Broken full flat ground during batoning

[shinyedges]

I'm just left curious if MIL A 12560 would make a good knife.

In the state we machine it, while it is much harder than non hardened steel it is soft for a knife, it rusts pretty quickly as well. Now a hawk head? Or something like an rmj shrike? Maybe?

High hard as we call it (46100) is potentially the better candidate but it's softer than good knives as well. I'm uneducated on how hard they potentially get though, I only interacted with them in the state ready to go on for ballistic and blast purpose which may not be the limit of how hard they get.

 

[VorpelSword]

Sure . . .to each his own . . .if it works for you . . . etc.

But its gotta be a pretty big knife, right? Something somewhat broad from edge to back, a bit stout in cross section and long enough to exceed the width of the lumber being processed . . .??

Most pf the fixed blade knives I have ever owned were either too small (say <5") or too "nice" for me to think of battening them into the end of a piece of firewood. I am pretty sure that doing so will void the warranty on many higher end knives.

In my youth, I worked for the Davy Tree company (early 1970s). We did a lot of straightforward tree pruning and removals. Sometimes a client would ask to have some of the cut down tree turned into firewood sized pieces. This was always an off the clock cash only transaction. I have split a good bit of wood, but used an ax, wedges and a maul to do it. New Orleans live oak is a tough wood, particularly if it has been dead on the stump for a while.

 

[Maximumbob54]

In the state we machine it, while it is much harder than non hardened steel it is soft for a knife, it rusts pretty quickly as well. Now a hawk head? Or something like an rmj shrike? Maybe?

High hard as we call it (46100) is potentially the better candidate but it's softer than good knives as well. I'm uneducated on how hard they potentially get though, I only interacted with them in the state ready to go on for ballistic and blast purpose which may not be the limit of how hard they get.

I'm sure some kind of knife specific heat treating would be needed. Just a thought since so many other knife steels started out a life of mediocrity only to be blessed by being made into a blade by someone at some point.

 

[Cementite]

A finger choil has a large enough radius not to be a stress riser, IMO.

Not to split hairs, but any discontinuity, no matter how small, can concentrate stress (and strain), leading to failure.

On a 2" diameter prop shaft on a boat, you could have nothing more than a graphite pencil line left on the monel prop shaft, but because graphite is more cathodic than anything else in the galvanic series, it'll eventually cause a microscopic line of corrosion there = stress riser that with repetitive strain (bending/vibration) will eventually cause microcracking, and once you have a crack, even if microscopic, it's all over, because cracks grow with fatigue. It's just a matter of time. Even in a 2" diameter prop shaft.

Yeah, jimping that has radii machined at the bottom of the grooves will focus stress (and strain) less than jimping with "v" shaped bottoms...but they're still stress risers.

 

[shinyedges]

Get a room!

Room number 43 see ya soon

 

[Gabtab]

he yo knife/Steel experts

i done nearly the same as B Bearzilla911 I broke an Knife with D2 Steel while doing batoning and have a question.. no not "why are the hell are you hitting a knive with an stick or hammer?" (i have an answer but here could be children online and they should not read it ;-) )

the knive brokes at the first jimping
On the breaking edge of me knife looks the steel strange for me. it looks for me, as a complete steel noob, like that the tip of the knife was burned out



It was an knive out of the small badge production run from russia (a lot of years ago produced)

cu Gabtab

 

[J. Doyle]

he yo knife/Steel experts

i done nearly the same as B Bearzilla911 I broke an Knife with D2 Steel while doing batoning and have a question.. no not "why are the hell are you hitting a knive with an stick or hammer?" (i have an answer but here could be children online and they should not read it ;-) )

the knive brokes at the first jimping
On the breaking edge of me knife looks the steel strange for me. it looks for me, as a complete steel noob, like that the tip of the knife was burned out



It was an knive out of the small badge production run from russia (a lot of years ago produced)

cu Gabtab

That discoloration on the edge break could mean there was a crack there for a while before it broke.

Additionally, to me, that grain structure doesn't look very good at all.

 

[jlauffer]

In Soviet Russia, knife batons you!

 

[Gabtab]

That discoloration on the edge break could mean there was a crack there for a while before it broke.

Additionally, to me, that grain structure doesn't look very good at all.

Thanks for your assessment. That was my assessment too, but I'm a complete steel noob, so I wanted to ask.
Then I'm glad that the knife broke when I didn't need it and I didn't hurt myself.

 

[The True North]

Okay now kiss

Thanks for your assessment. That was my assessment too, but I'm a complete steel noob, so I wanted to ask.
Then I'm glad that the knife broke when I didn't need it and I didn't hurt myself.

