Busse knives really worth the bux ?

[soapboxpreacher]

True, but only those who drive Chevy's count. (Only joking, of course! Drop those flame throwers and step back, OK?! )



Not true...but of course it depends on the Busse models in question. Even heavily used straight handled Battle Mistresses will sell for way over double what they were new. Now something newer and more common...yes this may be true, depending on what it is and how hard it's been beaten.

ETA: See glockboy's post above mine. Enjoying the hell out of a Busse Basic series knife, and then getting an extra c-note above what was paid is pretty sweet, yes?

Depends how beat it is

 

[soapboxpreacher]

This is my personal take on it. Are Busses worth the cost no in my eyes they are not. Are Swamp Rats worth the cost yes in my eyes they are. I do not think a Busse is worth the cost difference over a Swamp Rat. I feel this way for one reason and one reason only in my eyes Swamp Rats are geared toward working knives and Busses are ment to look cool. For me I would take 52100 (SR101) over INFI any day of the week.


Again this is only the way I look at Busse knives.

I gotta agree...Swamps are really awesome for the money...just hard to time it right to get one...this pisses me off! This is why I dont have one. And I am not going to over pay to buy a new one off someone that has it!

52100...funny..it is SR101....but the funny part is that steel is used elsewhere and not that great in knives typically. It all goes back to heat treating! The magic!!!!!!!! What is INFI comparable too? Did Busse invent it or is he just treating another steel better?

 

[bdmicarta]

If I'm paying 3-4 times more for the knife, will I get a 3-4 times better knife ?

If the lower priced knives are meeting your needs then no, you will not get 3-4 times better knife. This is the law of diminishing returns and in no way represents any problems with the quality and value of B-knives. It works that way with most products you can buy. Similarly a Mercedes that costs 4 times as much as another car will not be 4 times as good, a Rolex that costs 4 times as much as ....

Relative value and worth are up to the purchaser. If you want the B-knife and you have the money to buy it, who is to say that YOU won't get more than 4 times the pride of ownership in buying it. You have to answer that for yourself. I have a Spyderco Para2 sprint and a Spyderco Tenacious. The Para2 sprint cost 4 times as much as the Tenacious but is not 4 times the knife. On the other hand I do get much more enjoyment out of carrying it, and I find that I can't respect the Tenacious very much because it was low priced.

 

[PatrickKnight]

I gotta agree...Swamps are really awesome for the money...just hard to time it right to get one...this pisses me off! This is why I dont have one. And I am not going to over pay to buy a new one off someone that has it!

52100...funny..it is SR101....but the funny part is that steel is used elsewhere and not that great in knives typically. It all goes back to heat treating! The magic!!!!!!!! What is INFI comparable too? Did Busse invent it or is he just treating another steel better?

INFI is rumored to be a modded A8 steel however the Busse gain refuses to tell what exactly it is. In most people eyes inculding my own it is no better or worse than 3V. In fact I think 3V holds an edge better and would take 3V over INFI any day. I have used other knives in 52100 and they have all been great, it really is just a great steel if treated right but having read a couple threads on a search it is a tricky steel to treat.

 

[Guyon]

INFI is rumored to be a modded A8 steel however the Busse gain refuses to tell what exactly it is.

This statement is inaccurate. The "formula" for INFI has been posted on BFC many times. Do a search.
Jerry has also posted about his heat treatment process. You have to do a little digging for that one.

 

[Dan57]

A $400 dollar knife will never give you four times the performance of a $100 knife. I have no idea why people always think it will.
Hopefully that just helped answer the OP's (I think everyone's forgotten about him) question. And maybe educate a few other people, too.

 

[Bigfattyt]

I gotta agree...Swamps are really awesome for the money...just hard to time it right to get one...this pisses me off! This is why I dont have one. And I am not going to over pay to buy a new one off someone that has it!

52100...funny..it is SR101....but the funny part is that steel is used elsewhere and not that great in knives typically. It all goes back to heat treating! The magic!!!!!!!! What is INFI comparable too? Did Busse invent it or is he just treating another steel better?

