with both of us present using our knives and maybe a few witnesses and he ran like a B!T(H.

I have yet to see cpm3V cut any rope on video or witnessed
I have yet to see cpm3V bend to any degree on video
I have yet to see cpm3V penetrate any steel on video

Busse has done all that. Who has proven what? Think again. There are Busse owners in many states. I am sure we have one near you 3V owners. And I can tell you they will use their knives harder than you ever dreamed of. So you want a challenge, why don't you challenge an INFI owner in your area.

 

[dingy]

Real world use my friend. Might be a novel idea to many collectors in here who don't actually use their knives. And if you think that vice and bending a blade has no purpose, then you have never taken a blade and used it hard and have it fail on you. It will tell you more about the knife than some charpy test. Real world facts. The charpy test will only confirm what I already knew.

bending ablity is very important merit for big choppers

 

[dingy]

Steel and knives are different, that's exactly my point. But when you make a knife, you have to start with a steel, correct? And it matters what steel you start with. As for prejudice, I have some Busse knives and like them, I've said that several times. That doesn't mean I believe everything that is said about them.



Steel chart isn't highly correlated? With what? I'm not following you. Do you mean to say that you can make a knife out of 2 different steels and get the same performance? If that was true, we would only need one steel, right?

i mean that steel charts are not Highly correlated to knife & knife perfermance.