Building Shelter without a Mora?

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"I do not have 1 inch thick callouses on my feet like natives so must wear footwear. On trails running shoes are ok if your ankles are strong off trail you are asking for broken ankles so I forbid shoes in my course, must be boots of some fashion. Twisted ankles and cuts are bad for my feet not boots. Where did you learn boots are bad for your feet? "

Broken ankles? Are you running through the woods blindfolded? Or are your ankles not strong enough to support your own body weight? I don't have 1 inch thick callouses on my feet. Boots and shoes are very confining on feet, they do not breath well, some don't at all (which would cause you major trouble in the winter). Just look at peoples feet, wearing shoes messes them. And being able to feel the ground to me is very important, it allows to keep your eyes off the ground because you "see with your feet", and you can move more quietly. If you're as experienced as you claim you would know that simple fact. Also for certain means of transportation in the bush, like in a canoe, mocs are very good to have on, because when you're standing it allows to balance better.


"I live in a winter climate and don't carry an axe unless its a very long trip and motor driven. A large light shovel is more important than an axe short term in winter."

A shovel over an axe? I'd rather have an axe. I assume your reason for the shovel is for a shelter, well with an axe I can build a better and warmer shelter. And if you're so experienced you could too. Well if you're trip isn't very long if it's motor driven, cause you need to haul gas and everything else with it, so that limits you right there. Long camping trip in winter with snow-toboggan, tent and wood stove.





"Swamp rat makes nice durable carving sized blades MUCH better quality than a mora. Change the bevel ."

I'm not going to pay that much and then have to change the bevel I'm good with my $9 mora.


"We agree on this point, however an axe of decent size to do such things is too heavy to carry and impractical for short term trips."

Well what is a short trip for you and what kind of trip? If it's -20 and you a going for a few nights, and are cold camping and have a very warm sleeping bag then fine, but if you're not then and axe would be very practical. See now I'm talking a survival situation, sounds like you're talking a camping trip, so maybe to you that is a survival situation


"They are correct but how many go out for a short trip hauling a full axe?"

Again it depends, if you're going overnight with only the clothes on your back then you're going to bring an axe, assuming it is cold.


"I am experienced and need no equipment to survive",

Really, you can go naked into the wilderness and live long term ( months at a time)? So then you've done that before? I'd like to hear about it, if you have.

"but unlike you apparently I understand the value of tools and the benefits of utilizing them. I have no intention of going native and make moccasins when I can buy good boots . "

I understand the value of tools very much so, you would learn that if you go without them, then when you come back to them a mora would seem like a luxury item, although i'm not that skilled yet. What does "going native mean"?



"Wool is wonderfull but heavy and warm in summer."

Ya, thank you for stating the obvious, I don't wear wool in the summer, except for some places where the weather changes very rapidly and is cold. No I'm not in the habit of wearing my wool pants in 80 degree weather. I normally just have a pair of shorts on.

6 months with natives isn't experience.
 
Is the goal of this thread to argue than if a cheap knife works that's what you should use? That's a stupid argument. If wilderness instructors/guides want to use Mora type blades for demonstrations and training, that's probably a good thing as it will necessarily focus on technique rather than the knife itself. However, in some of these posts where someone says something like, "I'm good with my $9 mora." The argument becomes one saying that a Mora is a "better" knife than a Swamp Rat, Becker, Fehrman, Randall or even the old Marine Ka-Bar, that is myopic. Without changing the bevel those knives are more capable wilderness blades.

I received two Mora knives the other day and I can't see what the deal is. They were inexpensive at $10.95 each, but they are also cheap, and I went with laminated blades. They have a nice edge and sharpening will be easy but don't expect me to bet my life on one if I have other options. If forced to choose, I'd take a Victorinox Rucksack or Trekker over a Mora. Sometimes a folder is a better knife.
 
Ok,

I am watching this thread closely, and want to make it clear that the sniping attitudes must cease or I will lock this thread. I probably will anyway soon.

Skammer did bring up a good point in these forums awhile back: everyone is passionate about their knife beliefs, whether here in the wilderness forum, or anywhere else in Bladeforums. And so many often take it as a personal offense when others disagree. It's almost like someone insulted someone else's son or daughter!

So, if everyone here can't continue to discuss this in an adult, mature fashion, this thread will close.
 
If I'm planning a big outdoor trip I always bring several blades including, a big knife. For shorter trips and every day carry, I have either a folder or smaller fixed blade with me. If I were ever in a survival situation, I would need to know how to use the tools I have with me. Most likely that tool is a smaller knife. A large blade has a lot of advantages, but for me it's not practical to carry with me daily. With practice and skill, one can perform a lot with a quality small fixed blade knife.
 
Brian Jones said:
Ok,
. . .
So, if everyone here can't continue to discuss this in an adult, mature fashion, this thread will close.
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Brian, well said. This should be the standard and should be the behavior.



The "big knife vs. smaller knife" debate has been going on for generations.

The "inexpensive knife vs. quality knife" is a new one for me. Whatever works for you, I guess.