I don't know why you are pissed or can't get one. Unless you are trying to pick up one of the oldies, you can get the new models direct from the Swamp. Or you can get them, normally at about direct cost off the exchange here.

To answer your question, the reason that Busse and kin are so great is that they get the most out of the steel. Their treatment of 52100, D2, A2, S7, and a handfull of other steels is just plain top notch. (they have released several stainless models, including Elemax).

They are not just throwing steel in to an oven and giving the minimum soak, then tempering once. The heat treat tempering and cryo protocol for Infi is something like 3 days.

When i bought my original Mean Street A2 from Jerry ( and he was the one who answered the phone! ) for about $132.00? You bet your ass it was and still is worth it!! I have used and sorry to say abused this knife since then and its still the best I've ever had or have! Now are the prices getting way too in par with the cult following? IDK but I can't afford them anymore and i def can find good knives for far less money, with that said, i still love busses and if money wasn't a problem I would still buy them.

Have you priced that A2 Mean Street lately? I bet it is worth 3X what you paid for it, if not 4X, and that is after having used it for a long long time!

 

[Jaxx]

A $400 dollar knife will never give you four times the performance of a $100 knife. I have no idea why people always think it will.
Hopefully that just helped answer the OP's (I think everyone's forgotten about him) question. And maybe educate a few other people, too.

A $4 beer will never get you 4x more intoxicated than a $1 beer.
A $400 watch will never give you 4x the performance of a $100 watch.
A $2000 pistol will never give you 4x the performance of a $500 pistol.
An $80,000 all stock car will never give you 4x the performance of a $20,000 all stock car.

Surely we've all heard at least one of these arguments before...

I haven't forgotten the OP's question.

The OP asked if Busse's are worth the money. He didn't ask about diminishing returns, the value of a dollar in 2001, or if the name of the company owner was Gary Busey.

The problem seems to be that many here have forgotten that this is a KNIFE forum. If we all got by satisfied with only the cheapest (or least expensive) edged tools, most of us probably wouldn't spend much time here because any old knife at the Home Depot, Lowes, WalMart, Sears, etc. would do until it broke, and then we'd just go get another. Or maybe we'd just go grab a kitchen knife and use it wherever... But really, where's the fun in that? Bladeforums didn't find us, we found it.

So... We gather here with a common interest. Knives and other edged tools... What's good enough for one person might not satisfy the next for whatever reason. One man's trash is another's treasure, and so on. I like what I have, and no it isn't all Busse(kin)... And I don't regret buying any one of them, custom, production, whatever. Ya don't like them, so be it. At least with a Busse, you have a considerably better than average chance of getting all or most of your money back selling it right away if you decide that the one you just bought doesn't suit you...but surely Jerry's knives aren't the only ones that can.

The real truth is that everything is relative. What's great for me may suck for you. What I can afford, perhaps you cannot or don't want.
I would think that much like this country's current (mostly) two party political system might be to those who dig politics, life would surely be more boring to those of us who really like knives if there were only two main knife companies and very few independent knifemakers. Choices are good, yes?

To the OP: I can only offer this advice... Do your homework. Read up on any knife company/knifemaker and their products that interest you. Try to get your hands on one of each whether at a show, a store, or through a buddy or even fellow member here if you can. Handle it...does it feel right to you? Ask questions...are the answers in line with what you want or need? Like everything in life, only you will know what works best with you and your reasons to own them, and only you will know how much you are willing to spend to get that which does.

Good Hunting!

 

[elof_alv]

It really boils down to what you are going to spend (are able) on a knife and what you expect of it.

Are Busse knives really that expensive? Look at the Rockstead knives, their middle size folder sells at the price of the big Busse knives. How many threads have you seen hating their knives? I have not seen one thread bashing Hinderer knives yet!
What about Emerson knives the hype is even bigger than Busse's, and they don't use any special/mystique materials, their fit and finish leaves a lot to be desired...

Is INFI so much better than xyz steel? It is a set of properties and abilities that you look at, not everything that looks similar on paper is similar in real life.