Grab a Becker or ESEE and just absolutely wail on it. You'll be impressed and you won't be able to go back.

 

[Drop bear]

My skrama goes through hard wood.

I am sure I will snap it eventually through.

 

[TC]

Not to split hairs, but any discontinuity, no matter how small, can concentrate stress (and strain), leading to failure.

On a 2" diameter prop shaft on a boat, you could have nothing more than a graphite pencil line left on the monel prop shaft, but because graphite is more cathodic than anything else in the galvanic series, it'll eventually cause a microscopic line of corrosion there = stress riser that with repetitive strain (bending/vibration) will eventually cause microcracking, and once you have a crack, even if microscopic, it's all over, because cracks grow with fatigue. It's just a matter of time. Even in a 2" diameter prop shaft.

Yeah, jimping that has radii machined at the bottom of the grooves will focus stress (and strain) less than jimping with "v" shaped bottoms...but they're still stress risers.

In the context of a knife, a finger choil of appr. 1" with properly chamfered edges etc. is not much of a stress riser in practice; though perhaps mathematically in theory. A narrow V-groove, repeated tenfold - aka jimping - is. And that is what I stated.

You should read the whole thread (skip the banter). You will see I discussed surface defects, crack formation and crack propagation.

In the meantime, you and anyone else still reading, may want to study the 3,000 odd pages of Physical Metallurgy, co-edited by one of my thesis advisors, the late, great Peter Haasen.

When the Internet Archive is back online, you can download all three volumes for free from here:

https://archive.org/details/PhysicalMetallurgy4EVOLUME1/Physical_Metallurgy_4E_VOLUME1/page/n401/mode/2up

Many happy hours of reading!

 

[Maximumbob54]

My skrama goes through hard wood.

I am sure I will snap it eventually through.

Good luck. I can send you a jar of Tiger balm if you think it will help your arm last long enough.

 

[EngrSorenson]

Good luck. I can send you a jar of Tiger balm if you think it will help your arm last long enough.

There’s been examples of Skramas breaking, but it’s so rare that I have written off as some other unintentional flaw.

 

[Maximumbob54]

There’s been examples of Skramas breaking, but it’s so rare that I have written off as some other unintentional flaw.

I used to give my 140 puukko absolute hell just to see how dumb you had to get. I broke before the knife. All the knife did was scuff up and look down on me with pity. I should buy another one.

 

[Drop bear]

Good luck. I can send you a jar of Tiger balm if you think it will help your arm last long enough.

I like to sit down when I chop wood.

 

[kvaughn]

I didn't read through all the responses but at 65+ years of hunting/paddling/woods running in multiple countries and states, I'd never seen any one baton with a knife, much less a good one until this forum.
This comes up here regularly.
Make a wooden wedge or get a hatchet.
Have the right tool for the job or make it.
It's not rocket surgery.

 

[EngrSorenson]

I didn't read through all the responses but at 65+ years of hunting/paddling/woods running in multiple countries and states, I'd never seen any one baton with a knife, much less a good one until this forum.
This comes up here regularly.
Make a wooden wedge or get a hatchet.
Have the right tool for the job or make it.
It's not rocket surgery.

I’m with you- I prefer and axe myself, but just because something’s been done one way forever doesn’t mean it’s the only way. Plenty of people are out there make knives that can accomplish these tasks. Times, they are a changing.

 

[eveled]

Nothing wrong with batoning wood. Here is how my daughter does it.


When I baton wood I use a froe. Right tool for the job and all.

Now to be fair some knives are very froe like and probably are fine to baton with. But they are not what I want to use for knife tasks.

 

[scdub]

Anybody know of a froe maker who uses MagnaCut?

That’s one of the funniest comments I’ve ever read here.

I’m really hoping you intended it to be funny.

It seems to me that some folks here might be talking past each other about using knives to baton, much like the discussion about radiuses above…

I think that most of us are on the “baton spectrum”. We recognize that a knife could be made that could be heavily used to baton daily, for decades, through knotty, hard wood, by the strongest man alive, using a wooden baton.

We also recognize that unfortunately our champion baton knife wouldn’t cut well and would be very heavy for it’s length.

There’s a wide spectrum of knives that aren’t “indestructible” but have great potential strength, and I’m a proponent of using your knife to baton “lightly”. Bigger, softer, tougher steel can take harder hits, and can easily break down a good sized log if used to take sections off the edges rather than beating the knife directly through the thickest part.

I don’t “wail on” or “beat” my knives, even the ones that could probably take it for years, because I carry them into the woods and rely on them.

If you like the idea of going car camping and beating your Becker until your hand is raw go for it, I’d just suggest you use a different knife while hiking, because eventually it’s possible that you could abuse your Becker so hard that it breaks.