My current "small knife" when backpacking is a Swamp Rat INFI Coot. I think this works only because I carry a good folding prunning saw, otherwise the GB Small Forest Axe would have to be there. Different conditions than Ohio, Mich., PA would possibly change my choices.

The Mora 2000 or one of my Helle's goes on car campouts 'cause they cut like crazy, and I'd be happy to have them in a survival situation rather than only any folding knife I own. (But I'd be happy to have my Manix rather than fingernails.)
 
Myakka said:
If I'm planning a big outdoor trip I always bring several blades including, a big knife. For shorter trips and every day carry, I have either a folder or smaller fixed blade with me. If I were ever in a survival situation, I would need to know how to use the tools I have with me.
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I guess this is what has suprized me the most on some of these replies. It seems that anyone interested in real survival or any survival expert would advocate the experience and versitility to make due with any type of blade. I would also think that most experienced individuals or "knife folks" would be prepared and carry a variety of blades not only for different purposes but for backup in the event of breakage or loss. I don't have a lot of "real" experience and haven't had the opportunity to spend several days in the backwoods living off the land. However, even on my day hikes or overnight excursions I always have several knives with me. Pocket folder always on my person, multi-tool and SAK in the backpack, a Helle or Frost Mora thrown in for good measure (they weigh nothing), always a belt knife of some sort (usually a smaller 12" HI AK Khukuri with a denim sheath cover to blend in and not look to obvious, or AFSK, or the Helle Odel, or some type of smaller knife). Usually throw a folder in the wife's first aid kit or the kids backpack just for extra measure. The added weight is negligible. The main reason for the smaller bladed belt knives is because most times where I go there are other people on the trail and you tend to get negative reactions when you have something like a 15" Khukuri hanging from your belt. I do always have something like this in the pack or do wear it on my belt when in more isolated areas or where I see a foreseable need. I don't think that I really "need" something like this but it just provides me with more comfort. I too search this forum for ideas on the "ultimate" survival knife but for myself I am trying gleen versitility and improvision under all situations with anything that may be available or present itself from the posts in the forums. Part of the reason that I asked the orginal question is that even though I always try to go prepared, you never know when you might have to improvise. That's why I don't want to limit myself to a big knife or little knife mentality. I want to survive with whatever I have but I don't think heading out into the wilderness with a little overkill is unreasonable either. Like I stated though I don't have a lot of real experience so maybe I am missing something. This is just my opinion. I also think that whether you have a Busse, Mora, Becker, or $10 knife from Wally World you should also have backups. Nothing is a sure thing. Any knife from $10 to $1000 can break or get lost.
 
Brian Jones said:
Ok,

I am watching this thread closely, and want to make it clear that the sniping attitudes must cease or I will lock this thread. I probably will anyway soon.

Skammer did bring up a good point in these forums awhile back: everyone is passionate about their knife beliefs, whether here in the wilderness forum, or anywhere else in Bladeforums. And so many often take it as a personal offense when others disagree. It's almost like someone insulted someone else's son or daughter!

So, if everyone here can't continue to discuss this in an adult, mature fashion, this thread will close.
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I fully agree with your position, but I also have managed to pick up quite a bit of very good info by sorting through the posts and picking and choosing. I value and appreciate everyones knowledgeable opinion and would definitley see the benefit of simply sticking to the topic at hand. Just my $0.02.
 
But I'd be happy to have my Manix rather than fingernails.
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Okay, if you are rating the Mora as a better blade than a Manix, I'll try to reopen my mind and give the Frosts Mora an honest try. That said, I have a number of folders with better ergonomics; even though it doesn't have a hinge to break and it won't close on your fingers, the Mora grip seems small and ill suited for just about anything.

A folder with a good saw and a locking straight blade is a very useful tool.
 
cleaner145 said:
I fully agree with your position, but I also have managed to pick up quite a bit of very good info by sorting through the posts and picking and choosing. I value and appreciate everyones knowledgeable opinion and would definitley see the benefit of simply sticking to the topic at hand. Just my $0.02.
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This is exactly why mature debate is healthy. We are all guilty from time to time in wanting our team to win.

Sifting through opinions is what public froums are all about. Doing it in a mature manner is something we all need to keep in the front of our minds.

Skam

Brian, mail me
 
Personally, I think it comes down to: a person will use what they are most comfortable with from their own experiences. I prefer sub-5" knives because I have found I can do everything I need with them and I don't like the added weight and unwieldiness of larger blades, and I find them to be more dangerous then a smaller blade, something I dont want or need. However, many say I am completely wrong and that a larger then 5" blade is a necessity, with around 7" being perfect.

I bet if you brought a native guy from the jungle up to a forest here in NJ and offered him a choice between an axe, a chainsaw, and his $5 machete that he used all his life, he would take the machete. That's because he is comfortable using it and it never failed him in the past.