The biggest difference between Esee and Busse is that if you write down the models, Esee line will have what, 10 models in 2-3 steels and Busse will have... no idea, lots of different models in different steels (and Jerry Busse's knives were being sold in the 80s?) which will allow people to choose the ones they like.
If you pick up one of the Esee knives between models 3-6 how much variation you will find in the handle and blade? Factory or after market handles, plain or serrated, swedged, recently stainless...
You take any of the flagship Busse knives, you get different blade thickness, you have choice of blade finish, penetrator tip, swedge, serration, ffg, saber, convex grinds, on some models choil/no choil... Different handle materials, different handle thickness, different finish...
Do I need to go on?
Not trying to say that Esee makes bad knives, just saying that you can't do the apple to orange comparison without specifying comparison parameters.

If you're happy to buy a production knife from your local camping store, fine. Just don't go trashing another knife just because it's outside of your budget.

I have some of the Busse & Kin knives I like, and there are a whole lot more that I don't like and will never buy. As simple as that.

I also have a few Esee, Becker, Gerber and many other brands...

It's your experience, do not try to tell me that you are right just because you are.
Very often people have different experiences with the same item... So much so when one person has not had a chance to get the item in question into his/her hands...

 

[shunsui]

I'd say it is really worth the bux to keep track of what Busse and kin are offering over time.

Not really sure what that's supposed to mean?

There is some debate on that. The Ferengi swear it means: "Buy low, sell high". The Klingons on the other hand say it means: "You snooze, you lose". Oddly enough the Romulans are silent on the issue, but rumor has it they're HUGE Mora fans.

 

[elof_alv]

Just to clarify, I have 1 Emerson, planning on getting another one, Hinderers and Rocksteads... are above my budget...

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

[really big quote]

Good post, dude. I totally agree there.

There is some debate on that. The Ferengi swear it means: "Buy low, sell high". The Klingons on the other hand say it means: "You snooze, you lose". Oddly enough the Romulans are silent on the issue, but rumor has it they're HUGE Mora fans.

I think that the Borg must be Mantis fans.

 

[AV8R]

I re-read the original post and can answer it. 3 to 4 times more performance for 3 to 4 times the price? NO. Gotta ask yourself, what's 3 to 4 times the performance anyway? An ESEE if a fine knife, especially for the money. I have a -4 and like it a lot. It's been my primary backpacking knife for the last couple years. The kydex is good, too. A similar sized Busse will perform a bit better. I had an Active Duty and an anorexic Badger and both were excellent knives. Both went to friends, one went to Iraq with the buyer. An example of better performance, went to the FL keys last week, opened a few coconuts with the ESEE, dulled the edge a bit. The AD or Badger would not have noticed 3 coconuts in any way. Is it a big deal? No, but that's about the difference you're looking at.

Okay, so why buy say, a $550 Busse over a $150 ESEE-6? I almost pulled the trigger on a ESEE6 used here on BF a couple months ago for $150. I DID buy a Busse ZT NOe clip point variant here last week for $550. The busse is setup very similar to a SH-e variant I used to have and I liked the way it felt, but it was too heavy for most of my uses. The ZT is 3/16" with a 6" blade, 11" overall. Should probably weigh the same as a Randall 14. I wanted the configuration. If an ESEE was setup exactly the same for $150, I would probably rather have it. If an ESEE was setup the same and was in the $300 range, I would rather have the Busse for $550. It is a better knife.