I think after one learns the basics or so they need to use their own experiences to see what works for them. Some don't feel a cheap mora is enough and need a $500 custom knife, however there are plenty of people that have survived and thrived with a Mora as their only knife. Is one wrong? No, but they are both comfortable with what they are using, which is half the battle when you get lost in the wilderness 50 miles from civilization. If your not comfortable and start to worry then you loose focus and could make life threatning mistakes.
 
When I told that (most) of fennoscandia has a tradition that uses small knives and axes I was told to go looking for the local "native" peoples traditions of large knives by Scammer and Kliff Stump. Sorry boys, you are so far off that I'll not even laugh.

Your credibility just went to zero because you either don't know anything about geography or did not bother to read the posts.

The point is that you can "survive" (live is a much better term) with a small knife in the woods. It has been proven by practice long enough time (US was not created until 1500 years later). You are the new comers.

I don't mind anyone using a "large" knife, why should I? Just don't come telling me that it's better or can't be done any other way. There are enough examples to prove you wrong. So what?!

TLM
 
ras said:
Okay, if you are rating the Mora as a better blade than a Manix, I'll try to reopen my mind and give the Frosts Mora an honest try. That said, I have a number of folders with better ergonomics; even though it doesn't have a hinge to break and it won't close on your fingers, the Mora grip seems small and ill suited for just about anything.

A folder with a good saw and a locking straight blade is a very useful tool.
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I carry a Mora 2000 or a Helle, not the minimum "Mora" shown via the link. Mora is an area with several companies that make knives. The 2000 and the Helle's have larger diameter grips and thicker blades. I own a couple of the red, wood-handled Moras and find the handles uncomfortabe for me, although the sure take a sharp edge.
 
TLM said:
When I told that (most) of fennoscandia has a tradition that uses small knives and axes I was told to go looking for the local "native" peoples traditions of large knives by Scammer and Kliff Stump. Sorry boys, you are so far off that I'll not even laugh.

TLM
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You have an argument that I respect.

Name-calling does not strengthen arguments.
 
TLM said:
When I told that (most) of fennoscandia has a tradition that uses small knives and axes I was told to go looking for the local "native" peoples traditions of large knives by Scammer and Kliff Stump. Sorry boys, you are so far off that I'll not even laugh.

TLM
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TLM

I NEVER said one couldn't survive with just a small blade. Please quote me if I did. I pretty much said a large blade makes life easier is all.

Did the Sammi not use large blades? seems they did "the Leuku".
http://www.ragweedforge.com/FinnishKnifeCatalog.html

Nearly every indigenous peoples on the planet had a use if not a preference for a larger cutting implement. I fail to see your hostile point.

Shrugs? :confused:

Skam
 
Hello

This is my first post,I was just wondering if this thread is typical? I came here to learn and share,I gather this place is not for the newbies. I am 44 years old and have survived quite well through thick and thin. I do not not claim to be a SURVIVAL expert or teacher,but I can hold my own.

With that said,what are you all trying to survive?

I am new to to this internet survival stuff,so please forive my ignorance on the subject,I am just curious.

Onowa
 
Thomas Linton said:
Yup.

".137" thick"

Think small machete or large butcher knife -- not a prying tool.
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Bit thin but not small ;) .

Would make an ok chopper blade tho, Id think.

Skam
 
onowa said:
Hello

This is my first post,I was just wondering if this thread is typical? I came here to learn and share,I gather this place is not for the newbies. I am 44 years old and have survived quite well through thick and thin. I do not not claim to be a SURVIVAL expert or teacher,but I can hold my own.

With that said,what are you all trying to survive?

I am new to to this internet survival stuff,so please forive my ignorance on the subject,I am just curious.

Onowa
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Welcome.

Q: "[W]hat are you all trying to survive?"

A: Murphy, the noted optimist. (What "cannot" go wrong in the wilderness will go wrong.)


Every year, folks go into the wilderness ("hunt, fish, camp") and do not come out alive. Or they come out alive because they have the skills and resources - or luck - to stay alive until help finds them.

I view this forum as an opportunity to exchange information about skills and equipment that will better allow folks to survive without relying solely on luck. I try to use what I learn here and elsewhere to teach youth and adults and to help me come back when stuff happens.

Those skills and kit may also keep you alive when your car goes off the Interstate at 11:00 P.M. or when "Mother Nature" otherwise comes knocking -HARD.

Survival training/learning is strong on planning, proper mental attitude, and prioritizing -- strengths with much broader applications.

Again, welcome.
 
onowa said:
Hello

This is my first post,I was just wondering if this thread is typical? I came here to learn and share,I gather this place is not for the newbies. I am 44 years old and have survived quite well through thick and thin. I do not not claim to be a SURVIVAL expert or teacher,but I can hold my own.
With that said,what are you all trying to survive?
I am new to to this internet survival stuff,so please forive my ignorance on the subject,I am just curious.

Onowa
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Welcome Onowa.

This thread has touched some nerves and is not 100% particular to this forum. That said you the reader must sift through it all and believe what you will, buyer beware ;) .

My take is this froum is suposed to be widerness survival (not bushcraft) and all that it entails.

Could be wrong tho.

Skam
 
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