INFI, 3V, 52100, 1095.........INFI is not getting the credit it deserves here. For starters, Jerry Busse has stated many times that his goal is to build the best performing, toughest knife possible and he will use whatever steel proves best in that regard. If 3V was better, he would use it. I know that for a fact. Because he said so and I believe what he says. And I don't say that about many people. I have used all these steels. One poster reminded me that steel performance is multi-faceted. Really? After being a knife nut for 30 years, I didn't know that. Here's the deal. For the last 15 years or so, I have been willing to use ANY fixed blade that I have felt would deliver the absolute best performance, basically regardless of price. I have used a couple knives that I have spent in excess of $3000 on. I have used maybe 10 different knives in the $2000 range, I have tried hard to find the best performing $1000 range knife and have tried many. I am here to tell you that, for the purposes of an all around outdoors knife, an INFI Busse, comparably configured, will perform as well as or outperform any knife that you will find. I have never formally tested a knife, but here's my experience that makes me say that. This will be sure to piss everybody off equally, but it's what I found to be true. A Chris Reeve Project 1 or 2, doesn't hold an edge at all. The steel is too soft. A Hartsfield can't hardly be resharpened in the field. 3V holds a slightly better edge than INFI, but you can't hardly sharpen it and it's not as tough, S30V has never held a decent edge for me on any knife. Steels I have used that I like as well as INFI have been high carbon steels forged by Winkler or Don Fogg or Tim Zowada. 5160 seems to work out real well sometimes. I have never used any forged 52100 that held a great edge for me. I've felt that certain D2 knives have been very good in medium blade lengths. Lile and Dozier. A fixed blade for all around outdoor use needs to be able to withstand some prying. You need to be able to wash it. It needs to hold an edge, because you don't sit around sharpening your knife every day. It cannot break. If it's prone to rust and not coated, it will spot and rust to holy hell, unless you're in a desert environment. Especially in a leather sheath. Small handles suck. Choils suck unless they're plenty roomy to choke up on the knife, in which case they can add much usefulness and they are very worth it. You need a point, but a point that will not bend or break. It needs some sort of a guard. A single guard with a roomy choil makes a large fixed blade into something you can choke up on and can perform the tasks on a smaller knife.

For me, a full tang, thinner stock, coated, micarta handled Busse with a 4 to 6 inch blade, a good tip and a roomy choil will perform as good or better as an all around outdoor knife, as any knife that I have found. That being said, $550 is cheap. My advice if you want performance is, go for configuration first and when you get the configuration that suits you best, find the highest quality knife you can, that is set up that way. You'll spend more than $150, but less than a lot of Randalls and less than almost all customs. There's a lot more to it than "Busse vs ESEE" or $150 vs $550. You can't peak out on performance for $150. But if you can't do it for $550, you probably can't do it for $2550.

Pete

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

One poster reminded me that steel performance is multi-faceted. Really? After being a knife nut for 30 years, I didn't know that.

Sorry if I offended your sensibilities, but I don't think the sarcasm is necessary. You raised the point that you had never heard anyone ask "Is INFI as good as ____?" and I commented that I HAD heard people question its comparative performance in the areas of corrosion resistance and edge retention. You were trying to raise a point of "undisputed superiority" and that's certainly not the case. It provides, like most steels, a balance of compromise between various categories of performance. So it may be the best thing out there in the toughness department, but if someone has need for a steel with a high degree of corrosion resistance or massive edge retention then another steel may be a better choice. It may be able to provide superior performance in one category and quite decent performance in others, but that doesn't mean that there aren't any steels that outperform it in one category or another, and some folks have a different set of requirements depending on their typical environment and uses. So the blanket statement just didn't fit. In the example you provided regarding ammunition you were isolating a single aspect of performance, and so the comparison is misleading. I was just pointing out that it's not that cut and dried.

Here's the deal. For the last 15 years or so, I have been willing to use ANY fixed blade that I have felt would deliver the absolute best performance, basically regardless of price. I have used a couple knives that I have spent in excess of $3000 on. I have used maybe 10 different knives in the $2000 range, I have tried hard to find the best performing $1000 range knife and have tried many. I am here to tell you that, for the purposes of an all around outdoors knife, an INFI Busse, comparably configured, will perform as well as or outperform any knife that you will find. I have never formally tested a knife, but here's my experience that makes me say that. This will be sure to piss everybody off equally, but it's what I found to be true. A Chris Reeve Project 1 or 2, doesn't hold an edge at all. The steel is too soft. A Hartsfield can't hardly be resharpened in the field. 3V holds a slightly better edge than INFI, but you can't hardly sharpen it and it's not as tough, S30V has never held a decent edge for me on any knife. Steels I have used that I like as well as INFI have been high carbon steels forged by Winkler or Don Fogg or Tim Zowada. 5160 seems to work out real well sometimes. I have never used any forged 52100 that held a great edge for me. I've felt that certain D2 knives have been very good in medium blade lengths. Lile and Dozier. A fixed blade for all around outdoor use needs to be able to withstand some prying. You need to be able to wash it. It needs to hold an edge, because you don't sit around sharpening your knife every day. It cannot break. If it's prone to rust and not coated, it will spot and rust to holy hell, unless you're in a desert environment. Especially in a leather sheath. Small handles suck. Choils suck unless they're plenty roomy to choke up on the knife, in which case they can add much usefulness and they are very worth it. You need a point, but a point that will not bend or break. It needs some sort of a guard. A single guard with a roomy choil makes a large fixed blade into something you can choke up on and can perform the tasks on a smaller knife.

For me, a full tang, thinner stock, coated, micarta handled Busse with a 4 to 6 inch blade, a good tip and a roomy choil will perform as good or better as an all around outdoor knife, as any knife that I have found. That being said, $550 is cheap. My advice if you want performance is, go for configuration first and when you get the configuration that suits you best, find the highest quality knife you can, that is set up that way. You'll spend more than $150, but less than a lot of Randalls and less than almost all customs. There's a lot more to it than "Busse vs ESEE" or $150 vs $550. You can't peak out on performance for $150. But if you can't do it for $550, you probably can't do it for $2550.

Pete

Again, this just proves that it matches your set of requirements best. For a big chopper I go with a machete and they're easy to sharpen and I've had no trouble with edge retention. My approach is obviously very different from yours and so I have a different set of requirements. I could get by just fine in the woods with a well-made machete and a small fixed blade or folder. So once more it's a case of whether or not the array of features and benefits provided by the design, materials, and execution of a particular tool are aligned with your needs, preferences, and budget.

 

[AV8R]

42:

Good points and nothing personal intended. I specified my opinions with regard to an all around outdoors / field knife. I compared to .45 ACP as a way to state that, all factors considered, INFI can't be beat for the application, even though it doesn't top all categories or even 1 category. 45 falls short in mag capacity, penetration, other areas, but overall sets the standard by which others are judged. In the opinion of many and in my opinion. I love .357, but it's a revolver cartridge, so apples and oranges. Again, no personal offense intended, I'd rather this discussion stay on track with regards to OP's topic

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

42:

Good points and nothing personal intended. I specified my opinions with regard to an all around outdoors / field knife. I compared to .45 ACP as a way to state that, all factors considered, INFI can't be beat for the application, even though it doesn't top all categories or even 1 category. 45 falls short in mag capacity, penetration, other areas, but overall sets the standard by which others are judged. In the opinion of many and in my opinion. I love .357, but it's a revolver cartridge, so apples and oranges. Again, no personal offense intended, I'd rather this discussion stay on track with regards to OP's topic

Cool beans dude--I get where you're coming from. It's all good. :thumbup:

 

[Dan57]

A $4 beer will never get you 4x more intoxicated than a $1 beer.
A $400 watch will never give you 4x the performance of a $100 watch.
A $2000 pistol will never give you 4x the performance of a $500 pistol.
An $80,000 all stock car will never give you 4x the performance of a $20,000 all stock car.

Surely we've all heard at least one of these arguments before...

I haven't forgotten the OP's question.

The OP asked if Busse's are worth the money. He didn't ask about diminishing returns, the value of a dollar in 2001, or if the name of the company owner was Gary Busey.

The problem seems to be that many here have forgotten that this is a KNIFE forum. If we all got by satisfied with only the cheapest (or least expensive) edged tools, most of us probably wouldn't spend much time here because any old knife at the Home Depot, Lowes, WalMart, Sears, etc. would do until it broke, and then we'd just go get another. Or maybe we'd just go grab a kitchen knife and use it wherever... But really, where's the fun in that? Bladeforums didn't find us, we found it.

So... We gather here with a common interest. Knives and other edged tools... What's good enough for one person might not satisfy the next for whatever reason. One man's trash is another's treasure, and so on. I like what I have, and no it isn't all Busse(kin)... And I don't regret buying any one of them, custom, production, whatever. Ya don't like them, so be it. At least with a Busse, you have a considerably better than average chance of getting all or most of your money back selling it right away if you decide that the one you just bought doesn't suit you...but surely Jerry's knives aren't the only ones that can.

The real truth is that everything is relative. What's great for me may suck for you. What I can afford, perhaps you cannot or don't want.
I would think that much like this country's current (mostly) two party political system might be to those who dig politics, life would surely be more boring to those of us who really like knives if there were only two main knife companies and very few independent knifemakers. Choices are good, yes?

No argument here. My post was more in defense of Busse than anything else; it explained why you can't call a knife a bad value or a waste of money because it doesn't give four times the performance of a knife that's four times less expensive. Though , it could also be applied to pretty much every other knife mentioned around here seeing as a $100 ESEE won't give nearly four times the performance of a $25 Mora. There were a few people in this topic who expected expensive knives to do just that, and the law of diminishing returns explains why that's nearly impossible. I think you misunderstood me.

 

[Fanglekai]

A $4 beer will never get you 4x more intoxicated than a $1 beer.

Off topic but you must not be into craft beer. High quality craft beers like double, triple or quad ales, double or imperial IPAs or imperial stouts can easily hit 11% abv, whereas Bud light and other light macro brews are 4.1% abv. Regular Budweiser and Coors are 5% abv. The only cheap way to get into high abv beer is with "malt liquor", but those taste awful, whereas craft brews usually don't. One of my favorite beers is Gouden Carolus Cuvee van de keiser blauw at 11% abv. Runs about $10 a bottle here for 750ml. It's worth every penny and then some.

So, with beer you really do get a much better product when you pay more, but there are times when I want that cheap Budweiser, like when it's far too hot out to be drinking IPA or stout.

Then again, if you drink 4 cheap beers that's more alcohol than one $4 beer, but you didn't word it that way

Back on topic, everyone should buy what they like and let others do the same.

 

[Bowxpress]

Back to the question "are Busse knives worth the bux"--- In my opinion, NO.. I love the feel of some, and I really think a few are absolutely stunning, and when you own some, it really is harder to let one go than another brand... that being said.. anyone can test infi vs sr101, being almost identical blades in every shape and geometry with the model S5----the only thing infi has over 101 is corrosion resistance, and maybe breaking but you would really really have to try hard to break either one, I did a test with 5 different of each blades, stabbing steel drums, cutting dirty rope, clean ropes, game, metal cans, you name it, and time after time 101 would long out due infi in being able to cut things, each and every time, the price hike over 101 just is not valid for performance in mind, now for name sake or collector purposes, then yes its value is fair.

I personally use 3V in the field,and for me it is the very best of everything I need, too bad the RMD isn't in 3V, that blade just feels right and never gets old.

 

[PatrickKnight]

Back to the question "are Busse knives worth the bux"--- In my opinion, NO.. I love the feel of some, and I really think a few are absolutely stunning, and when you own some, it really is harder to let one go than another brand... that being said.. anyone can test infi vs sr101, being almost identical blades in every shape and geometry with the model S5----the only thing infi has over 101 is corrosion resistance, and maybe breaking but you would really really have to try hard to break either one, I did a test with 5 different of each blades, stabbing steel drums, cutting dirty rope, clean ropes, game, metal cans, you name it, and time after time 101 would long out due infi in being able to cut things, each and every time, the price hike over 101 just is not valid for performance in mind, now for name sake or collector purposes, then yes its value is fair.

I personally use 3V in the field,and for me it is the very best of everything I need, too bad the RMD isn't in 3V, that blade just feels right and never gets old.

I am with you on this as I much prefer 3V and SR101 to INFI. That being said I do like how INFI is just as tough as 3V while it doesnt hold an edge as long it is much easier to sharpen which to me is a plus. I would also take SR101 over either because I think the only thing it gives up to either of these steels is that it does rust pretty easy, which is why I love that most Swamp Rats are coated blades and with even the slightest amount of care to the blade that becomes a mute point.

I do think you pay more for a Busse blade in part to the steel that is used simply because it is the flagship steel. I think of it this way a BMW 5 series is just as nice as the 7 but you pay more for the 7 due to it being the flagship.